Author Topic: Character and Campaign Prep Thread  (Read 25096 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Vinom

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Rejoice, Bad things are about to happen!
    • Email
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #140 on: May 07, 2009, 02:45:30 AM »
Dragonwrought Kobold > Dragonborn Kobold anyway. :D

Remember, being a Dragonborn Kobold, you'd look almost exactly the same as you did before, but more silvery, and have to be good. And remember, Evill will always win, because Good is dumb.  :P
Actually, because there is no Bahammut, those stipulations, and your requirments to serve in the Dragonfall war fall away like Class/Race restrictions.
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

Quote from:  Sarda the Sage
You're a quick thinker and spiteful, I can respect that. You won't be killed, Bikke

Never trust a smiling laughing chuckling grinning emotionless drunk, you know what Never Trust a DM!

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature

Pulling off Pun-pun in 26 rounds

N00bs, because all gamers have to start somewhere

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!"

Remember, Mobs are at least as stupid as their dumbest member.

VennDygrem

  • Member
  • Grape ape
  • *
  • Posts: 1689
    • Email
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #141 on: May 07, 2009, 03:56:52 AM »
Actually, fluff is fluff no matter what setting you're in, so really you're not bound to that unless your DM really wants you to be. :)

Vinom

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Rejoice, Bad things are about to happen!
    • Email
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #142 on: May 07, 2009, 01:48:36 PM »
But a dragonborn Dragonfire Adept would pimp because he could us all his breathe twicking abilities on his dragonborn breathe.
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

Quote from:  Sarda the Sage
You're a quick thinker and spiteful, I can respect that. You won't be killed, Bikke

Never trust a smiling laughing chuckling grinning emotionless drunk, you know what Never Trust a DM!

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature

Pulling off Pun-pun in 26 rounds

N00bs, because all gamers have to start somewhere

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!"

Remember, Mobs are at least as stupid as their dumbest member.

Stratovarius

  • Moderator
  • Hong Kong
  • *
  • Posts: 1215
  • Player Resource Consortium
    • Player Resource Consortium
    • Email
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #143 on: May 07, 2009, 04:05:30 PM »
Well, I think I've shot down a dragonwrought kobold before, so I don't think I'm going to allow it here. I'd need to give dragonborn a quick eyeball, but that should probably be ok.
Arhosa Campaign World - Always Recruiting
Past, Present, and Future
Osteomancy - Rune Magic - Astral Magic
Class and Rule Collection
Player Resource Consortium
That is not dead which can eternal lie
And with strange aeons even death may die

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #144 on: May 07, 2009, 04:11:06 PM »
Yeah, for all effects you are considered a dragon and a member of your original race (which was dragon, too).

That's nice.  That's actually exactly what the dragonblood subtype means. It still doesn't change that, by the rules, you're Humanoid (dragonblood) when you go dragonborn. ;)  Now, mind you, I'm not opposed to houseruling you keep your type, but I just wanted to point that out ahead of time.
Dragonborn is contradictory. It says you keep your original type, which is not restricted to being humanoid, but then also says you are a humanoid (dragonblood) afterwards. It is obviously a screw-up on the author's part, and is basically unuseable as written for non-humanoids, as it is impossible to both keep your non-humanoid type and also be a humanoid. You only have one type. It can't be both ways. So it in fact requires a houserule to even use it on a non-humanoid.

It is also obvious that the author's were just writing from the perspective that most creatures taking the template would be humanoid (as most PCs are), and weren't careful in their editing/writing in considering what happens when you add it to a non-humanoid. So saying that you keep your original type and gain the dragonblood subtype is the most logical way to interprete/houserule it, and I'd say the RAI. If you don't do that, you have something that is both a humanoid and a non-humanoid at the same time...


