Optimizing Pathfinder?

[Pan-Fried Hamster]

Alright, here's the situation: a friend of mine is interested in DMing a FR campaign using Pathfinder rules.  He's unsure of what other sources to allow, but we're looking at running it together by alternating short plot arcs and switching the DM role back and forth.

For those unfamiliar with the Pathfinder rules variant, the .pdf of the rules is available for free, here.

Right now we're still trying to drum up interest, but here's what's down so far:

All attributes start at 10.  25 points to add to them, no stat higher than 18 before racial bonuses.  Right now we're also doing no stat lower than 10, it's strictly adding.  I'm tempted to dial it back a bit given Pathfinder is pretty much a boost in all regards.

Starting level is 3.  Max HP for first three levels.

Sources are up in the air.  I'm pushing for "allow anything except 3rd party and we'll deal with issues as they arise," my friend isn't so sure.

Party makeup is a work-in-progress, but we have one Human Barbarian, I'm looking at an Elven Fighter/Wizard/EK, and my friend is eying a Human Rogue/Wizard (Conjurer for the at-will ranged touch dart).  Of the three of us so far, I'm the optimizer (I know gish is sub-optimal, that's partly to ease the difference), and I'd like appreciate any advice people may have for any of the three characters.

The Barbarian is currently debating what choices to take for his Rage ability.  The Rogue/Wizard is interested in checking out Skill Tricks and the cross-class feat (I think it's Arcane Spellthief?) in CSc.  We're also looking to add more people, especially since it's likely that the Rogue-Wizard and Fighter-Wizard will be trading places as my friend and I switch between who's DMing.

My build:
Ftr 1 / Wiz 6 / SS 1 / Wiz +2 [8] / ABJ 5 /EK 5

STR 17
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 20
WIS 10
CHA 10

This nets me the level 8 Universal School ability to spontaneously apply Metamagic.  I end up with 16 BAB, 18 CL, and 11 F / 6 R / 13 W saves.  It's not epic-ready, but that doesn't matter much to me since I doubt we'll get there.  I'm going with an Item over a Familiar since I won't be taking Wizard to 20, and the spontaneous slot is GREAT.

Feats are Power Attack & Combat Reflexes, Knowledge Devotion, Smiting & Sculpt Spell, Minor Shapeshift, Arcane Strike (the Pathfinder version, debating where to move that since it's available earlier), Quicken Spell, Robilar's Gambit, and the last slot is a toss-up.  Leaning towards Practiced Spellcaster over Leap Attack.  I'll be taking the Collector of Stories skill trick to boost my checks for Knowledge Devotion as well.

Overall, I'm a bit unsure about where/if to take Power Attack and Arcane Strike since they've changed, and I may well chuck Leap Attack entirely in favor of Craft Wondrous Item or something that's more party-friendly and less "look at me hit things like a freight train" spotlighty--unless, of course, I can help optimize the rest of the group to a similar degree.

[Ubernoob]

PA and Arcane Strike were nerfed beyond using.  My suggestion is to just never lose any CLs and focus on your magic while picking up a few combat feats and maybe hitting 15 BAB.  PF gimps full bab classes so hard that wizards who dabble in melee will outdo them without losing any CL.

Seriously, don't lose any CL.  You can rock out with just Wiz 8/ Unseen Seer 4/ AC 5/ X 3

Don't lose CL, and don't blow feats on anything in the PF book.

CWI is good because you can fall behind a level and equip yourself to way more than make up the difference.

[Pan-Fried Hamster]

Unseen Seer has some steep skill requirements with the Pathfinder rules, and it costs me a CL for non-divination arcane spells.  Is it really worth it?

[Ubernoob]

Unseen Seer has some steep skill requirements with the Pathfinder rules, and it costs me a CL for non-divination arcane spells.  Is it really worth it?

I like unseen seer.  You can use any prestige class that is full CL in there if you want.  A good alternative is incantatrix or fatespinner.  Those both make great four level dips (well, incantatrix is good for all ten).

[Sunic_Flames]

Correction: PF nerfs all melee so hard while claiming to have buffed them you might as well delete them from the game. Likewise, they buffed casters while claiming to have nerfed them.

