Author Topic: Shapechanger  (Read 14435 times)

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kurashu

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Shapechanger
« on: October 05, 2008, 10:05:16 PM »
First cropping in the Wildshape fix thread, I proposed divorcing druid spellcasting from wildshaping and spinning it off into its own class. I posted a rough draft and here is the next one here.

Shapechanger

Hit Dice: 1d8
BAB: 3/4
Saves: Good Fortitude, Reflex, Will
Skill (Skill Points: 4 + INT): Bluff, Climb, Craft, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (Geography/Local/Nature), Listen, Move Silently, Ride, Search, Spot, Survival, Tumble, Use Rope.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Shapechangers are proficient with Daggers, Sickles, Clubs, Spears, Longspears, Short Spears, Quarterstaff, Longbow, Shortbow; a shapechanger is not proficient with any armor or shields.

01 Nature Sense, Wild Empathy
02 Fast Movement, Woodland Stride
03 Track, Trackless
04 Wildshape (Small, medium, animals, humanoid, 1/day), Shifter's Speech
05 Shifter's Reach
06 Wildshape (monstrous humanoid, 2/day), Swift Tracker
07 Manifest Senses, Fast Wildshape
08 Wildshape (large, giant, 3/day)
09 Morphic Weapons
10 Improved Wildshape, Wildshape (tiny, fey, vermin, 4/day)
11 Amorphous Form
12 Wildshape (huge, aberration, 5/day)
13 Evershifting Form, Enhanced Wildshape
14 Wildshape (plant, 6/day)
15 Greater Wildshape
16 Wildshape (diminutive, ooze, 7/day)
17 Timeless Body
18 Wildshape (elemental, 8/day)
19 Multishape
20 Perfected Wildshape, Wildshape (gargantuan, dragon, 9/day)

Nature Sense (Ex): A shapechanger gains a +2 on Knowledge (Nature) and Survival checks.

Wild Empathy (Ex): A shapechanger can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The shapechanger rolls 1d20 and adds her shapechanger level and her Charisma modifier to determine the wild empathy check result.

The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

To use wild empathy, the shapechanger and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.

A shapechanger can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but she takes a -4 penalty on the check.

Fast Movement (Ex): A shapechanger land speed is faster than the norm for her race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when she is wearing no armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the shapechanger speed because of any load carried or armor worn.

Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a shapechanger may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect her.

Track: A shapeshifter gains track as a bonus feat at level three.

Trackless Step (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a shapechanger leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. She may choose to leave a trail if so desired.

Shifter's Speech (Ex): While wildshaped, a shapechanger retains her ability to speak any language she could in her normal form.

Wildshape (Su):Shifter's Reach (Su): A shapechanger may grow her natural weapons to gain 5ft of reach (or an additional 5ft if she already possessed reach).

Swift Tracker (Ex): Beginning at 6th level, a shapechanger can move at her normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal -5 penalty. She takes only a -10 penalty (instead of the normal -20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

Manifest Senses (Ex): A 7th level shapechanger gains the senses from the forms she assumes from wildshape. Senses include extraordinary special qualities such as blindsight, blindsense, darkvision, low-light vision, scent and tremorsense.

Fast Wildshape (Su): At 7th level, a shapechanger may use wildshape as a move action rather than a standard action.

Morphic Weapons (Su): At 9th level, a shapechanger using wildshape adds an magical properties of her held weapons in each hand with the natural attacks of her new form. The magic of each weapon affects only the corresponding limb of the new form, not ever attack. For example, a shapechanger wields a +1 flaming dagger in one hand and a +2 shocking dagger in the other hand before wildshaping into a bear. The weapons affect the claw attacks of her new form as follows: One claw gains a +1 bonus on all attack and damage rolls and also gains the flaming special ability and the other gains a +2 bonus on all attack and damage rolls and the shocking special ability. If the assumed form doesn't have claw or slam attacks that corresponds to a shapechanger's natural limbs, then this ability has no special affect. This effect lasts for as long as the shapechanger is wildshaped. When using this ability, the shapechanger's natural weapons overcome damage reduction as the weapons she was holding would. In the example above, the shapechanger would overcome damage reduction as if both her natural weapons were magical.

Improved Wildshape (Ex): Starting at 10th level, a shapechanger gains the extraordinary special qualities of any form she assumes with wildshape.

Amorphous Form (Ex): An 11th level shapechanger is adept at moving her organs around her body to protect herself from harm. She gains immunity to critical hits and stunning.

Evershifting Form (Ex): At 13th level, a shapechanger gains the shapechanger subtype and is immune to any transmutation effects unless she is willing to accept it.

Enhanced Wildshape (Su): Beginning at 13th level, a shapechanger can preserve whatever physical enhancements granted by her equipment when wildshaped. Whenever a shapechanger wildshapes, she retains  any enhancement bonus bonuses to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution granted by any equipment she wears even if it can't be worn by her new form.

Greater Wildshape (Su): Starting at 15th level, a shapechanger gains the supernatural special qualities of any form she assumes with wildshape.