Edit: Strat, my character in the "robot" game is a dragonborn warforged. So you've already approved the template. ;) I assumed that his type stayed the same, for the reasons I outlined above. You can look over the "template" online: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1 (it says it is a race, but it works more like a template. I think whoever wrote this had their head up their ass.)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 04:14:33 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Vinom

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Rejoice, Bad things are about to happen!
    • Email
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #145 on: May 07, 2009, 04:15:37 PM »
Yeah, for all effects you are considered a dragon and a member of your original race (which was dragon, too).

That's nice.  That's actually exactly what the dragonblood subtype means. It still doesn't change that, by the rules, you're Humanoid (dragonblood) when you go dragonborn. ;)  Now, mind you, I'm not opposed to houseruling you keep your type, but I just wanted to point that out ahead of time.
Dragonborn is contradictory. It says you keep your original type, which is not restricted to being humanoid, but then also says you are a humanoid (dragonblood) afterwards. It is obviously a screw-up on the author's part, and is basically unuseable as written for non-humanoids, as it is impossible to both keep your non-humanoid type and also be a humanoid. You only have one type. It can't be both ways. So it in fact requires a houserule to even use it on a non-humanoid.

It is also obvious that the author's were just writing from the perspective that most creatures taking the template would be humanoid (as most PCs are), and weren't careful in their editing/writing in considering what happens when you add it to a non-humanoid. So saying that you keep your original type and gain the dragonblood subtype is the most logical way to interprete/houserule it, and I'd say the RAI. If you don't do that, you have something that is both a humanoid and a non-humanoid at the same time...


Edit: Strat, my character in the "robot" game is a dragonborn warforged. So you've already approved the template. ;) I assumed that his type stayed the same, for the reasons I outlined above.

Thats why I wouldn't be born with the Dragonwrought feat, I'd switch into that feat when I'm reborn dragonborn, there for yes I am dragonborn as a huminoid with the dragonblood subtype, but the feat then makes me Type Dragon, without the dragonblood subtype.

Would you shoot down dragonwrought kobold if I don't do it for the +3 to all mental cheeze, I just like knowing that spellcasters have to make a DC 25 knowledge (arcane) check to know that all spells that only effect huminoids won't effect me.
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

Quote from:  Sarda the Sage
You're a quick thinker and spiteful, I can respect that. You won't be killed, Bikke

Never trust a smiling laughing chuckling grinning emotionless drunk, you know what Never Trust a DM!

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature

Pulling off Pun-pun in 26 rounds

N00bs, because all gamers have to start somewhere

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!"

Remember, Mobs are at least as stupid as their dumbest member.

Nanshork

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2146
  • BOO!
    • Email
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #146 on: May 07, 2009, 04:22:12 PM »
Thats why I wouldn't be born with the Dragonwrought feat

The Dragonwrought feat means that you were born Dragonwrought.
My babies - A thread of random builds I've come up with over the years.
Notes to self

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #147 on: May 07, 2009, 04:24:41 PM »
Thats why I wouldn't be born with the Dragonwrought feat

The Dragonwrought feat means that you were born Dragonwrought.
And the dragonborn "race" says you are "reborn", and can swap out feats for "dragonblood" feats when you gain it, even if those are normally only available to 1st level characters. ;) (Or something like that, I forget the exact wording).
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Nanshork

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2146
  • BOO!
    • Email
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #148 on: May 07, 2009, 04:27:22 PM »
Thats why I wouldn't be born with the Dragonwrought feat

The Dragonwrought feat means that you were born Dragonwrought.
And the dragonborn "race" says you are "reborn", and can swap out feats for "dragonblood" feats when you gain it, even if those are normally only available to 1st level characters. ;) (Or something like that, I forget the exact wording).

I think you're completely off, but I won't be home for two and a half hours so I can't prove it.
My babies - A thread of random builds I've come up with over the years.
Notes to self

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #149 on: May 07, 2009, 04:36:14 PM »
I think you're completely off, but I won't be home for two and a half hours so I can't prove it.
I don't have my book here, either. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. I went over all this crap when making my character.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Vinom

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Rejoice, Bad things are about to happen!
    • Email
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #150 on: May 07, 2009, 04:37:05 PM »
Thats why I wouldn't be born with the Dragonwrought feat

The Dragonwrought feat means that you were born Dragonwrought.
And the dragonborn "race" says you are "reborn", and can swap out feats for "dragonblood" feats when you gain it, even if those are normally only available to 1st level characters. ;) (Or something like that, I forget the exact wording).

