Not a Troll: Tell me why the rich should have higher taxes.

[X-Codes]

A tax break won't help those who have more money than they know what to do with, or those who don't know what to do because they're without money. All it will do is further reduce government revenues.

This is one of those times that if humans had a speck of decency in them, it'd be nice to see.

You've got a point that I've overlooked somewhat, but the impact is still minimal so long as the excess money of the rich is invested, loaned, donated to charity, or otherwise put back to work.  If they sit on it, then it becomes a problem and taxes need to be increased.

[Elennsar]

The problem is that if Mr. 100 million isn't pumping money in with 25% taxes, what's going to make him suddenly do so with 15%? Nothing.

Hell, even dropping from 40% to 15% is unlikely to make him do so, if he pays 40% to begin with (I wish).

[AndyJames]

The problem is that if Mr. 100 million isn't pumping money in with 25% taxes, what's going to make him suddenly do so with 15%? Nothing.

[Elennsar]

Andy, if and when the rich actually contribute their fair share, I'd be delighted. However, nothing to date has made those who control 90% of the world's wealth do anything resembling 90% of the spending, either via taxes or purchases.

So, fuck him. Bail out the people who are being screwed over by the corporations, not the corporations.

[AndyJames]

Andy, if and when the rich actually contribute their fair share, I'd be delighted. However, nothing to date has made those who control 90% of the world's wealth do anything resembling 90% of the spending, either via taxes or purchases.

So, fuck him. Bail out the people who are being screwed over by the corporations, not the corporations.

Learn to read. I'll be posting the Picard picture next...

[PhoenixInferno]

So, fuck him. Bail out the people who are being screwed over by the corporations, not the corporations.

You seem to have little understanding of what the implications of a failed financial system are.

Think Japan circa 1990 - they haven't fully recovered yet.  Or think Great Depression.

[AndyJames]

You seem to have little understanding of what the implications of a failed financial system are.

+1

Not only him, though.

[Elennsar]

Bailing out the big corporations will not stop a great economic disaster.

It will not make it so that the people who are screwed over by the system, and the abuses of what pathetic regulations it does have are better off.

If you want to help the common man, help the common man.

700 billion to pay the people who are the reason this went to Hell is 700 billion that will have to be found somewhere, and I'm sure the bill won't wind being paid by those who can afford it.

So, as stated, fuck Mr. Overrich.

This is "transfer money from those who work to those who fuck up/are our buddies.".

And people wail about welfare being abused by leeches. This is saying "HEY GUYS! THERE'S NO COST TO MAKING BAD LOANS!"

Sorry, but if the government is going to run the economy, I'd like it to do so with the good of the workers in mind, not of the people who discovered that their gambles didn't pay off.

So, unless the corporations are made heavily responsible for their screw-ups, they should not recieve a single goddamn penny for wrecking things.

[AndyJames]

So, as stated, fuck Mr. Overrich.

[Elennsar]

Oh that's right.

I completely forgot! All rich people deserve every penny they have! Nevermind whether or not what they did is illegal, unethical, or sabotaging anything else!

We must ensure that they have the money to continue abusing the system!

So...

Andy, unless and until they contribute an amount equivalant to the amount they've abused the system to get, then I'm for anything short of a Reign of Terror to reign them back in.

People who make bad loans because of their own bad choices should not be provided with money we can barely afford to get to compensate them for their own stupidity.

[AndyJames]

Oh that's right.

I completely forgot! All rich people deserve every penny they have! Nevermind whether or not what they did is illegal, unethical, or sabotaging anything else!

We must ensure that they have the money to continue abusing the system!

So...

Andy, unless and until they contribute an amount equivalant to the amount they've abused the system to get, then I'm for anything short of a Reign of Terror to reign them back in.

People who make bad loans because of their own bad choices should not be provided with money we can barely afford to get to compensate them for their own stupidity.

Hey, frakktard.

Listen!



No, I mean actually LISTEN!






The guys who are advocating the bailout is doing it FOR the common guys who will have their lives ruined if their investments go poof! They are not doing it for the "overrich".

The issue is not than just "for you or against you". No one gives a flying crap about you. You are insignificant. All the poor bastards who will be affected by an economic collapse, which is mainly the NOT "overrich"; those are the guys we worry about.

Get it, bonehead?



Gods damnit. This place is full of Corrupt Avengers and Rebels Without A Bloody Clue.

