Author Topic: Critique my attempt at something odd  (Read 2553 times)

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Arcane-surge

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Critique my attempt at something odd
« on: October 14, 2008, 02:36:09 AM »
I love playing spellcasters. Love it. Battlefield control, sneak attack wizards, clerics, druids...However, they tend to be a little too effective sometimes. A buddy of mine is making his first go at DMing in a while, so I thought I'd try something that wouldn't tend to be so...Overwhelming.

So I thought for a while, and realized that there were two things I always wanted to try. Warlock, and Incarnum. Since I like playing doubly classes, I thoght about the best way to mix these, and this is what I came up with.

There are some house rules:
[spoiler]
Feats are gained at first and every even level after that.

Every class gives two more skill points than it normally would.

The 4th ed style Death and Dying rules from that web article.

No multiclassing penalties.
[/spoiler]

Books allowed are any 3.5 WotC book, feats and ACFs from Dragon/Dungeon.
Variant rules in play are Flaws and Traits from Unearthed Arcana.
Starting level, I'm not sure, but low. Probably one.

Here's what I've got so far: (This operates on the assumption that Strongheart Vest mitigates Hellfire Blast, which is cool).
----------------Warlock Incarnate (New Feats)----------
Aggressive Trait, Passionate Trait (Flaws: Noncombatant, Vulnerable) - Chaotic Neutral
Azurin [MoI] Str 13, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 15
1 - Totemist [MoI] - Able Learner [RoD], Least Dragonmark (Healing) [EbCS], Protective Mark [DMrk], Mortalbane [BoVD]
2 - Incarnate [MoI] - Expanded Soulmeld Capacity [MoI]
3 - Totemist
4 - Warlock [CArc] - Flexible Mind [Dr326] (Diplomacy, Heal) (Entropic Warding)
5 - Warlock (See the Unseen)
6 - Nosomatic Chirurgeon [DMrk] - Incarnum Spellshaping [MoI]
7 - Soulcaster [MoI] (Baleful Utterance or Serpent's Tongue)
8 - Soulcaster - Bonus Essentia [MoI]
9 - Soulcaster (Brimstone Blast)
10 -Hellfire Warlock [FC1] - Flyby Attack [MM]
11 -Hellfire Warlock (Fell Flight) 
12 -Hellfire Warlock - Extra Invocation [CArc] or Double Chakra [MoI]
13 -Soulcaster (Charm)
14 -Mindbender [CArc] - Mindsight [LoM] (Vitriolic Blast)
15 -Soulcaster
16 -Soulcaster - Extra Invocation (Eldritch Chain) (Chilling Tentacles)
17 -Soulcaster
18 -Soulcaster - Extra Invocation (Walk Unseen, Dead Walk, or Curse of Despair) (Devil's Whispers)
19 -Soulcaster (Utterdark Blast)
20 -Soulcaster - Extra Invocation (Nightmares Made Real)

Abbreviation key:
[spoiler]
[CArc]: Complete Arcane, [MoI]: Magic of Incarnum, [LoM]: Lords of Madness, [DMrk]: Dragonmarked, [EbCS]: Eberron Campaign Setting, [BoVD]: Book of Vile Darkness, [MM]: Monster Manual, [Dr326]: Dragon issue #326 (also available in Crystalkeep's feat index), and [RoD]: Races of Destiny.
[/spoiler]

Soulcaster progresses Incarnate, mostly for the extra essentia. Nosomatic Chirurgeon sneaks me into Soulcaster (barely, I know). I was planning to use Embrace/Shun Dark Chaos to swap out Protective Mark (I like the idea of having DR 5/magic at early levels, but it's rapidly going to lose its usefulness) and maybe Flexible Mind (though it doesn't feel right, because I'm using it to meet some prereqs) later.

The idea behind the build is to use Dissolving Spittle as my primary attack at lower levels, and then Hellfire Blast later, using soulmelds for utility and to augment my skills.