I think you're completely off, but I won't be home for two and a half hours so I can't prove it.

He's exactly right, Dragonborn lets you exchange a feat for another on you could have only gotten at 1st lvl.
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

Quote from:  Sarda the Sage
You're a quick thinker and spiteful, I can respect that. You won't be killed, Bikke

Never trust a smiling laughing chuckling grinning emotionless drunk, you know what Never Trust a DM!

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature

Pulling off Pun-pun in 26 rounds

N00bs, because all gamers have to start somewhere

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!"

Remember, Mobs are at least as stupid as their dumbest member.

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #151 on: May 07, 2009, 05:16:46 PM »
You could technically keep the Dragonwrought feat, since I believe you're still considered a member of your original race as well as a Dragonborn (bit fuzzy on this), but since your age gets reset to Adult (using the Dragonborn's aging pattern), you couldn't make use of Venerable kobold cheese.
No, your character just became a dragonborn while he was very young... and now he is very old.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Vinom

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Rejoice, Bad things are about to happen!
    • Email
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #152 on: May 07, 2009, 05:18:20 PM »
You could technically keep the Dragonwrought feat, since I believe you're still considered a member of your original race as well as a Dragonborn (bit fuzzy on this), but since your age gets reset to Adult (using the Dragonborn's aging pattern), you couldn't make use of Venerable kobold cheese.
No, your character just became a dragonborn while he was very young... and now he is very old.
Doing it very young is irrelivent, you come into your reborn body in adulthood, 200 years before middle age nomatter what age you were when you did it.
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

Quote from:  Sarda the Sage
You're a quick thinker and spiteful, I can respect that. You won't be killed, Bikke

Never trust a smiling laughing chuckling grinning emotionless drunk, you know what Never Trust a DM!

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature

Pulling off Pun-pun in 26 rounds

N00bs, because all gamers have to start somewhere

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!"

Remember, Mobs are at least as stupid as their dumbest member.

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #153 on: May 07, 2009, 05:24:17 PM »
You could technically keep the Dragonwrought feat, since I believe you're still considered a member of your original race as well as a Dragonborn (bit fuzzy on this), but since your age gets reset to Adult (using the Dragonborn's aging pattern), you couldn't make use of Venerable kobold cheese.
No, your character just became a dragonborn while he was very young... and now he is very old.
Doing it very young is irrelivent, you come into your reborn body in adulthood, 200 years before middle age nomatter what age you were when you did it.
...and then the newly reborn dragonborn spends another 200 years sitting around before the campaign begins.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Vinom

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Rejoice, Bad things are about to happen!
    • Email
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #154 on: May 07, 2009, 05:26:27 PM »
You could technically keep the Dragonwrought feat, since I believe you're still considered a member of your original race as well as a Dragonborn (bit fuzzy on this), but since your age gets reset to Adult (using the Dragonborn's aging pattern), you couldn't make use of Venerable kobold cheese.
No, your character just became a dragonborn while he was very young... and now he is very old.
Doing it very young is irrelivent, you come into your reborn body in adulthood, 200 years before middle age nomatter what age you were when you did it.
...and then the newly reborn dragonborn spends another 200 years sitting around before the campaign begins.
Actually, he'll mostlikely be serving the church, considering I'm going combat cleric.
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

Quote from:  Sarda the Sage
You're a quick thinker and spiteful, I can respect that. You won't be killed, Bikke

Never trust a smiling laughing chuckling grinning emotionless drunk, you know what Never Trust a DM!

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature

Pulling off Pun-pun in 26 rounds

N00bs, because all gamers have to start somewhere

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!"

