Author Topic: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!  (Read 19208 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

mltryman

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 35
When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« on: September 30, 2008, 11:28:56 PM »
Okay, so i just got done reading the beholder mage prc in the lords of madness and yes, i'm drooling. Well anyway i did some poking around on another forum to see if someone had figured out a way to do this without actually having to be a 13 HD monster and bugger up progression and play etc. Well someone has, but the post / method has been lost to some data issues. What i have been able to gleen is the use of Polymorph Any Object used on an Elan ...and some other stuff i don't know. The spell states that to be permanent the total modifier must be +9.
   Now i'm assuming that one would need to either have taken the Metamorphic Transfer feat twice before getting PAO'd to be able to get the eye rays and the antimagic eye thus qualifying for the PRC. Now i know that to get pao cast on said elan by said wizard npc would cost a mere 1,200 gp. But i'm pretty sure that would invalidate the Meta Trans simply because the elan isn't the one changing his/her own form even though it doesn't state that the subject of the feat must be the one who initiates the change RAW. Am i wrong? If so  (or even if not) can someone help me out here on how to get this done?   If i am right, then um .. yea... this little fella could be a beholder mage wreaking havoc as early as um ... 3rd level. Well 4th being the first actual BM level.

  *Looks around for the DM and cackles evily before hiding from any bolts of smiting*

woodenbandman

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2188
    • Email
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 11:31:32 PM »
Maybe a Baleful Polymorph would be better, but I don't know how much either costs. All I know is that Baleful Polymorph's permanent.

mltryman

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 35
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 11:39:41 PM »
Negative on the baleful polymorph as it limits the form a small or smaller size. Its mainly meant for disabling a foe but thanks!

Ubernoob

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2217
  • Happy Panda
    • Email
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2008, 12:45:10 AM »
Sounds like the first of LoP's dirty tricks.  I'll repost it if someone doesn't beat me to it by the time my Pledge meeting is over.
Ubernoob is a happy panda.

Callix

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 622
  • Not cool enough for a custom title.
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2008, 01:23:35 AM »
Sounds like the first of LoP's dirty tricks.  I'll repost it if someone doesn't beat me to it by the time my Pledge meeting is over.
Archive seems to be busted.

Here's the rundown: Use Polymorph Any Object to become a Beholder. This will last for a few minutes. Then get another casting to make you into a beholder with fangs one-eighteenth of an inch longer. This will be permanent, so you are now permanently a beholder. Put out your central eye (which, BTW, doesn't emit an AMF, so you may need Metamorphic Transfer to have an antimagic eye to put out), then start taking Beholder Mage levels. You can't shoot eye rays, but you couldn't do that anyway, and now you have spellstalks!
I know gameology-fu.

Runestar

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 820
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2008, 01:46:59 AM »
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think you won't get the beholder's flight with PAO, leaving you with a base 5-ft crawl. Is this correct?

And I am not sure if multiple PAOs stack either. So you probably have to go elan.
A clear conscience is the surest sign of a failing memory.

mltryman

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 35
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2008, 02:37:59 AM »
Correct, .. start with an elan ... take metamorphic transfer twice (flight, and central eye), then PAO into a beholder which will be permanent due to modifiers. Got it! Now Metamorphic transfer takes a Manifestor level 5, what LA races have innate psionic manifesting etc?

awaken DM golem

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3294
  • PAO'd my Avatar
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2008, 06:04:39 PM »
Yep.
Lord of Procrastination's Dirty Trick #1 ; and it got the White Screen Of Death due to the G-Zero reorg. Ugh.

The major discovery since then, is PAO once to be the new form, then PAO the second time to make it permanent.
And being an Elan, or any other (aberation) -type, just needs the one PAO.

Definitely need the 2 metamorphic transfer Feats to get to the Eyestalks,
but I'm a little shaky on all the details. Have to put out the central eye.
Flight ?
Who needs flight ?!
When you're that good, just roll. { ... insert rotfL smiley face ... }

EDIT: as the above posters noted.

**

How early?
Getting the MT feat requires: Wis 13 easy, ML of 5 not so easy.
Psiotheurgist feat from Dragon #349 can do it in one school/discipline link.
Could get an Assume Supernatural Ability feat from Savage Species.

Elan Cleric 1 / Ardent 1 / Erudite or PsyWar 1
Use 3rd level feat, and PsyWar bonus feat for MTs.
Stuff CL boosters, and ML boosters on the Cleric 1 and Ardent 1 part, and flaws.
Entry into Beholder Mage, take 2 levels.
Then Cerebremancer / Mystic Theurge / Ur-Priest / whatever.

I think it was Think0028 who posted on the old TO-board, the triple 9s build.
Didn't require early entry into Beholder Mage

Details , hmm ...

Akalsaris

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1143
    • Email
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2008, 08:05:26 PM »
Alternatively, without using LoP's dirty tricks, but sadly using a 3.0 feat and valid only during wildshape:

Dwarf Druid 11/Beholder Mage 2/Arcane Hierophant 7
Books:
Lords of Madness (Duh!)
Savage Species
Races of the Wild
Spell Compendium (optional, but the Enhanced Wildshape spell will let you fly instead of rolling along...)