[PhoenixInferno]

If you refuse to acknowledge the consequences of a failed financial system (whether it happens or not), then there is no point in discussing the economy with you at all.

[Elennsar]

There is no point discussing the economy with people who think -giving money to the people whose mistakes caused this disaster will help those who are being fucked over by those people-.

And where are we getting the money for this bail out? Increased taxes? That'd have to be on the rich, because they actually have the money to pay.

Loans? We're already deeper in debt abroad than we know what to do with.

Printing money? That'd be an unambiguous "shoot self in foot" plan. Shoot self in brain, really.

The big corporations getting money WILL NOT help the common man unless the big corporations actually wise up and don't see this as "hey if we make it seem like the economy will collapse we'll get the government to give us money!"

Since there's little sign they have any interest in doing so, or that the bill is going to force them to do so in order to get the money...

I have no interest in backing anything that will just increase government debt and corporate irresponsibility.

What this place is filled with are people who are fed up with the system failing to work and would like to see it gutted and replaced, as opposed to people who are blindly optimistic that if we give people money for screwing up, that they won't interept it as "hey we have a way to get money without having to produce anything".

The Great Depression was an ugly thing and I don't like forward to it happening again. Nor do I look forward to the continuation of the Gilded Age.

So, fuck the overrich and fuck the "capitalism works because the poor aren't starving to death..yet!" optimists.

If the system isn't reformed, all the government spending in the world won't help Joe Average one wooden nickle.

[Callix]

If you refuse to acknowledge the consequences of a failed financial system (whether it happens or not), then there is no point in discussing the economy with you at all.

I'm going to have to agree. When things turn sour, the poor are the first to suffer. If things do crash, then we should be careful about fairness when we rebuild, but we shjouldn't cheer or hasten the collapse, because people's lives will be ruined by a major crash, and most of those people will not be rich at all.

Fundamental law of capitalism: in good times, everyone prospers, especially the rich. In poor times, everyone suffers, especially the poor. It's not fair, but we need reform, not cataclysm.

EDIT: Spelling. "eveyone wuffers"? What was I thinking?

[Elennsar]

Slight edit on the rule of capitalism:

In good times, everyone who isn't exploited prospers. Unfortunately, the poor are exploited to make the system work.

"A rising tide lifts all boats" only applies if you have a boat.

So, while I agree that reform > cataclysm, "give them money!" is not reform.

[Callix]

Slight edit on the rule of capitalism:

In good times, everyone who isn't exploited prospers. Unfortunately, the poor are exploited to make the system work.

"A rising tide lifts all boats" only applies if you have a boat.

So, while I agree that reform > cataclysm, "give them money!" is not reform.

No, but "give them money" is how to avoid cataclysm. In the couple of years we bought, we can work on reform, and no-one jumps out of buildings or starves, and it doesn't take decades to get back on our feet.

[AndyJames]

The big corporations getting money WILL NOT help the common man unless the big corporations actually wise up and don't see this as "hey if we make it seem like the economy will collapse we'll get the government to give us money!"

And just to reinforce it:

[Elennsar]

In the couple years we buy at an excessively expensive price, we can watch the corporations and their rented out senators ensure that that nothing is fundementally changed because they don't want to change.

You're ripping a hole in one part of the wall and using the material to patch another part.

We need reform yesterday, not a government with a skyrocketing debt and corporations eager to suck it for all its worth.

Yes, I'm a cynic. I'm a cynic because I don't have any reason to trust that the government is suddenly going to realize that it has let this go on far longer than it should have.

[Callix]

In the couple years we buy at an excessively expensive price, we can watch the corporations and their rented out senators ensure that that nothing is fundementally changed because they don't want to change.

You're ripping a hole in one part of the wall and using the material to patch another part.

We need reform yesterday, not a government with a skyrocketing debt and corporations eager to suck it for all its worth.

Yes, I'm a cynic. I'm a cynic because I don't have any reason to trust that the government is suddenly going to realize that it has let this go on far longer than it should have.

We need reform yesterday, but we're not going to get it. So the best solution is to stop the world collapsing today, and reform tomorrow. Call me an idealist if you will, but I don't want to drive the poor to the wall.

[AndyJames]

We need reform yesterday, but we're not going to get it. So the best solution is to stop the world collapsing today, and reform tomorrow. Call me an idealist if you will, but I don't want to drive the poor to the wall.

Some people don't care who gets hurt as long as their lust for vengeance is satisfied.