Do we have a dirty trick handbook?

[ZeroSum]

Maybe in the real world, but in D&D it's 150' the first round and 300' each subsequent round:

Minimum Forward Speed

If a flying creature fails to maintain its minimum forward speed, it must land at the end of its movement. If it is too high above the ground to land, it falls straight down, descending 150 feet in the first round of fallingOtherwise it falls another 300 feet. If it hits the ground, it takes falling damage. Otherwise, it has another chance to recover on its next turn.

[AndyJames]

My numbers do not take into account air resistance But I agree. Those numbers are pretty much toilet paper territory.

[JaronK]

Well, they're how the world works.  I think a mile is 6k feet in D&D too.

So yeah, physics aren't quite normal there, but I like that.  I mean, think about it... in a world based on mideival fantasy (mostly), shouldn't modern physics not apply?

JaronK

[AndyJames]

Umm... Modern or not, physics is physics. Time should have no bearing on it, just the complete (or lack thereof) understanding of it

[ZeroSum]

d=(1/2)at^2, a~32ft/s^2, t=6s, (1/2)at^2~576 feet, discounting air resistance, by the way (for the first round).

And terminal velocity for a skydiver is about 180 ft/s or almost 1100 ft/round.  So for terminal velocity to be 50ft/s, gravity would have to be about 0.28g_Earth (since terminal velocity is proportional to g).

So dropping down 10' would take you 1.5 seconds in D&D-world as opposed to the 0.8s it takes now.  (At this speed, air resistance is negligible.)

Yeah, physics and fantasy -- the designers went with simple rather than correct.

[JaronK]

It's fantasy.  Physics shouldn't work the same in a fantasy based off older understandings of the world.  After all, volcanoes happen not because of plate techtonics, but rather because of angry gods (or, you know, bored Druids).  Creatures don't evolve, a Wizard makes them.  Whole doctrines of science simply don't exist in D&D, mostly the ones invented later.

In a fantasy based off the 50s, I would expect the best computers to be utilizing really powerful vaccum tubes (yay Fallout).

JaronK

[AndyJames]

Volcanoes do occur because of plate tectonics. It's just that gods tend to be more active than plate tectonics

One does not have to be mutually exclusive of the other, is what I am saying.

[Kuroimaken]

Generally yes (including the rules for how fast you fall), though also that fact that in infinite planes with normal gravity you're not crushed by the weight of the air above you indicates that something is not normal with gravity, too.

You mean like WE aren't crushed by the weight of the air above us? Air has generally negligible weight or a mass spread thin enough that gravity doesn't kick in very hard.

As for terminal velocity: how about re-creating atmospheric entry? The air would eventually all burn up, and then we'd have fiery cannonballs rather than regular cannonballs.

[Negative Zero]

Actually, Kuroi, you're wrong on that point. Air actually has a huge amount of pressure on us vertically. A five-foot square of ground has about 17 metric tons of air pressing down on it. It just so happens that humans can survive this pressure. This is from the finite air on the planet Earth. In an infinite plane, with presumably infinite air, there would be infinite weight if there were any gravity.

The weight is generally irrelevant because the lava, like water, will flow around a fixed point and take the path of least resistance, like the air around the target. It would have to be extremely viscuous before weight has any effect.

Lava is very viscous, though. Lava has about 100,000 times the resistance to flow that water has. While the damage would be middling compared to the sheer heat of the lava, it would probably do some amount of bludgeoning damage.

[AndyJames]

The assumption that there is infinite air may not be correct.

[Kuroimaken]

The assumption that the plane is infinite might not be, either.

[Negative Zero]

Well, the books tell us that the planes are infinite. As for air, that's up for debate. I would think that the Elemental Plane of Air has infinite air, because if not, it would diffuse into the vacuum until it was too thin to breathe.

[AndyJames]

Lava is very viscous, though. Lava has about 100,000 times the resistance to flow that water has. While the damage would be middling compared to the sheer heat of the lava, it would probably do some amount of bludgeoning damage.

It actually depends on the composition of the lava. There are extremely running ones (almost like water) to very viscuous ones (almost too viscuous to move). For a waterfall-type of lava, I would surmise it to be the runny type as the viscuous variants would be more clump-like drops than a waterfall.

[PhaedrusXY]

Generally yes (including the rules for how fast you fall), though also that fact that in infinite planes with normal gravity you're not crushed by the weight of the air above you indicates that something is not normal with gravity, too.

You mean like WE aren't crushed by the weight of the air above us? Air has generally negligible weight or a mass spread thin enough that gravity doesn't kick in very hard.

We are constantly "crushed" by air. That's what air pressure is. We're just adapted to survive the amount of pressure typically encountered at the earth's surface, and don't notice it.

[AndyJames]

Well, the books tell us that the planes are infinite. As for air, that's up for debate. I would think that the Elemental Plane of Air has infinite air, because if not, it would diffuse into the vacuum until it was too thin to breathe.

It has infinite air, but no gravity. Thus, no air pressure due to gravity. If the air density is the same as on Earth (and by no means is there any indications otherwise), then we are safe on that regard also.

[Negative Zero]

Yeah. I was just using that as an example for there being planes with infinite air.

[AndyJames]

You need both infinite air and gravity. Otherwise, it proves nothing

[CountArioch]

Yeah, I think the subjective gravity of the air elemental plane kind of throws a wrench in any contemporary physics equations.

I mean, how do you calculate air pressure when you can just imagine "down" being in literally any direction and falling that way?

I just hand-wave that, I'm sure I can think of some pseudo-scientific bullshit term, but I'd rather not.

Oh, and I rule that you don't "swim" in lava.  You can walk around on it as difficult terrain.  I don't know how this pans out, but it seems that the specific gravity of molten rock is so great that a human that has much, much less would just walk around on the surface.

[Kuroimaken]

LESS PHYSICS, MORE GAME-BREAKING!

[SorO_Lost]

Aye.
Umm. *looks around for dirty tricks*.

Necropolition warblades with a life-drinker? Nah, two negative levels per attack with RM & TSS is not good enough.

An ethereal jaunt spamming gish with an ethereal reaver for a no downside 50% miss chance? No, still not good enough.

Starmantle Cloak & Evasion? Too well known...

Permanent invisibility on a cockring of arming so it won't be found but can be donned to rearm your self? Handy but that is about it.

Claiming Negating armor can be owned by nonepic PCs because it's only a +5 enchantment to remove enchantments of a foe's uber weapon? Not exactly secret...

Bag-o-black-sand for fast healing? Meh.

Shrink item cheese? Candles of invocation for djinns for rings of wishes? Dust of sneezing and choking? All of them are to simple.

Wait, I know.
Shadow Stride/Jaunt/Blink + Battle Jump + Pounce = Three full attacks in a single round.
Just appear above the target and fall...