Author Topic: Illusionist for the CO PbP  (Read 5800 times)

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Tshern

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Illusionist for the CO PbP
« on: May 18, 2008, 08:37:03 PM »
Assuming I qualify that is. I plan on going Shadowcraft Mage route should we ever get that far in the game. I have my heart set on Focused specialist, but I would like to avoid using Incantatrix as dropping yet another school would be too painful for my little brain. This build assumes I am not allowed to pick up Spontaneous divination, so it might not be final.

[spoiler]Focused Illusionist 3/Master Specialist 4/Shadowcraft Mage 3/Illusionist +2/Shadowcraft Mage +2/Shadow Adept 1/Shadowcrafter 5
Str:10-2
Dex:12
Con:15+2
Int:18+2
Wis:14-2
Cha:8

Feats: Spell focus (Illusion), Greater spell focus (illusion), Skill focus (Spellcraft), Tomb-tainted soul (flaw), Collegiate Wizard (flaw) Heighten spell, Earth sense, Earth spell,  Arcane disciple (luck), Shadow weave magic

I plan on taking the Gnome Illusionist substitution level and lower by CL for Abjuration or Transmutation as I won't be using a lot of spells from those school at first level anyway. I also need to bump my wisdom score at level 4 to get Earth sense.[/spoiler]

So my major questions are: Should I keep my familiar or change it for something like Chains of Disbelief? If I get Spontaneous divination as written, should I scrap my Minor school esoterica (tasty +2 to Will disbelieve DCs)? And finally, what did I do wrong?

This my first serious jab at a Shadowcraft Mage, so all ideas are welcome. The game starts at level one and I have 200gp at my disposal and I consider buying a riding dog for general utility and defense. All official material goes as you might know.

Want to give your take on this?

Build, a more elaborate version of:
[spoiler]
Arcane Gnome Focused Illusionist 1

Small humanoid
Hit Dice: 1d4+3 (7)
Initiative: +2 (dex)
Speed: 20ft
Armor Class: 11  Touch: 11 Flat-footed: 11
Base Attack/Grapple: 0/-5
Attack: +0 Quarterstaff
Full Attack: +0 Quarterstaff
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Qualities:
Saves: Fort: +3 Refl: +1 Will: +3
Abilities: Str: 8 Dex: 12 Con: 17 Int: 20 Wis: 12 Cha: 8
Skills in ranks: Bluff 2, Concentration 4, Hide 2 Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (the planes) 4, Spellcraft 4, Use magic device 4
Feats: Collegiate Wizard, Spell focus (illusion), Tomb-tainted soul
Flaws: Noncombatant, Vulnerable
Environment:
Organization: Solitary (unique) or an adventuring party
Challenge Rating: 1
Alignment: Lawful evil
Languages Spoken: Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Giant, Gnome, Elven, Orc
Level Adjustment: +0
 

Possessions:

Spells prepared:
0:
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:
8:
9:

Spells known:
0:
1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:
8:
9:

Character background:[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 09:43:46 PM by Tshern »

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AlterFrom

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2008, 10:17:18 PM »
If you're putting so much focus on Illusions, Chains of Disbelief looks pretty good. Personally, I'd go for it; I hardly ever find a good use for my familiar (only recently started playing a high-level wiz, maybe Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability will turn out to be more usefel than I thought).

I don't see what's so great about Spontaneous Divination. *shrug* I'd take your minor esoterica; that +2 is so nice. Maybe someone else can explain what's so good about it, especially if you can cast outside the sorc/wiz spell list.

The racial substitution level(s) looks good. Really good. It looks like a tossup between abjuration and transmutation for what to give up at first level. They both have such nice low-level spells.

[EDIT]: Also, I'd look at doing something other than a riding dog with your money. I'd but good odds on one of your party members being able to pick up whatever slack your riding dog would've.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 10:24:03 PM by AlterFrom »
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Tshern

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2008, 10:30:23 PM »
Well, I mainly have my eyes on Guidance of the Avatar and Divine insight that are crazy at low levels and aftercrescent told I can use Spontaneous divination to cast spells outside my own list.

I have a STR penalty, so I am a bit worried about my carrying capacity before I can acquire a Handy Haversack in a few levels. I could use saddle bags to carry my stuff and even ride on the dog to offset my 20ft movement speed. If I have to resort to crossbowing at low levels, I can always ride further away on my dog, shoot and reload in a single round. It seems like a very versatile option to me. I am willing to change my riding dog away if needed though.

