Author Topic: Shadowrun Thread  (Read 11587 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tazendra

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
Shadowrun Thread
« on: May 18, 2008, 02:40:49 PM »
A couple of us have mentioned Shadowrun in various threads on the boards, so I thought I'd start a dedicated Shadowrun thread.

What's everyone's opinion of the new edition? Personally, I'm probably a bit too invested in the older editions to truly appreciate it. I really want to like it, but so far, haven't  been able to get past all the things that don't work the same. Anybody have thoughts on the game that might convince me to give it a chance?

pfooti

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
  • Pants are for Suckers
    • /castrandom - even we don't know what it's about
    • Email
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2008, 05:01:34 PM »
As I said in the other thread, I'm kind of in your boat. I played a TON of 2e and 3e, both as player and GM, and a tiny amount of 1e (I got into it at about the 1e->2e transition, but I did have the 1e books). The 4e ruleset seemed to me to be a lot of changes to rules that more-or-less worked, for no real justifiable reason.

The new rules look okay, the character creation rules leaves clear room to grow (in 3e, the improvement curve seemed much flatter: you started out superhuman and just got a little better over time). But the change to the core mechanic success rolls just seem weird. I liked the rule of 6 and having crazy-high target numbers just for weirdnesses.

There was a rumor going round the 'net that 4e was going to be a d20 port, back when it was being worked on. Frankly, I'd be happier with SR using d20 rules instead of what we have now.

sumodawg

  • Monkey bussiness
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • Email
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2008, 12:42:54 AM »
stay away from 4th, don't waste your money or time.

This is not the game you are looking for. :D
Stay with 3rd or even 2nd SR.

Elephant Jack

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 57
    • Email
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2008, 10:42:32 AM »
stay away from 4th, don't waste your money or time.

This is not the game you are looking for. :D
Stay with 3rd or even 2nd SR.
Well, I disagree. I never played SR that much, neither as a player or a DM, but one thing I really like with the 4th edition: They streamlined the rules. Every single check is made the same way, much like d20. The system runs much smoother and faster then before. I'm not sure if I like all the changes they made, but I sure like the direction. If I have had more influence (I did some playtesting), I would've dropped the whole d6-thingy, it's just too anti-intuitiv.

The worst thing about 4th edition: No support! No books, no community... bad thing for a rpg IMHO. For an old fan: Definitively worth the look and: TRY THOSE RULES. They're better then the old.

So long,
EJ

Josh

  • Brilliant Gameologist
  • Grape ape
  • *
  • Posts: 1835
    • Email
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2008, 04:13:09 AM »
Tiered character creation was innovative and interesting.  You could make a character who was a skill guy or a money guy or a wizard or a troll.  Now it is lame point buy.

You used to have to divide attack and defense dice.  So you always sacrificed defense for attack.

Initiative used to be really interesting as well.

essentially the game is now just GURPs with a cyber punk + magic setting.
Ennies Nominees - Best Podcast 2009

Elephant Jack

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 57
    • Email
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2008, 05:17:02 AM »
Mh...
ok, tiered character creation _was_ indeed interesting and it probably worked out quite good. This is indeed a lost shadowrun specific rule.

I'm not quite sure which combat rules are better; I guess I call this a tie. With one big exception: Initiative. If there ever was one thing with shadowrun which had to be fixed, it was initiative. The bad thing: It has not been fixed at all! It can't be good if some characters act twice or thrice as often as their fellow buddies on _any given combat turn_. Sure, it's quite cool if you're the punk with those three or even four actions, but this shatters game balance. So: Initiative _was_ and probably _is_ interesting and probably the worst game mechanic since the multiattack routine from AD&D 2nd Edition.

I guess I'll have to have a closer look at GURPS before I can comment your last point; I guess you're right with this.

EJ

Josh

  • Brilliant Gameologist
  • Grape ape
  • *
  • Posts: 1835
    • Email
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2008, 12:38:37 PM »
To be clear btw, I think shadowrun is playable.  Unlike say, Firefly or Cthulhutech. 

I just have a hard time choosing an OK game over an awesome one.
Ennies Nominees - Best Podcast 2009

Tazendra

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2008, 10:25:30 AM »
The dice splitting is one of my biggest beefs with the new edition. In SR3, two low level mages could take out a much more powerful mage by forcing the powerful mage to use his spell pool dice for defense. One would go mostly defense and counter the powerful mage's spells, the other could go mostly offense. The powerful mage had to choose how much of his pool to use to defend each mage's spells seperately. In SR4, the powerful mage can counter an infinite number of lower powered mage's spells without breaking a sweat, without affecting his casting ability at all.  I think that's a shame.

tarbrush

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 44
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2008, 07:04:52 PM »
So if you wanted to run a game with the Shadowrun fluff, what ruleset would you choose?  Leaving aside the fact that choosing a SR edition would get you ready statted monsters etc.

Josh

  • Brilliant Gameologist
  • Grape ape
  • *
  • Posts: 1835
    • Email
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2008, 08:16:28 PM »
So if you wanted to run a game with the Shadowrun fluff, what ruleset would you choose?  Leaving aside the fact that choosing a SR edition would get you ready statted monsters etc.

