Sode #23: The 7 Things we hate about the Game-o-sphere (Meta 06)

[Halloween]

[Meg]

Hello!

So, I'm one of the FtB "sycophants" ...  :-\

I disagree.  You aren't a fawning fanboy just trying to gain their favor.  The fact this post is so well thought out and verbose, to me, makes you NOT a sycophant.

Is there a previous episode where it's discussed?

Not really.  We've poked at Ed Greenwood and Forgotten Realms a few times but decided to make this the sode where we say why we hate it.  It could be a topic in of itself though, so good suggestion!

As for FtB ... without disagreeing, I'm not sure your assessment is relevant.

I think this is actually a really good point.  And the "informal poll" mirrored exactly what we said-- it is regular, has good quality, and isn't boring.  I would absolutely agree with all of those points.

And this is where some of the reaction baffles me.  Someone being involved enough to respond to a point and talk about the product, even when disagreeing or offering negative critique is better than not saying something else.  Love and Hate are different heads of the same coin.  They both involve a passion, and personally, I'd choose passion over apathy any day. 

I can say that podcasts in which there is no show prep, no bumpers or theme, no editing what so ever ... just suck.

I mostly agree but not completely.  I don't believe in mainstreaming podcasts (or books or movies or anything).  I don't think there are a set of rules every podcast should follow.  I think each podcast should set a goal and then do what they can to meet a goal.

Most shows need all of those things, yes.  And most shows that don't have them I don't like either.  But, for example, I like the extremely casual interview style of Theory From the Closet.  I like the "kitchen table" low editing, semi-poor audio quality, no real intro or bumper, etc from Geek Girls Rule.  They each accomplish their goals well and are successful for it.

PS: I also live in New England! I currently live in the Hyde Park area of Boston. It's nice to have a little NE representation - not all gaming podcasts can be from Missouri.

No way!  Well you HAVE to come to JiffyCon then and stay tuned to other things we're doing and join up!  We've also extended the invitation to meet up with anyone so since you're pretty close (we're about 20 miles north), we've got to arrange for something!

Overall, thank you so much for your very well thought out comments.  This was great!  Welcome to our neck of the woods!  I really look forward to hearing your feedback on other episodes.

[Meg]

Hello Brilliant Gameologists,

Thought I'd drop a line (load?) here in amongst all the delicious and juicy hatred.

I can't even quote any more than this because I'll just break into hysterics.  Thank you.  This was fantastic.  So much so that we actually just read a piece of this on the episode we recorded tonight. 

Thank you and welcome!

[Zeke]

Hello Brilliant Gameologists,

Thought I'd drop a line (load?) here in amongst all the delicious and juicy hatred.

I can't even quote any more than this because I'll just break into hysterics.  Thank you.  This was fantastic.  So much so that we actually just read a piece of this on the episode we recorded tonight. 

Thank you and welcome!

I agree. My hat sir, is off to you.

[Oboe Cop]

+500 Points to Oboe Cop (Chris) for being rational, and then Dan the control freak shut down and locked the thread.

Actually it was locked more over the fact that it had strayed away from the original intent of the thread, and an effort to diffuse a situation before it became something it did not need to become.

[Halloween]

Hello Brilliant Gameologists,

Thought I'd drop a line (load?) here in amongst all the delicious and juicy hatred.

I can't even quote any more than this because I'll just break into hysterics.  Thank you.  This was fantastic.  So much so that we actually just read a piece of this on the episode we recorded tonight. 

Thank you and welcome!

I agree. My hat sir, is off to you.

Excellent! Just as planned...

[russlilly]

Hey Gameologists;

I was worried that your audience might have some serious problems with your hatred of such a popular podcast as FtB, and I wanted to extend to you my support in your opinion, as I did so long ago when you only had three episodes out and I was begging for more from you guys. It was great to find out that another group of people feel the same way I do about what FtB was once, what it is now, and who was really the driving force behind its entertaining quality.

I actually found this show while listening to FtB, and I've listened to every episode they've put out. I agree with what other people on these boards have said about them, that they are great for new podcast listeners, that their structure and regular release dates are attractive and slick. However, I also agree that Dan and Chad's self- and mutual-fellation is a constant annoyance, that they lost their best hosts when Adam, Luke, and Matt moved on to better things, and that their current content is rather lacking due to their detachment from the industry.

However, it seems like many of your listeners already agree with you, so I'll just leave it like that. But add my voice to the pile of Gameologist supporters.

Russ

[benbalestra]

Ah, see there's your problem-- you need to be watching Gallagher with us. 

Gallagher or Gallagher II, his twin brother started doing a rip off of his act.  Last I heard they were suing each other.

Ben

[Josh]

Also, you report not liking anyone's product reviews ... but your own. I have to strongly disagree with you here. While a lot of reviews are crap, basically just a "it sucked!" or "that rocks!" without much detail, there is one reviewer I really appreciate. First, what I'm looking for in a review is not the kind of criticism you find in a book of literary criticism. Instead, I'm looking for enough information to answer the question, "Do I want to run, play, and read this product enough to spend money on it?" So, the reviewer that consistently helps me answer that question is Carol from "All Games Considered." Her reviews are somewhat notorious for their length and thoroughness. After one of her reviews I have a very good idea what the setting, rules, and production quality of the product is like - then I can decide if it's something I want to spend money on.

I meant to comment on this point earlier but it got away from me.  So better late than never...

That review is in fact one of my key examples of how not to do a review.

It made several major technical mistakes

1. Way too long
2. Just said whats in the book.  Never makes any sort of analysis.
3. Brought up none of the bad aspects.  Even the best games have issues, not bringing them up demonstrates a lack of integrity
4. No technical appraisal, either of mechanics or ideas.
5. Was a fan girl, not an objective reviewer.