Questions:
1) What soulmelds would be helpful at various levels? I've read MoI several times, and the Incarnum handbook, but since I've never actually played a meldshaper, I'm interested in feedback from people who know what they're doing. I was thinking of using dissolving spittle and lucky dice (switching to Incarnate Avatar when I get more essentia).
2) Are my invocation choices good? Some of them are obviously essential (Vitriolic Blast, things meeting pre-reqs...). Again, I've read the handbooks, but I've never seen how they play out.
3) Do you have any general suggestions? I'm spending a lot of later feats on Extra Invocation, mostly because I couldn't really think of anything else to take, and I like invocations (they're shiny). Also, I have a few items in mind for later, but I'm interested in hearing about good stuff.
4) Does having a Dragonmark give you the Dragonblood subtype? I don't think so, but here's hoping. I like some of those Draconic soulmelds, not sure if I want to spend a feat on it, though I could.

The goal is to be effective and interesting without being gamebreaking, so that my GM doesn't have to worry about wishes and miracles and whatnot, and yet I don't have to rein myself in in-character.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 03:37:46 AM by Arcane-surge »
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Operation Shoestring

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Re: Critique my attempt at something odd
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2008, 03:25:41 AM »
What books are these from?  I don't recognize some of these.

One of my friends ran an incarnum-centric campaign.  he noted that Incarnum classes seem to be able to get pretty high touch AC's, which might make them useful for countering Mages that like that sort of thing.  He also noted that Incarnum is notably weaker than Arcane or divine magic, but you knew that already.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Critique my attempt at something odd
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2008, 12:17:55 PM »
Quote
Questions:
1) What soulmelds would be helpful at various levels? I've read MoI several times, and the Incarnum handbook, but since I've never actually played a meldshaper, I'm interested in feedback from people who know what they're doing. I was thinking of using dissolving spittle and lucky dice (switching to Incarnate Avatar when I get more essentia).

Other than the improved skill points, your Totemist levels are being wasted. Incarnate 3 would be more optimal, as you wouldn't lose out on 2 MLs and the benefits they bring. Your Expanded Soulmeld Capacity from Incarnate only affects Incarnate soulmelds, and you can't mix and match soulmelds/chakra binds. Totemist 2/Warlock 3/Soulcaster 5/Ur-Priest 2/Sapphire Hierarch 4/Eldritch Disciple 4 would be vastly superior, but you are trying to hold back. In that instance, Incarnate 3/Warlock 4/Soulcaster 10/Hellfire Warlock 3 would be better.
 
Quote
2) Are my invocation choices good? Some of them are obviously essential (Vitriolic Blast, things meeting pre-reqs...). Again, I've read the handbooks, but I've never seen how they play out.

Not too good with Warlocks myself, but Incarnum Blast is only good if you metagame the alignment.

Quote
3) Do you have any general suggestions? I'm spending a lot of later feats on Extra Invocation, mostly because I couldn't really think of anything else to take, and I like invocations (they're shiny). Also, I have a few items in mind for later, but I'm interested in hearing about good stuff.

Mortalbane is bad late-game. Sanctify SLA is considered better due to it affecting Outsiders and Undead, two of the most common enemy types. You are also doing an Eberron game from the looks of things, which means plenty of potental to run into undead, so Mortalbane may be the wrong choice. Speaking of Eberron, you do know that the Dragonmark Feats have a racial requirement, and that Azurin does not meet the requirements for House Jorasco's mark?

Quote
4) Does having a Dragonmark give you the Dragonblood subtype? I don't think so, but here's hoping. I like some of those Draconic soulmelds, not sure if I want to spend a feat on it, though I could.

The goal is to be effective and interesting without being gamebreaking, so that my GM doesn't have to worry about wishes and miracles and whatnot, and yet I don't have to rein myself in in-character.

Dragonmarks do not give the Dragonblood subtype. You are beter off going Dragonborn for that though.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Arcane-surge

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Re: Critique my attempt at something odd
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2008, 01:00:48 PM »
It's actually homebrew, which is why I can take the Dragonmark while being an Azurin.
Also, I wanted the Totemist not just for the skillpoints, but because it'd give me three soulmelds for utility, plus a totem bind. I don't ever get up to the Expanded Essentia Capacity class ability with Incarnate (unless I somehow muster that from progressing with Soulcaster, but I don't think so.
Where is Sanctify SLA from? BoED has Consecrate SLA, but that's it. And thanks for the tip on Incarnum Blast. It's worth picking up just for the increased damage. The dazing is nice, too.
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Critique my attempt at something odd
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2008, 10:39:56 PM »
It's actually homebrew, which is why I can take the Dragonmark while being an Azurin.
Also, I wanted the Totemist not just for the skillpoints, but because it'd give me three soulmelds for utility, plus a totem bind. I don't ever get up to the Expanded Essentia Capacity class ability with Incarnate (unless I somehow muster that from progressing with Soulcaster, but I don't think so.
Where is Sanctify SLA from? BoED has Consecrate SLA, but that's it. And thanks for the tip on Incarnum Blast. It's worth picking up just for the increased damage. The dazing is nice, too.

