Gestalt advice needed

[rubberduck]

i recently discoverd this page(followed an obscure link from wizards co forums)
well i liked it and decided to stay!

well due to the loss of one player out group decided to allow the horribly broken gestalt rules.
in the most broken way...
its my turn beeing the cleric and i decided to take one side of my char as a trumpet archon.(monsterclass can be found at savae species)
mostly because we decided to play a good group and some kind of celestials and because trumpet archon gets cleric casting for free
casting is even better then a real cleric since im always two levels ahead i loose domain powers/slots and turning for that but anway...

now i wonder what to make on the other side.
i was thinking about ->

1: paladin
which has nice alternative class features like charging smite or the underdark knight etc... unfortunatly most of them require yu to give up you mount which i cant do more then one time 

2: truenamer
utterances are nice i could cheese in the trumpet becoming my item familiar for the skillchecks 

3: monk
(simply because i did not see one in our games for a long time) my wis increases multiple times and i get natural armor...
and maybe i could somehow manage to flurry with my greatword hehe...

i^m trying to avoid another caster because all the spells are just to hard to keep track of(already had a dual caster in gestalt though it was fun it was hard...)
apart from that i open for suggestions.

or are there any outsider only classes/prcs im not aware of?
anything apart from 3.0 especially BoED is fine

[AndyJames]

Druid.

Wis synergy and why play CoDzilla when you can play CaDzilla?

[rubberduck]

hehe yeah i know but another caster... exactly what i not wanted ;-)

i was even tinking about a kensai boosting the trumpet/sword even more
or fighter to get most of the sword.

[AndyJames]

Outsider gives max BAB, so any full BAB class is a waste of time 99% of the time. Go for something which gives you more ommph.

That said, if you really want to play with a warrior type, I'd say go Swordsage. Wis to AC in light armour is gold for a guy with Wis-based casting.

[Rebel7284]

The savage progression doesn't really give max BAB/saves due to the LA being factored in.  With that said, are you allowed to use templates and would they apply to one side or both?  If it's to one side, Saint on the other side is really fitting and really broken.  Add monk's belt for WIS to AC twice without having to take class levels for it.

Not sure what non-caster classes are optimal.  Druid IS good though when you get a bunch of persisted spells and turn into a bear.  You need to dip sacred exorcist on the druid side to abuse DMM.

Edit: Saint2/Monk1/Druidx also works nicely if your DM allows the bears to make a full attack using unarmed strikes before using the natural weapons.  Flurry = Karate chopping bears.

[Omen of Peace]

Swordsage is very solid but you'll have to choose maneuvers. So maybe monk would be best - very little to take care on that side.

There are many feats that allow you to flurry with various weapons. I think longsword is doable but probably not greatsword. 5 levels of Shou Disciple (UE) will get you that but it's a big investment.

Dipping Sacred Exorcist to get Turning back would not be a bad idea: one of the cleric's strengths are the turning feats.

And what's with people ignoring the fact he doesn't want a 2nd spellcasting progression ?!

[rubberduck]

if templates then they count for both sides but with a slightly reduced la...
saint IS of course good but i cant take that...forget templates dm says NO

as for druid : its no because of the casterpart and as far as wildshape is concerned i think i would actually lose a lot when changeing my form
you know people like to polymorph into outsiders for a reason

i'd prefer someting that gets armor prof. since the outsider part is not prof. with ANY armor. and i just checked through the monk... unfortunately the monk dublicates lots of stuff i already have...

like:
feather fall ->fly
spell resistance 10+hd -> SR 9+hd
tounges
becoming outsider


manuevers are more or less like spells... ;-)

[AndyJames]

The savage progression doesn't really give max BAB/saves due to the LA being factored in.  With that said, are you allowed to use templates and would they apply to one side or both?  If it's to one side, Saint on the other side is really fitting and really broken.  Add monk's belt for WIS to AC twice without having to take class levels for it.

Not sure what non-caster classes are optimal.  Druid IS good though when you get a bunch of persisted spells and turn into a bear.  You need to dip sacred exorcist on the druid side to abuse DMM.

Edit: Saint2/Monk1/Druidx also works nicely if your DM allows the bears to make a full attack using unarmed strikes before using the natural weapons.  Flurry = Karate chopping bears.

Note that LA is not taken into account for BAB limits. If you have a level 20 fighter with an LA+4 template on it, he has a BAB of 20.

Also note that racial HD does not have a limit on BAB. You don't believe me? Take a look at the Big T.

[Omen of Peace]

Btw, you do realize your level for cleric casting is Racial HD + 2 ? With the big LA, you end up quite a way behind a normal Cleric. If your DM lets it work with HD + 2 then of course it's a completely different beast.

Outsider HDs are basically so good that you don't really need so-called "passive benefits" on the other side to balance them. So: what do you want to do ? You can go crazy.
For instance, start stacking X to Y bonuses. Paladin 2 for Cha to saves, Monk 1 for Wis to AC, Shiba Protector (Oriental Adventures - may not be allowed) for Wis to attack & dmg, Fist of the Forest for Con to AC...
In a high-power game, armors are actually not the optimized way to go for a high AC.