Also, frankly, I read the same book.  Poorly written, poor mechanics, moderate concept, poor execution of concept.  "Good try" is a stretch of the imagination.

[Shenanigans McGurk]

Yog-Sothoth.com

[Talen Lee]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Stop acting like having an opinion is a precursor to retaliation. Yeesh. You might not be agreed with, but nobody's going to call you a fuckwit just because you told us what you think.

Unless you told us 'You're all fuckwits.' That might earn you an angry response.

[Josh]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Stop acting like having an opinion is a precursor to retaliation. Yeesh. You might not be agreed with, but nobody's going to call you a fuckwit just because you told us what you think.

Unless you told us 'You're all fuckwits.' That might earn you an angry response.

Might.  But if it was well supported...

Here is the difference in paradigms:
Our point - It is bad to present poorly rendered ideas.
The other side - present whatever you like, it doesn't matter.

No matter what, someone is going to listen to what you say.  You don't tell kids "it's ok to not use condoms if you don't mind getting stds and/or pregnant."  You say "use condoms."

Furthermore if your entire claim is "what we say is merely our view and entirely without merit*."  It is utterly hypocritical to react poorly when someone says your views are without merit.

You cannot have things both ways.  Either you are a bunch of guys spouting shit OR you are making a real point that you would like to stand by and defend.


*because we believe that nothing has merit.

[Doctor X]

#6 thing we hate about the gameosphere- Fear the Boot (shock!  gasp!)

Just found out about the podcast, listening to them in order but had to skip to this one.  Forced to agree with much of what you've said.  "We hate heavy combat games, but best RPG evar: BATTLETECH!"

Also, does anyone else want to bash Chad's head in every time he pronounces "Shadowrun" with that hyphen that isn't there?

[adam]

Finally!  Someone panned me.  I was seriously waiting for this for awhile.  Meg pulls punches. 

That's right Meg, I came to your boards and said it. 

Let me explain:

I've got a different philosophy now.  Before, it was all about the product.  When I joined Back Seat Producers, Tony Mast taught me a very important philosophy: "If it's not fun, why do it?"

I may not be as focused or reserved as before, but I can guarantee you, I'm having more fun on the mics than a lot of hosts I know.  It's therapeutic now, which pleases me greatly.

Thanks for the feedback, though.  I don't want to get my own crew of sycophants. 

[Meg]

Also, does anyone else want to bash Chad's head in every time he pronounces "Shadowrun" with that hyphen that isn't there?

Having the mics on you makes you hyper aware of your own pronunciation flaws-- there is a whole thread about my pronunciation of words on these boards so I have a ton more respect for podcasters in general now and how difficult it is for anyone to sound perfect all of the time.  So no, I don't.

And Adam-- When I do an actual review of the Podgecast I won't pull punches, I promise 

[adam]

And Adam-- When I do an actual review of the Podgecast I won't pull punches, I promise 

I would lose respect for you if you did.
 
 

Man, we need smilies giving people the finger on my boards.

[Talen Lee]

Also, does anyone else want to bash Chad's head in every time he pronounces "Shadowrun" with that hyphen that isn't there?

Having the mics on you makes you hyper aware of your own pronunciation flaws-- there is a whole thread about my pronunciation of words on these boards so I have a ton more respect for podcasters in general now and how difficult it is for anyone to sound perfect all of the time.  So no, I don't.

Great, now I feel bad about it.

The thing is, there's a point at which pronunciation hassling is splitting the finest of hairs. I know what you mean when you say 'bolth.'

[PaulofCthulhu]

Yog-Sothoth.com

Thanks for listening to our games! We've been doing it for nearly six years now. How time flies!

Paul

[Dionysus]

Just finished listening. Funny and on the whole great.

part 7 - hilarious.

FtB - I still listen to them a lot. (actually i listen to BG, FtB, have Game will travel, and PodgeCast) Different opinions. I like to hear other peoples opinions and even though i might strongly disagree, I still enjoy all the above podcasts

World of Darkness... this is an odd one. I agree that i HATE the vampire stuff. the emo "the world hates me" just makes me feel ill. But.... I like the system to a large degree. I've played a number of games of the new World of Darkness as mortals (ie, no fancy vampires etc) and the games flow very nicely for the most part. I also like the Mage game add-on. Played some successful games with that too.

I suppose i like them as the games I played a lot before were Rolemaster, Call of Cthulu, and Runequest. getting away from the match calculations was good - also getting away from linear probability was good too. Basically i like the system because at its core its simple enough to play fast, and complex enough to deal with most situations.

yes, there are some places where it falls down on its face - hard. But I dont feel how other people behave has much impact on my own group enjoy the game/system.

All the same, I'd love to play an "in a wicked age..." campaign, or "houses of the blooded", Or especially a full "Mouse Guard" campaign!

[Josh]

World of Darkness... this is an odd one. I agree that i HATE the vampire stuff. the emo "the world hates me" just makes me feel ill. But.... I like the system to a large degree. I've played a number of games of the new World of Darkness as mortals (ie, no fancy vampires etc) and the games flow very nicely for the most part. I also like the Mage game add-on. Played some successful games with that too.

I suppose i like them as the games I played a lot before were Rolemaster, Call of Cthulu, and Runequest. getting away from the match calculations was good - also getting away from linear probability was good too. Basically i like the system because at its core its simple enough to play fast, and complex enough to deal with most situations.

yes, there are some places where it falls down on its face - hard. But I dont feel how other people behave has much impact on my own group enjoy the game/system.

All the same, I'd love to play an "in a wicked age..." campaign, or "houses of the blooded", Or especially a full "Mouse Guard" campaign!

I think that as you explore the modern world of RPG's you will discover that WoD is not particularly simple or well rounded in comparison.