Remember, Mobs are at least as stupid as their dumbest member.

Nanshork

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2146
  • BOO!
    • Email
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #155 on: May 07, 2009, 07:36:43 PM »
Thats why I wouldn't be born with the Dragonwrought feat

The Dragonwrought feat means that you were born Dragonwrought.
And the dragonborn "race" says you are "reborn", and can swap out feats for "dragonblood" feats when you gain it, even if those are normally only available to 1st level characters. ;) (Or something like that, I forget the exact wording).

I think you're completely off, but I won't be home for two and a half hours so I can't prove it.

He's exactly right, Dragonborn lets you exchange a feat for another on you could have only gotten at 1st lvl.

I was right.  Dragonwrought does not require the dragonblood subtype, it is not eligible for the feat trade.  The feat trade specifically stipulates that it must be a feat requiring the dragonblood subtype.
My babies - A thread of random builds I've come up with over the years.
Notes to self

Vinom

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Rejoice, Bad things are about to happen!
    • Email
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #156 on: May 07, 2009, 07:43:59 PM »
Thats why I wouldn't be born with the Dragonwrought feat
The Dragonwrought feat means that you were born Dragonwrought.
And the dragonborn "race" says you are "reborn", and can swap out feats for "dragonblood" feats when you gain it, even if those are normally only available to 1st level characters. ;) (Or something like that, I forget the exact wording).
I think you're completely off, but I won't be home for two and a half hours so I can't prove it.
He's exactly right, Dragonborn lets you exchange a feat for another on you could have only gotten at 1st lvl.
I was right.  Dragonwrought does not require the dragonblood subtype, it is not eligible for the feat trade.  The feat trade specifically stipulates that it must be a feat requiring the dragonblood subtype.
Right, and the only way a Kobold character can loose the Dragonblood subtype is to get Dragonwrought, is it does require dragonblood, but it also requires something that is completely with the dragonblood subtype, namely the Kobold race requirement, which I still qualify for.
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

Quote from:  Sarda the Sage
You're a quick thinker and spiteful, I can respect that. You won't be killed, Bikke

Never trust a smiling laughing chuckling grinning emotionless drunk, you know what Never Trust a DM!

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature

Pulling off Pun-pun in 26 rounds

N00bs, because all gamers have to start somewhere

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!"

Remember, Mobs are at least as stupid as their dumbest member.

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #157 on: May 07, 2009, 07:54:19 PM »
I was right.  Dragonwrought does not require the dragonblood subtype, it is not eligible for the feat trade.  The feat trade specifically stipulates that it must be a feat requiring the dragonblood subtype.
I wasn't sure about that part. If that's the case, then I agree that picking up dragonwrought when becoming a dragonborn wouldn't be technically legal.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Vinom

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Rejoice, Bad things are about to happen!
    • Email
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #158 on: May 07, 2009, 07:55:48 PM »
I was right.  Dragonwrought does not require the dragonblood subtype, it is not eligible for the feat trade.  The feat trade specifically stipulates that it must be a feat requiring the dragonblood subtype.
I wasn't sure about that part. If that's the case, then I agree that picking up dragonwrought when becoming a dragonborn wouldn't be technically legal.
But is there anything in the rules or errata that says none humaniods can't become dragonborn?
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

Quote from:  Sarda the Sage
You're a quick thinker and spiteful, I can respect that. You won't be killed, Bikke

Never trust a smiling laughing chuckling grinning emotionless drunk, you know what Never Trust a DM!

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature

Pulling off Pun-pun in 26 rounds

N00bs, because all gamers have to start somewhere

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!"

Remember, Mobs are at least as stupid as their dumbest member.

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Character and Campaign Prep Thread
« Reply #159 on: May 07, 2009, 08:08:51 PM »
No, that's not the problem. The problem is that Dragonwrought does not technically require the dragonblood subtype. It requires you to specifically be a kobold. The fact that kobolds have the subtype doesn't really matter. I could see a DM allowing it, but it isn't really RAW.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]