Timeless Body (Ex): After attaining 17th level, a shapechanger no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties she may have already incurred, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the shapechanger still dies of old age when her time is up

Multishape (Su): At 19th level, a shapechanger may shift shapes as many times as she wants during the duration of her wildshape.

Perfected Wildshape (Su): A 20th level shapechanger may assume any form that has HD equal to her shapechanger level + 5. In addition, she may retain any enhancements to her armor class granted by any equipment she wears even if it can't be worn by her new form.


So, let's refine this thing, shall we?

woodenbandman

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2008, 08:49:43 PM »
19th level: Whee, persistent shapechange every day!

Oops, that's cleric's job.  :D

really, once you hit 19th level, aren't the only thing the other 7 uses of wildshape are good for Wild Feats? *shudder

Also, There's still the problem of Wild armor, which is technically not armor while you are in wildshape, as it has no substance/armor check penalty/whatever.


veekie

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2008, 02:59:32 AM »
Wait wait wait, until level 4 a Shapechanger can't actually change shape?

You best be a'jokin.

Could give it some claws/teeth/minor stat boost to partially shift into.
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To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2008, 01:48:56 PM »
You know, just because Wild Shape is taken off Druids doesn't mean other non-shaping class features have to be nature-based...
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

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Elennsar

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2008, 01:52:11 PM »
Who (other than those who can change shape as a racial thing, rather than learned) can change shape?

That's my problem with the idea. I just can't think of anything. I don't want to prevent it just because I'm ignorant of someone/something really cool, but "there might be a player who wants to play this" isn't a good enough reason to introduce to the game at large, in my opinion.

Seconded on the nature thing.
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2008, 07:30:07 PM »
Quote
Who (other than those who can change shape as a racial thing, rather than learned) can change shape?

Elennsar, you obviously need to watch more anime.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Elennsar

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2008, 07:33:01 PM »
 :lol If it wasn't for the fact I dislike the artistic style (even when not...shall we say...disturbing), I'd agree.

Faith can move mountains. It still can't deflect bullets.



"Communication with humans." is a cross-class skill for me. Please bear this in mind.

kurashu

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2008, 09:21:50 PM »
You know, just because Wild Shape is taken off Druids doesn't mean other non-shaping class features have to be nature-based...

That is true. But, this is how I thought the class should look. If you want to craft another shapechanging class, feel free to. I felt a nature themed class fit the idea of a shapechanger.

As for not being able to wildshape until level 4, I guess it's not too horribly busted to grant it at level 1 but then that messes with classes that require wildshape into enter (...warshaper and, uhm...master of many forms and then there's...nature's warrior? Daggerspell Shaper, but that doesn't really count...).

Kuroimaken

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2008, 10:03:31 PM »
Quote
That is true. But, this is how I thought the class should look. If you want to craft another shapechanging class, feel free to. I felt a nature themed class fit the idea of a shapechanger.

Hmmm, I suppose. Though to be fair some things are pretty unnatural to change into... *points to Gargantuan bee*

I was just thinking that the spot for nature's warrior was already taken by the ranger. The shapechanger could just as easily be a martial artist of sorts, mimicking other creatures before he gains the ability to change into them to attain power.
Quote
As for not being able to wildshape until level 4, I guess it's not too horribly busted to grant it at level 1 but then that messes with classes that require wildshape into enter (...warshaper and, uhm...master of many forms and then there's...nature's warrior? Daggerspell Shaper, but that doesn't really count...).
Minor shifting traits like growing claws/teeth/horns/tail could take care of that problem. Minor enough that it doesn't count as wildshape, though not so much that the class can't change at ALL at level 1.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


RobbyPants

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2008, 10:57:26 PM »
Wait wait wait, until level 4 a Shapechanger can't actually change shape?

You best be a'jokin.

Could give it some claws/teeth/minor stat boost to partially shift into.
That could be reasonable.  Either a 3/day or 1/encounter claws ability.  Give two claw attacks (full BAB each, no iterative attacks) for 1d4 damage each (1d6 large, 1d3 small).  It would serve as a minor wildshape ability for the first three levels.

I've always liked the idea of classes where you feel like you get the core ablities of your class at level 1, even if they're dulled down versions.
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2008, 11:17:46 PM »
Quote
That could be reasonable.  Either a 3/day or 1/encounter claws ability.  Give two claw attacks (full BAB each, no iterative attacks) for 1d4 damage each (1d6 large, 1d3 small).  It would serve as a minor wildshape ability for the first three levels.

Why limit it that way? The claws as you suggest are essentially weaker than even a monk's unarmed strike at level 1...
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


RobbyPants

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2008, 11:20:00 PM »
True.  I was just picturing that level 1 Druid claw spell, which is why I put on the limit.

If you give a 1d6 bite or slam attack (or whatever, if it's a single attack), I can see it being a permanent ability.

Granting 1d4 for two attacks is stronger.  There's no -2 penalty like with flurry or TWF, and you add your full Str to each attack.  Of course, compared to a greatsword fighter, this isn't really broken.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Kuroimaken

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2008, 11:41:12 PM »
Quote
Granting 1d4 for two attacks is stronger.  There's no -2 penalty like with flurry or TWF, and you add your full Str to each attack.  Of course, compared to a greatsword fighter, this isn't really broken.