You can also dip PrCs to get some domains (Holt Warden, Contemplative, Church Inquisitor...).

[carnivore]

since you are using the Savage Species racial Progression on one side of the Gestalt .... you should try this:

1)try to avoid losing BAB on the other side of the Gestalt, if possible

2)focus on Skills, Feats on the other side of the gestalt

3)look for classes that give uses for High Attributes(Monk Wis to AC, Paladin Cha to Saves,etc...)


try this:

Trumpet Archon 20// Monk 2/ Fighter 2/ Paladin 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/ Fist of the Forest 2/ Warmind 10

combined with Bonuses from Trumpet Archon(Str +10, Dex +6, Con +12, Int +6, Wis +6, Cha +6)

feats:
Improved Unarmed Strike(monk bonus)
Monastic Training(Warmind)(monk bonus)
Combat Reflexes(Monk Bonus)
Power Attack(fighter bonus)
Combat Expertise(fighter bonus)
Improved Bull rush(psychic Warrior bonus)
Improved Trip(psychic Warrior bonus)

Great Fortitude
Practiced Manifester(Warmind)
Practiced Caster(Cleric)
Shock Trooper
Pushback
Tashalatora(Warmind)
Robilars Gambit


this gives:

BAB+18
Wis to AC
Con to AC
Cha to all Saves

Unarmed Strike as Monk 12th(2d6) but +1 size larger = 2d8 Unarmed Damage..... not counting Expansion
Greater Flurry

Psionics:
great PP based on Wis
PW 2nd... 2 powers(2 @ 1st lvl) @ 2nd lvl Manifester
suggested Powers:
Bite of the Wolf
Conceal thoughts


Warmind 10th .... 6 powers(2 @ 1st lvl, 1 @ 2nd lvl, 1 @ 3rd lvl, 1 @ 4th lvl, 1 @ 5th lvl) @ 14th lvl Manifester

1st lvl:
Expansion
Precognition, Offensive

2nd lvl:
Detect Hostile Intent

3rd lvl:
Vampiric Weapon

4th lvl:
Steadfast Perception

5th lvl:
Oak Body


Sweeping Strike
3/day +4 Insight to Str and Con
3/day +4 Insight to AC
DR 3/-

 

[rubberduck]

yes thats a idea!

thats what i gonna do (except for fist of the forest... i cant really imagine a servent of the heavens living like a wild animal. )
i did not think of going psionic but it seems a fine idea

by the way... yes i get hd+2 cleric casting ;-) not archon hd+2

[carnivore]

for a build without Fist of The Forest... try this:

Trumpet Archon 20// Monk 2/ Fighter 2/ Paladin 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/ Pious Templar 2/ Warmind 10

combined with Bonuses from Trumpet Archon(Str +10, Dex +6, Con +12, Int +6, Wis +6, Cha +6)

feats:
Improved Unarmed Strike(monk bonus)
Monastic Training(Warmind)(monk bonus)
Combat Reflexes(Monk Bonus)
Power Attack(fighter bonus)
Combat Expertise(fighter bonus)
Improved Bull rush(psychic Warrior bonus)
Improved Trip(psychic Warrior bonus)

True Believer
Practiced Manifester(Warmind)
Practiced Caster(Cleric)
Shock Trooper
Weapon Focus(? )
Tashalatora(Warmind)
Robilars Gambit


this way you gain Mettle , some spells from Paladin list, Smite

 

[woodenbandman]

Trumpet Archon20//Anything. You have 9th level cleric spells, what more could you need? Although, if you wanted to be any more effective, you'd have to add in either maneuvers or arcane spells. Try this: Trumpet Archon20//Crusader4/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/Swordsage1/Master of the Nine5 Now put those swift actions to good use! quicken that shit.

[kurashu]

RKV wouldn't be allowed in gestalt.

[rubberduck]

i will stick to carnivores last plan
Trumpet Archon 20// Monk 2/ Fighter 2/ Paladin 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/ Pious Templar 2/ Warmind 10
i have done the math and it seems that i get
18 feats
bab  20
fort  22
ref   12
will  13
and there will be cha on saves and greaer resistance for another +6

looks fine
does Tashalatora not have a req. of beeing a shaper? or something?
scrach that found the feat its great!!!

[carnivore]

i will stick to carnivores last plan
Trumpet Archon 20// Monk 2/ Fighter 2/ Paladin 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/ Pious Templar 2/ Warmind 10
i have done the math and it seems that i get
18 feats
bab  20
fort  22
ref   12
will  13
and there will be cha on saves and greaer resistance for another +6

looks fine
does Tashalatora not have a req. of beeing a shaper? or something?
scrach that found the feat its great!!!

on top of your great saves,...you also get Mettle and Evasion ..... if you make a save you take nothing

your character will do just fine even without any equipment at all .... even better when fully equiped

 

[rubberduck]

ok thx for all of your ideas
especially carnivore

i made it up and wrote it down added some more feats
(thouh there are still 3 free)

im pretty good of with this
if anyone has some suggestions or does spot any mistake please tell me
you can check it out here:
http://rubberduck.selfip.com/dnd/trumpet-archon.html
unfortunatly i cant post it here as a text cause when it looses its formating
it nearly unreadable