I don't see Abjuration as too strong a school at level one, especially since I have to pack my first level spells with illusion stuff anyway, because of the Focused Specialist variant that costs me one of my 'normal' slots and gives two illusion ones. I think I'll get three illusion spells and a single spell from the other schools at first level. Not sure, but I think that is the case. I'd probably use that for Mage armor to for an emergency or something that suits the campaign in case it introduces conditions that call for special measures.

Thanks for the feedback!

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Bozwevial

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2008, 10:33:18 PM »
If you're putting so much focus on Illusions, Chains of Disbelief looks pretty good. Personally, I'd go for it; I hardly ever find a good use for my familiar (only recently started playing a high-level wiz, maybe Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability will turn out to be more usefel than I thought).

I don't see what's so great about Spontaneous Divination. *shrug* I'd take your minor esoterica; that +2 is so nice. Maybe someone else can explain what's so good about it, especially if you can cast outside the sorc/wiz spell list.

The racial substitution level(s) looks good. Really good. It looks like a tossup between abjuration and transmutation for what to give up at first level. They both have such nice low-level spells.

[EDIT]: Also, I'd look at doing something other than a riding dog with your money. I'd but good odds on one of your party members being able to pick up whatever slack your riding dog would've.

Spontaneous Divination, IIRC, doesn't specify that you need to know the spell, or even that it be arcane. Of course, eventually this build will be able to spontaneously cast Miracle for almost any spell, but it's nice to be able to use a lower level spell slot to cast divination spells.

Maybe Arcane Thesis (Silent Image)? How does that react with Heighten Spell?


AfterCrescent

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2008, 10:36:42 PM »
If you're putting so much focus on Illusions, Chains of Disbelief looks pretty good. Personally, I'd go for it; I hardly ever find a good use for my familiar (only recently started playing a high-level wiz, maybe Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability will turn out to be more usefel than I thought).

I don't see what's so great about Spontaneous Divination. *shrug* I'd take your minor esoterica; that +2 is so nice. Maybe someone else can explain what's so good about it, especially if you can cast outside the sorc/wiz spell list.

The racial substitution level(s) looks good. Really good. It looks like a tossup between abjuration and transmutation for what to give up at first level. They both have such nice low-level spells.

[EDIT]: Also, I'd look at doing something other than a riding dog with your money. I'd but good odds on one of your party members being able to pick up whatever slack your riding dog would've.

Spontaneous Divination, IIRC, doesn't specify that you need to know the spell, or even that it be arcane. Of course, eventually this build will be able to spontaneously cast Miracle for almost any spell, but it's nice to be able to use a lower level spell slot to cast divination spells.

Maybe Arcane Thesis (Silent Image)? How does that react with Heighten Spell?

AT increases your CL by 2 for that spell, but has no effect on HS.
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Tshern

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2008, 10:40:07 PM »
No, it doesn't state that it has to be from my list or arcane, but that is a common subject for houserules. This time I can use any spell, but if it is on Wizards list, I have to use that version of it. I am still kind of stuck, as that Minor School Esoterica is made of awesome and getting early access to Greater spell focus would be golden as Silent image allows a will save. Maybe I will mostly disregard divination, get a Artificer's monocle for Identifies and call it a day.

Should I eventually take Residual metamagic for additional tomfoolery?

Also, I just realized I want Collegiate Wizard. I really, really do. Now I have two open feats left.

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Bozwevial

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2008, 10:44:26 PM »
No, it doesn't state that it has to be from my list or arcane, but that is a common subject for houserules. This time I can use any spell, but if it is on Wizards list, I have to use that version of it. I am still kind of stuck, as that Minor School Esoterica is made of awesome and getting early access to Greater spell focus would be golden as Silent image allows a will save. Maybe I will mostly disregard divination, get a Artificer's monocle for Identifies and call it a day.

Should I eventually take Residual metamagic for additional tomfoolery?

Also, I just realized I want Collegiate Wizard. I really, really do.

Residual Metamagic? Yes, yes, and more yes.

Collegiate Wizard? If you can squeeze it in, it would be nice. I personally love Collegiate Wizard because I never have enough spells known for my taste. However it might become redundant with spontaneous shadow miracles, spontaneous shadow evocation/conjuration spells, and (maybe) spontaneous divination. Although personally, Tshern, I'd stick with the minor esoterica.

