Author Topic: DMM Persistent question  (Read 2403 times)

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Magic Ninja

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DMM Persistent question
« on: October 06, 2008, 03:07:08 AM »
I'm not really sure if this is the place to ask this, but seeing as how DMM Persistent is kinda min/maxish in and of itself I figured it was a good place to ask.

I'm, playing a Turninglord specializing in vaporizing undead in a game that will be full of the little buggers. We're going to be going to the Tomb of Horrors, then playing through Return to the Tomb of Horrors later on.

In any case I didn't want to be a 1 trick pony so I'm also going the DMM Persistent route. For the next few lvls I figured Mss Lesser Vigor will be good enough, but after I grab some nightsticks I'll be ready to rock.

I got the Sun and Glory domains, and at level 5 of RSOP I get another domain and was going to grab Good, so I can have some fun with Holy Word bombs later on. But then I noticed that Pelor also lists Strength as a domain, and it got me thinking. Would the bigby's line of spells be able to be persisted? I'm not really clear on what exactly constitutes a "fixed range" for persistent spell.

Well other than that question if anyone has some undead slaying tips for me I'd love to hear them.

AndyJames

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Re: DMM Persistent question
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2008, 03:26:15 AM »
Fixed range is those with numbers like 30ft in their Range entries. 25ft+2/level (close) or 100ft+10/level (medium) is not fixed.

Bigby's do not have a fixed range.

JaronK

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Re: DMM Persistent question
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2008, 03:31:19 AM »
Some really good persistable spells would be Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (whole party gets haste in melee and stat boosts), Vigorous Circle (basically improved Lesser Mass Vigor) and Recitation (nice bonuses to your whole party).   Certainly all three are good in any situation, including vs undead.

JaronK

Magic Ninja

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Re: DMM Persistent question
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2008, 04:35:41 AM »
K, so strength and the bigby's line are out. Is the "good" domain worth it? If I take the good domain I'll most likely take the domain spontaneity feat from complete divine. The reasoning behind that is so I'll have access to more castings of Holy Word per day.

With heighten turning giving me a +4 caster lvl when I use Divine spell power, +1 from good domain, +1 from an orange ioun stone, +4 ankh of assencion, and a bead of karma (with several more in case  of another encounter later on that day) that makes +14 caster level, which SHOULD make Holy Word better than anything I can think of to cast.

Also, what are some good persistable higher level spells? I know the obvious answer is Shapechange, but I won't be getting the trickery domain for RP reasons. Is their any other way to get access to Shadpechange on a regular basis? Or are there other options that are just as good?

I was originally thinking of using DMM chain spell, but most people seem dead set on persistent being the best so I figured chain wasn't worth it. Main reasons I was looking at DMM Chain was because I'm a Domovoi, and my wisdom is currently at 24 at ecl 9, and it'll only grow higher, so I have a good save modifier on my spells. So I thought maybe chaining Blindness/Deafness, Destruction, and Moon Bolt would be effective.

I throw myself on the mercy of the brilliant gameologists, please help me!  :-\

AndyJames

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Re: DMM Persistent question
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2008, 08:20:42 AM »
Good domain is worth it because of the +1 caster level to your Holy Word.

Omen of Peace

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Re: DMM Persistent question
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2008, 12:22:08 PM »
If you have access to Complete Champion, you can swap some domain powers for devotion feats (up to 2). The Good domain power isn't very interesting but if you get the domain for free, go for it.
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carnivore

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Re: DMM Persistent question
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2008, 05:29:54 PM »
With any turning Build, the Equipment determines the effectiveness of the overall build. Unless you are using a VOP build.???

for just Turning ability.... look at the Ability itself and Plan on Maximizing the various aspects of it.

1)it is a Cha based Class Ability..... # of Turns/day, Turning Check, Turning Damage.... are all affected by Cha....anything that helps Cha Checks..will help Turning

2)it is based on Effective Cleric Levels..... the more cleric(Effective Cleric) levels you have the higher HD Undead you can Turn, and Destroy.

just focusing on the most effective things that contribute to these ...... will determine the build.


lets start with:

Skills: ...... If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion), you get a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead.... so, Obviously, you want to get at least 5 ranks in that, and it stacks, since it is Un-named


Attributes:
Clerics have Wisdom as a Primary Casting Attribute, but turning is Cha based.... since the Min Wis needed is 19(to cast 9th lvl spells)... you can afford to Boost Cha as high as you can...... for a 32 point buy, try this:

10 Str
10 Dex
12 Con
12 Int
16 Wis
16 Cha

this gives great Wis and Cha, but you need to stay out of Melee combat... try to be a Ranged Support Character

Domain....domain choice also affect this abilty:
Glory (CDiv p139)Turn Undead with a +2 bonus on the Turning Check & +1d6 on the Turning Damage Check.