Sorry, I mis-quoted the BoED. Sactnify SLA doesn't exist, the feat I am thinking of is Consecrate.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Arcane-surge

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Re: Critique my attempt at something odd
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2008, 12:42:06 AM »
A question Sinfire, since you're hanging around my thread (and since you're our resident Incarnum expert). I'm trying to figure out why those Totemist levels are dead weight (though those skill points are really helping me meet some requirements).

When I open chakras from Soulcaster, it applies to both my meldshaping classes, yes? Not the number of binds, but the opened chakras, so the build at level 9 would be able to bind an Incarnate or Totemist soulmeld to its crown chakra (though it could still only bind one Totemist soulmeld, because its number of binds haven't increased). I've seen no text to the contrary, but I could be wrong.

Also, since I'm posting, I'm unclear on how exactly the Open Chakra feats/spells work (was thinking about getting some custom 1/day items to open some more chakras, or open them earlier). Upon the casting of one of these spells, I can bind a soulmeld to that chakra. Does that count against my chakra binds for the day?
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Critique my attempt at something odd
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2008, 12:50:45 AM »
A question Sinfire, since you're hanging around my thread (and since you're our resident Incarnum expert). I'm trying to figure out why those Totemist levels are dead weight (though those skill points are really helping me meet some requirements).

When I open chakras from Soulcaster, it applies to both my meldshaping classes, yes? Not the number of binds, but the opened chakras, so the build at level 9 would be able to bind an Incarnate or Totemist soulmeld to its crown chakra (though it could still only bind one Totemist soulmeld, because its number of binds haven't increased). I've seen no text to the contrary, but I could be wrong.

Also, since I'm posting, I'm unclear on how exactly the Open Chakra feats/spells work (was thinking about getting some custom 1/day items to open some more chakras, or open them earlier). Upon the casting of one of these spells, I can bind a soulmeld to that chakra. Does that count against my chakra binds for the day?

Your chakra slots are opened for one class, not both (hence why you have to take Open Soul Chakra if you are an Incarnate 20/Totemist 4 in order to get the Soul Chakra on the Totemist side). Same with other spellcasting advancement classes, you have to pick which class gets the benefits. The reason I say the Totemist levels are dead weight is because the ML for those soulmelds is 3 tops, while your Incarnate's are safely in the 13's or so when the build is finished. This means they are vulnerable to Dispelling, which shuts them down completely (and if you used Totemist to enter the Soulcaster but advanced Incarnate, you would immediately lose access to the PrC since the base class you use to enter it no longer meets the requirements). This hurts. A lot.

The Open Chakra spells/feats allow you to use your Chakra Binds on new body slots, they do not grant new Chakra Binds/day (although many feel they should, as the feats are worthless otherwise). Some people rule with the RAW of the effects, which essentially turns each feat into a Bonus Chakra Bind feat (which is vastly superior to the Cust Serv ruling).


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Arcane-surge

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Re: Critique my attempt at something odd
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2008, 01:06:47 AM »
Damn, that's some fast turnaround.

I'd figured on the Soulcaster opening both Totemist and Incarnate because it's not part of the advancement but a general class ability, "At 3rd level you can bind your soulmelds to your least chakras..." As opposed to an Incarnate 20/Totemist 4, whose opened chakras apply specifically to the Incarnate class, because they're confined to it.

I hadn't thought about dispelling at all, but you're right. An area dispel would shut down my totemist stuff for 1d4 rounds pretty easily. I'm still tempted by it though, Totemist has some really good mobility options. Happily, a targeted dispel on my character doesn't affect the soulmelds, it specifically says they have to be dispelled on their own, like magic items.

As for the spells/feats, we generally run RAW over Custserv, so that'd make them pretty useful for me, I think. I don't think it'd be too much of a problem, seeing as I won't exactly be ending the world with my chakra-bound soulmelds.
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