Huh?

Are you sure? I was certain that natural weapons had reducers for multiple attacks... at least I know secondaries do, and you can't have two primaries.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


SiggyDevil

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2008, 02:48:09 AM »
Quote
Who (other than those who can change shape as a racial thing, rather than learned) can change shape?

Elennsar, you obviously need to watch more anime.

This. I would totally break your fucking mind within a single day given the choices I'd show you.

And unsurprisingly, I already had Elennsar pegged as a "Oh, I can't stand anime in general kind of person." Must be getting better at that.

Elennsar

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2008, 04:08:55 AM »
I can't stand anime art. Not necessarily "things done with anime".

Please note the difference. There's plenty of nonanime stuff that disturbs me even more, I just prefer the Occidental art style.

On topic: How do the unarmed attacks compare to the armed options the shapeshifter has? That is, is he supposed to favor unarmed, armed, up-to-him, what?

I'm asking what the idea behind this is, since if you want him to rely on his claws, 1d4 is too weak.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 04:10:29 AM by Elennsar »
Faith can move mountains. It still can't deflect bullets.



"Communication with humans." is a cross-class skill for me. Please bear this in mind.

SiggyDevil

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2008, 04:14:37 AM »
In fact, 1d4 is so weak that you don't need to restrict it to "3/day or 1/encounter".

Give em 2 claws for 1d4, a slam or tail slap for 1d6 +1.5 STR, or a bite/horn for 1d6 (can use other weapons in either hand) at level 1.
They pick which as a move action each round, eventually as a swift.

Also, that whole "dulled down" suggestion gave me an idea.

I'll set about making a Succubus playable at all levels with the ideal function of fiendish shapeshifting seducer, even though it goes as low as L1.
The key would be in providing many to all options... but at an appropriate level and severely reduced intensity.

veekie

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2008, 06:19:51 AM »
This would be very interesting if it ditched the wildshape for a menu based shapeshifting power though, and/or becomes to the Transmuter what the Dread Necromancer was to the Necromancer rather than a druid with the spells stripped out. Problem with wild shape is having several monster manuals open to use(with accessibility based on loose gauges of power level) gives the players access to stuff that probably wasn't even balanced for it's CR in the first place.

Take a leaf out of the animal companion rebalancing for possible forms I think. Build your own freak of nature.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

RobbyPants

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2008, 09:46:32 AM »
Quote
Granting 1d4 for two attacks is stronger.  There's no -2 penalty like with flurry or TWF, and you add your full Str to each attack.  Of course, compared to a greatsword fighter, this isn't really broken.

Huh?

Are you sure? I was certain that natural weapons had reducers for multiple attacks... at least I know secondaries do, and you can't have two primaries.
Per the SRD on Natural Attacks (emphasis mine):

Quote from: SRD
Natural Weaponsone of them (or sometimes a pair or set of them) is the primary weapon. Attacks with secondary natural weapons are less effective and are made with a -5 penalty on the attack roll, no matter how many there are. (Creatures with the Multiattack feat take only a -2 penalty on secondary attacks.) This penalty applies even when the creature makes a single attack with the secondary weapon as part of the attack action or as an attack of opportunity.
So, basically, if the monster has two attack modes, the primary attack mode is at full BAB, and the secondary attacks are are -5 BAB.  Do note that each monster has a different primary attack, and it's quite possible for a pair of claws to be the primary, and the bite to be the secondary.  So, in this case, the two claws are at full BAB (no penalty at all).  Just take a look at the black bear entry, for example.

So that, combined with getting your full Str mod per claw, was the reason I experessed concern at first.  Looking back on it, I don't think it's broken, but it's certainly more powerful than a single 1d6 attack per round.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Kuroimaken

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Re: Shapechanger
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2008, 12:13:45 PM »
Quote
So, basically, if the monster has two attack modes, the primary attack mode is at full BAB, and the secondary attacks are are -5 BAB.  Do note that each monster has a different primary attack, and it's quite possible for a pair of claws to be the primary, and the bite to be the secondary.  So, in this case, the two claws are at full BAB (no penalty at all).  Just take a look at the black bear entry, for example.

So that, combined with getting your full Str mod per claw, was the reason I experessed concern at first.  Looking back on it, I don't think it's broken, but it's certainly more powerful than a single 1d6 attack per round.

Gotcha. Still, at lower levels the dice have a bigger precedence. I may be wrong, but I think the Fighter ith a Greatsword still has bigger damage than a level 1 Shapechanger with claws.
Quote
I can't stand anime art. Not necessarily "things done with anime".

Please note the difference. There's plenty of nonanime stuff that disturbs me even more, I just prefer the Occidental art style.

You just haven't taken a look at the right producers, then. I recommend you look up Gankutsuou or Speed Grapher, both by Gonzo. Both the art and the animation style are nothing like conventional anime, and I think you might enjoy it.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!