If you were going to play it as an AA game as quick as posible, savage worlds.  If you wanted to sit down and work out the details  for an AA game the best toolbox would be True20/saga edition Hack.  (but if you like Spirit of the Century that would also work)

Going beyond that, the only good dramatic game on the market is Burning Wheel.  Conversion would be a big job.  Others I would only recommend if you already liked them.
Ennies Nominees - Best Podcast 2009

tsuyoshikentsu

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
    • For My Mother: An Internet Serial
    • Email
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2008, 08:41:54 PM »
The worst thing about 4th edition: No support! No books, no community... bad thing for a rpg IMHO. For an old fan: Definitively worth the look and: TRY THOSE RULES. They're better then the old.

Where you been, EJ?  They've got... let's see.  BBB (Core), Runner Havens, Corporate Enclaves, Street Magic, Augmentation, Arsenal, and a few adventure paths.  (Unwired is in the works, as well as a Runner's Guide.)

Oh, and DumpShock.
Anyway, this cake is great!  It's so delicious and moist.

Stalk me on Twitter!  Validate my existence!  Maybe Even Get An Optimization Tip!

Slate

  • Guest
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2008, 10:18:43 PM »
I have so much Shadowrun material I practically had 7th edition back when they just came out with 3rd.

4th is really disappointing.

Zeke

  • Brilliant Gameologist
  • Bi-Curious George
  • *
  • Posts: 540
    • Email
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2008, 01:53:24 AM »
I loved Shadow run. I think it has had a huge impact on game design over the yuears, from tiered character creation to some of it's combat mechanics. Also, it's a GREAT world. I especially liked how they gave you a huge world but only focussed on small areas at a time. It's  a pity they no longer publish it auf Deutsch.

Slate

  • Guest
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2008, 11:57:42 PM »
Long story short, had a couple of D&D players not able to show so we played SR instead.

A TON of fun.

The other player's had played years ago and their unfamiliarity with rules allowed them to really, really just RP for pure fun and that made it all the better.  Good times.

Things to note: Trolls with extra dermal armor are RIDICULOUSLY tough, lol.

Kuroimaken

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 6733
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2008, 03:57:09 AM »
I'm only now getting into SR, so I wouldn't be able to comment on rules specifically, but I loved the whole fluff in the 4th edition. It's all just kinda in your face, but without slapping you around. You CAN be an all-natural guy even though a street sammy will still rip you to shreds. Still, I'm not really well "in the know" yet, so I'll withdraw further comment...
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Josh

  • Brilliant Gameologist
  • Grape ape
  • *
  • Posts: 1835
    • Email
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2008, 11:26:10 PM »
I'm only now getting into SR, so I wouldn't be able to comment on rules specifically, but I loved the whole fluff in the 4th edition. It's all just kinda in your face, but without slapping you around. You CAN be an all-natural guy even though a street sammy will still rip you to shreds. Still, I'm not really well "in the know" yet, so I'll withdraw further comment...

The novels do a good job of setting up the world.
Ennies Nominees - Best Podcast 2009

Peaboo

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
    • Email
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2008, 06:10:06 AM »
So if you wanted to run a game with the Shadowrun fluff, what ruleset would you choose?  Leaving aside the fact that choosing a SR edition would get you ready statted monsters etc.

Earthdawn.


Elephant Jack

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 57
    • Email
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2008, 11:28:17 AM »
The worst thing about 4th edition: No support! No books, no community... bad thing for a rpg IMHO. For an old fan: Definitively worth the look and: TRY THOSE RULES. They're better then the old.

Where you been, EJ?  They've got... let's see.  BBB (Core), Runner Havens, Corporate Enclaves, Street Magic, Augmentation, Arsenal, and a few adventure paths.  (Unwired is in the works, as well as a Runner's Guide.)

Oh, and DumpShock.
Ok, I must admit: I was not aware how many books the published until I read your list. The only SplatBook I got was StreetMagic. Compared to many other RPGs the list is short, though. Thx for the link!

Quote from: Zeke
I loved Shadow run. I think it has had a huge impact on game design over the yuears, from tiered character creation to some of it's combat mechanics. Also, it's a GREAT world. I especially liked how they gave you a huge world but only focussed on small areas at a time. It's  a pity they no longer publish it auf Deutsch.
Yeah, this is indeed pretty bad - with DnD I always buy the english books, but I don't own a single english SR book...

Quote from: Slate
The other player's had played years ago and their unfamiliarity with rules allowed them to really, really just RP for pure fun and that made it all the better.  Good times
Sounds like a good game! The RP + rules lite games tend to be the games I have in best memories.

So if you wanted to run a game with the Shadowrun fluff, what ruleset would you choose?  Leaving aside the fact that choosing a SR edition would get you ready statted monsters etc.
Mh, probably some Cthulhu Now rules. Or the upcoming Basic Roleplaying. Gritty, realistic, fast.

EJ

Nachofan99

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2008, 06:48:33 PM »
2nd the Earthdawn suggestion.   I wonder if they will ever update it with a newer edition.

Tazendra

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
Re: Shadowrun Thread
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2008, 02:39:51 PM »
There is a newer edition. Redbrick is producing material for it now.