SunSpells:... there are several spells in the Spell Compendium, that directly affect Turning Undead:

Light of Faith(Cleric 2)swift action, 1rnd/CL, holy symbol touched:
Sacred Bonus to Turning Check= 1/2 CL

Light of Wisdom(Cleric 3)swift action, 1rnd/CL, holy symbol touched:
+1 Effective Cleric Turning Level/3CL for Highest HD affected and Destroyed

Light of Purity(Cleric 4)swift action, 1rnd/CL, holy symbol touched:
+1d6 Turning Damage/ 4CL(max 5d6)

Light of Courage(Cleric 6)swift action, 1rnd/CL, holy symbol touched:
+1d8 Damage/2CL bonus damage to ALL Undead that you try to Turn, even if you dont Succeed

Consecrate(Cleric 2)Duration: 2 hours/level,No Save/No SR:
Each Charisma check made to turn undead within this area gains a +3 sacred bonus.

Hallow(Cleric 5)
:all Charisma checks made to turn undead gain a +4 sacred bonus,


Feats: ... this has the most impact on turning, other than actual Cleric levels, or Effective Cleric levels.

Disciple of the SunExalted Turning[Exalted] (BoED p42)Ability to Turn Undead
Any Undead you successfully Turn also takes 3d6 damage.

Empower Turning[General] (CDiv p81)Ability to Turn or Rebuke Undead
Multiple your Turning Damage (after adding in your Cleric level & your Charisma modifier) by 1.5 to determine the number of Undead HD you effect.

Extra Turning[General](PH p94)Ability to Turn or Rebuke creatures
Each time you take this feat, you gain an additional 4 uses per day of your Turning / Rebuking ability. If you have more than one such ability, you must choose which ability it adds to when you take the feat. You may take this feat multiple times.

Heighten Turning[General](LM p27)Ability to Turn or Rebuke Undead,
Charisma 13, Extra Turning
When you Turn or Rebuke Undead, you may choose a number no higher than your effective Cleric level.Add that number to your Turning Check, then subtract it from your Turning Damage roll.

Improved Turning[General] (PH p96)Ability to Turn or Rebuke creatures You may Turn or Rebuke creatures as if you were one level higher in the class that grants the ability.

Quicken Turning[Divine](CDiv p84)(LM p20)Ability to Turn or Rebuke Undead
You may make a Turn or Rebuke Undead attempt as Free Action. You may only make an attempt once per round.

Extra Turning[General](PH p94)Ability to Turn or Rebuke creatures
Each time you take this feat, you gain an additional 4 uses per day of your Turning / Rebuking ability. If you have more than one such ability, you must choose which ability it adds to when you take the feat.You may take this feat multiple times.

Divine Energy Focus (Ghostwalk) - treat as if +2 levels in your T/R class for purposes of destroying or commanding undead. And grants a +2 to Turning checks and Turning Damage rolls.

Faith in the Frost(Frostburn) ... add Cha bonus as Cold damage to any undead you turn

Choosen of the Deathless(races of Eberron)......+2 turn damage and check



now if you are a Num-Human(no bonus feat) ... then you get 7 Feats in normal Play for a 20th lvl character... so we will use that as a starting point.

say we decide that we want to focus Solely on Turning Undead to the exclusion of everything else.... so we want a +Cha race....lets use Hellborn(Spirit Aspect)(+2 Cha,-2 Con)


and to make things easier... we will use Cleric 20 for the Build

ok...like this:

Hellborn(Spirit Aspect)(+2 Cha,-2 Con)

Cleric 20.... Patron(Ehlonna,Pelor,Lathander,Horus-Re,
Domains:
Glory
Sun

32 point buy

10 Str
10 Dex
12 Con
12 Int
16 Wis
16 Cha

assume 3 level boosts go to Wisdom, and 2 level boosts go to Cha..... remember we are not counting items.

Feats:
1st lvl: Improved Turning
3rd lvl: Empower Turning
6th lvl: Extra Turning
9th lvl: Divine Energy Focus
12th lvl: Choosen of the Deathless
15th lvl: Quicken Turning
18th lvl: Disciple of the Sun

i dont feel like doing the math.... but this is quite nice, especially combined with the Spells from the Spell Compendium and PHB




Quick Review for Undead Turning Builds:
Essential Feats:
Empower Turning.... turning damage x 1.5
Improved Turning........... +1 effective Cleric Level for all Turning aspects
Extra Turning...............+4 additional Turn Attempts

Good Feats:
Sun Devotion........ boost to weapon
Choosen of the Deathless......+2 turn damage and check
Quicken Turning.................. turn as Swift action
Divine Energy Focus.............+2 turn damage and check, and +2 lvls higher for destroy chance

after this ..... Equipment determines the Final Strength of the Build


 :D