Tshern

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2008, 10:57:36 PM »
Thanks for the feedback again.

I wish I could have a trillion flaws. No way I can squeeze all the feats in, especially if we are getting a Dread Necro to join the party, which calls for Tomb-tainted soul. I know I am weak, but infinite healing IS hard to resist, right?

Anyway I could cram in all these feats? I hate even thinking about Incantatrix eating another spell school. So far I have this:
1. Tomb-tainted soul, Spell focus, Collegiate Wizard
3. Heighten spell
6. Earth sense
9. Earth spell
12. Signature spell
15. Residual metamagic
18. Arcane disciple

That means scrapping Shadow weave magic and grants me another level to play with as I lose access to Shadow Adept. Any thoughts?

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2008, 11:04:01 PM »
Spontaneous Divination is so far superior to two levels of Shadowcrafter that I am honestly amused that you even asked.

Chains of Disbelief is likewise better than the thing for which you trade it.

Tshern

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2008, 11:07:48 PM »
Spontaneous Divination is so far superior to two levels of Shadowcrafter that I am honestly amused that you even asked.

Chains of Disbelief is likewise better than the thing for which you trade it.
So the master enters the arena!

Where would you place those two last Wizard levels then? I would rather go to Master Specialist as soon as possible to grab Greater spell focus, but how do you see that choice? On top of the two last Shadowcrafter levels I have yet another free level due to losing Shadow Adept. Assuming I replaced Shadowcrafter levels with two additional levels of Wizard, what would you recommend as a replacement for Shadow Adept?

Chains of Disbelief it is then. That is pretty much what I figured and I don't have too much resources and no feats to optimize my familiar in the first place. Sometimes you have to give in, eh?

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Tshern

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2008, 08:25:26 PM »
Bumping this hoping to get some helps to the latest questions outlined in my previous post. Any takers this time?

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2008, 10:02:24 PM »
umm the only thing that I could suggest is maybe going silverbrow human instead and going for snowcasting and draconic aura (cold) to increase the DC by 4.

Tshern

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2008, 10:03:55 PM »
Shadowcraft Mage is gnome only, so that kind of limits the options with races. Thanks for the idea, but doesn't work here.

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2008, 12:10:06 AM »
Shadowcraft Mage is gnome only, so that kind of limits the options with races. Thanks for the idea, but doesn't work here.
Stoneblessed covers everything if you can find some way to suck up the lost caster levels.... o.O
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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2008, 12:15:45 AM »
Shadowcraft Mage is gnome only, so that kind of limits the options with races. Thanks for the idea, but doesn't work here.

You could try Tinker Gnome for +2 Int
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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2008, 12:23:55 AM »
Uh, maybe I missed it, but what schools are you dropping?

Since you're taking a hit in some schools, you'd probably want to drop those...

Evocation obviously, I'd cringe at conjuration, but you can replicate some of it, maybe abjuration because of hits?

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2008, 12:34:43 AM »
All I have to add is that Whisper Gnome is always strictly better than a standard gnome.

The rest looks fine.
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Tshern

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2008, 06:59:27 PM »
Uh, maybe I missed it, but what schools are you dropping?

Since you're taking a hit in some schools, you'd probably want to drop those...

Evocation obviously, I'd cringe at conjuration, but you can replicate some of it, maybe abjuration because of hits?
Necromancy, evocation and enchantment. We are going to have a Dread Necromancer, who takes care of the two first ones and I am not too much of an enchantment fan. It'll take too long for me to be able to chuck Shadow conjurations. It's a PbP starting at level one, so...

Quote from: Infinitive
All I have to add is that Whisper Gnome is always strictly better than a standard gnome.

The rest looks fine.
I agree in a way, but I am not going to invest in sneak skills anyway and that +2 dexterity seems inferior to +1 to illusion DCs. I am considering Forest gnome though.

Quote from: skydragonknight
You could try Tinker Gnome for +2 Int
Source?

Quote from: aftercrescent
Stoneblessed covers everything if you can find some way to suck up the lost caster levels.... o.O
No I can't. No-one does.

Thanks for the input.

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AfterCrescent

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2008, 07:22:23 PM »
Tinkers are in Dragonlance. If you need the info PM me or sdk. :)
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Tshern

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Re: Illusionist for the CO PbP
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2008, 07:25:59 PM »
Tinkers are in Dragonlance. If you need the info PM me or sdk. :)
I can access that, my friend has it covered. Thanks for the information.

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