[Pan-Fried Hamster]

Hm.  Alright then, I'll lobby for Book of Nine Swords instead.  Is there anything worth *keeping* in Pathfinder, or any changes (such as bringing back the old Power Attack) that would help?  The Shapechange/Alter Self/Polymorph changes seem on the surface liked they'd be for the better, but there are so many alternatives out there that seems impossible to really balance full casters.  The PA nerf strikes me as unnecessary, I miss the old Arcane Strike as a way to burn off excess spells, and it does look like the caster buffs are substantially better than anything the melee classes got.

[Ubernoob]

Hm.  Alright then, I'll lobby for Book of Nine Swords instead.  Is there anything worth *keeping* in Pathfinder, or any changes (such as bringing back the old Power Attack) that would help?  The Shapechange/Alter Self/Polymorph changes seem on the surface liked they'd be for the better, but there are so many alternatives out there that seems impossible to really balance full casters.  The PA nerf strikes me as unnecessary, I miss the old Arcane Strike as a way to burn off excess spells, and it does look like the caster buffs are substantially better than anything the melee classes got.

Frankly, just look at what got banned.  Not rewritten.  Banned.  Better to play 3.5 then 3.P from a balance point of view.  What good came from 3.P can be written up with the following rule:
Gentleman's rule) Don't use shit that you know is broken.  Don't fuck up my game.

[Sunic_Flames]

I don't consider their arcane strike as a replacement. I see it as something entirely different that happens to have the same name. The devs think crafting isn't awesome and Whirlwind attack is, just to give you a measure of their competence and knowledge. Why would they know what a good feat is and where?

As ubernoob said, the only things they really fixed is the TO material that never sees play in a normal game, or a practical optimization game. Which is nice, but nothing anyone with an IQ over 60 can't do just as well. The basic idea of giving melee more options is sound, but this is again anyone above a medically retarded level can come up with on their own, and Tome of Battle predates it and does it far better. Their execution fails miserably, while tricking new players into believing otherwise with more Newbie Traps. Idiots fall into those too, but no one cares about them.

[Eldariel]

I suggest you all read Freedom of Movement, btw. Get a Ring of it ASAP. It says you automatically win all combat maneuver checks. It doesn't limit you to defensive checks. So grapple/trip/whatever away! Grapple Tarrasque? Nooo problem! Pin it? Still no problem! Fair? Totally!

[Sunic_Flames]

I suggest you all read Freedom of Movement, btw. Get a Ring of it ASAP. It says you automatically win all combat maneuver checks. It doesn't limit you to defensive checks. So grapple/trip/whatever away! Grapple Tarrasque? Nooo problem! Pin it? Still no problem! Fair? Totally!

It doesn't say that.

[Eldariel]

Yea, it probably shouldn't. Still:


"Freedom of Movement
School abjuration; Level bard 4, cleric 4, druid 4, ranger 4
                 
Casting     
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a leather strip bound to the target), DF
               
Effect       
Range personal or touch
Target you or creature touched
Duration 10 min./level
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
               
Description
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack
normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of
magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog,
slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the
target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any
combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape
a grapple or a pin.

..."

[Braithwaite]

Uhm, its the last part of that sentence "made to escape a grapple or a pin." that shoots you down Eldariel.

Rule 1. Parse text. It could mean either
     a. Maneuvers and escape checks whenever either one is made to escape a grapple or pin OR
     b. All Maneuvers regardless of type, and escape checks for escaping pins.
so text is ambiguous. Go to rule 2.

Rule 2. What did the authors intend/what makes better sense? Freedom of Movement was obviously not meant to make you instantly able to grapple the Tarrasque. It doesn't make sense in terms of what the spell is supposed to do, and it would be vastly overpowering for an ability of that level.

[Pan-Fried Hamster]

Really... if your DM lets in the broken interpretation, then how did he/she/it acquire the cognitive functions required for rolling a d20?  If anyone tried that on me, I'd let them do it, and then follow it up with some suitably horrible and humorous demise.

[Eldariel]

It could easily be understood to also want to protect you against Trips and the like. But yea, on further review, since it isn't unambiguous, I suppose it's best not to abuse something that's clearly against the intent and just a result of a potentially misleading wording.