Feats:
Char 1: Aberration Blood (Flexible Limbs seems best)
Char 3: Open (I like Inhuman Reach if you can retrain it at 12th to something else)
Char 6: Wild Spell
Char 9: Aberration Wildshape
Char 12: Assume Supernatural Ability (Antimagic Cone)
Char 15: Practiced Spellcaster (Beholder Mage)
Char 18: Practiced Spellcaster (Druid)

On a sidenote, the SRD doesn't have beholders, so I'm stuck with my 3.0 MM listing beholders as 11HD - please forgive the error if they've been bumped to 13HD as another poster mentioned.  This build gets double 9th level spells by 20th level anyhow, and Arcane Hierophant is really an awesome PrC that I hadn't noticed before.

mltryman

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 35
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2008, 09:30:27 PM »

How early?
Getting the MT feat requires: Wis 13 easy, ML of 5 not so easy.
Psiotheurgist feat from Dragon #349 can do it in one school/discipline link.
Could get an Assume Supernatural Ability feat from Savage Species.

Elan Cleric 1 / Ardent 1 / Erudite or PsyWar 1
Use 3rd level feat, and PsyWar bonus feat for MTs.
Stuff CL boosters, and ML boosters on the Cleric 1 and Ardent 1 part, and flaws.
Entry into Beholder Mage, take 2 levels.
Then Cerebremancer / Mystic Theurge / Ur-Priest / whatever.

I think it was Think0028 who posted on the old TO-board, the triple 9s build.
Didn't require early entry into Beholder Mage

Details , hmm ...


That works and all, although the Assume Super Nat ability requires to have wild shape as a class feature so thats out.. unless one takes the Divine Minion Template as said elan, pays for said PAO at 3rd level. Using flaws take ASNA 3 times at 1st level (flaw x2, 1st level feat), and something else at 3rd. Well whatta ya kow, starting at 4th level you can begin taking beholder mage levels and weep as no one will help you since you look like a floating orb of death lol. although i suppose you could use alter self etc to look.. um .. normal .. when you go into town. That'd be the only problem i could see atm, doing anything even remotely close to civilized interaction with the general populace lol. *dances around*

Akalsaris

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1143
    • Email
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2008, 10:14:06 PM »
Now the only trick is to find a game with PCs and a DM that will let you do it! 

As a sidenote, taking Assume Supernatural Ability doesn't require wildshape, only a way of changing your form similar to Polymorph.  I recall seeing a 1st level druid spell somewhere that turned you into an owl, for example.  You'd probably only need the feat once, since you don't really need eye beams that badly as they will eventually turn into spellstalks.

mltryman

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 35
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2008, 10:53:18 PM »
Hrmm looked over things a bit and taking Assume Supernatural Ability x2 would net the flight and the anti-magic eye of the beholder, both of which can be gained by using flaws at 1st level. The using the 1st level feat itself, take Improved assume supernatural ability to negate the penalties. Thus allowing the beholder mage progression to start as soon as you could afford to pay for the PAO spell. Seeing as how it would only cost 1,200 gold pieces the earliest i can think of to pay for it would be 3rd level. Anyone know how to get it done earlier? And i've already got a group that'll let me do it lol, just need to get it to fit in as early as possible.

*edit* perhaps as a background story a human who had unwittingly set fire to his "school barracks" by accident, thus killing the 5 fellow students inside was given a 2nd chance to start over by the Elan council due to seeing the potential for good within his/her soul. After awakening from the transformation he recovers his cash stash from the school that he/she had hidden (to run away with because he/she was scared) which just so happens to total in at 1,200 gp lol.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 11:04:51 PM by mltryman »

Akalsaris

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1143
    • Email
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2008, 11:02:30 PM »
1st level as a mage and charm/hypnotize a 3rd level NPC for the money?

Also, I think their fly is Ex, not Su.

mltryman

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 35
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2008, 11:08:00 PM »
actually the fly is just a movement method they have.. its not listed as su, ex, or anything of the such. Looking over the PAO spell, which refers to the Polymorph spell... thus refering to Alter Self; none of which say you don't gain the movement speeds so i would assume you do. Otherwise you'll just be rolling around lol.

ZeroSum

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2008, 11:41:02 PM »
They see me rollin'...

mltryman

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 35
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2008, 11:52:14 PM »
So yes, this is do-able as a 2nd level character due to the DM template.  And i don't think templates can be bought off using the UA rules (just races). Which i just realized, means at level 10 he/she would be casting 9th level spells as a 20th level caster, with up to 10 free spell / round.  *shudders* They see us rollin' indeed! Trying to catch us rollin dirty! And you can bet yer pretty little ass this has dirty broken all over it.

*edit* did i mention that these spell all require no components etc and if it has an expensive cost that its really only 1/25th of the gp cost in xp?

JaronK

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4039
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2008, 12:05:47 AM »
actually the fly is just a movement method they have.. its not listed as su, ex, or anything of the such.

If it's not listed, it's a natural ability... most movement modes are unless otherwise specified.  I believe you do get natural ability movement speeds.

JaronK

Akalsaris

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1143
    • Email
Re: When i grow up .. i want to be a beholder mage!
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2008, 12:15:38 AM »
All of the flying Beholderkin in Lords of Madness have flight listed as an (Ex) ability, and in the 3.0 MM it's listed as an (Ex) ability - so it's  really quite bizarre that it wouldn't be listed as such in the 3.5 version.