Author Topic: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion  (Read 45126 times)

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Omen of Peace

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #340 on: October 31, 2008, 04:31:04 PM »
I did think you had some kind of trickery in mind.  :smirk
If you look at existing characters we have few "Tier 1" classes so just by picking Archivist (or Wizard) you set yourself up to having to restrain yourself rather than go dumpster-diving (well, it's not incompatible). ;)

Rogue//Archivist sounds great. :)
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Judging Eagle

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #341 on: October 31, 2008, 08:18:45 PM »
I did think you had some kind of trickery in mind.  :smirk
If you look at existing characters we have few "Tier 1" classes so just by picking Archivist (or Wizard) you set yourself up to having to restrain yourself rather than go dumpster-diving (well, it's not incompatible). ;)

Rogue//Archivist sounds great. :)

No, not really "trickery", just clarification if this game uses a strict interpretation of the rules as written or an other interpretation of the rules.

Looking at the Wiki for this game has also given me some interesting ideas for a character.

I understand that monsters are possible as races (using the CR as marker and then subract elite stat array from base stats, then recalculate HD so that Saves and BaB are more reasonable for a PC of that level) and was thinking of a non-standard race for a character. Perhaps something with a racial hit dice that is worth taking from level to level.

I've got the feeling that such a character would probably be the simplest build I've ever made; save for a RoW Barbarian that used dual bastard swords. Now that was an easy build to make.

I was thinking of something along the lines of either an outsider of some kind (prefferably something medium and humanoid) or possibly something else. Ideally something that can run around looking like a humanoid character, for while it's interesting to be a non-humanoid in theory, it isn't so interesting to do so in practise.

Seeing how this is Eberron, perhaps such a character would work fine. As well as not really changing anything about the character's original backstory.
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fil kearney

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #342 on: November 01, 2008, 08:06:07 PM »
Although I don't contest that an archivst can add arcane spells to his prayerbook, the rules compendium is pretty straightforward about wizards not beig able to add spells that are not on his list...
I DO allow you to research any type of spell to become a n arcane spell for your list though... that costs money, which is  preset by level and I limit exotic spells outside of PHB... bt I don't think it's unfair to allow a arcane to cast divie, as long as it's paid for. 

Regarding caster levels and spell levels... no.  at current, the max level a full caster could have is level 12 for a cleric/wizard, 13 for a sorceror/spontaneous caster.  Two reasons for this...
1. I plan on going epic eventually.  This is going to allow the power curve to build more slowly regarding spell poiwer.  should allow the game to be more sustainable.
2. there are a lot of cool PrC's folks would consider if it doidn't cost them spell levels.   Green Star Adept is actually a viable gish consideration in this game, because you are only etting 1/2 casting advancement anywya.   you've gotta fill those levels with something.  May as well consider weaker PRC's that add cool flavor.
7-9th level spells WILL be available, just at a later level than you wold normally get them... but that is a PC only restriction.  As DM I am fully allowed to throw a wizard20 at your party.  It would die or run very fast...but I'm allowed to do it.  As well as make up whatever the hell I wat to throw at you.  Some people don't agree with that philosophy, but the party in game is currently facing some sort of something they can't find in the books
Incredible power is tempered by unfamiliar threats.


I had something else to say, but I just lost it...
OH!  Buffs.
IF a buff is merely going to add statistics to the whole team, don't bother.  I literally gauge how tough creatures are to how well your characters perform  You'll hit and damage easy encountes much more readily than dificult or even moderate encounters.  IF you get used to buffing all the time your  attacks, ac, damage, I upgrade the threats to match your power. This is a good thing.
1. it scales incredily easily into epic levels.  I've go a lot of experience ith 20+ characters.  the math is easy to process, really.
2. ther's no sense wasting a bunch of time buffing the crap out of the whole party.  If one or two charatrs woll be beneitted by enlarge etc... by all means, do it.  a DMM righteous might divine power cleric is an expected archetype.  I'm not just going to debuf on sight. (though OMen is very amusin to imply I will.. :D)
Haste, for instance, allows an extra attack per full attack.  This is gonna benefit owain incredibly, others not as much.   


alright end ranting.
I"ll be updating in game before the weekend is over... so get in your posts asap team!

Judging Eagle

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #343 on: November 02, 2008, 02:02:57 AM »
Actually, the reason that I'm asking about "easy conversion" is so that I know if I have to dumpster-dive through Divine spell lists again.

If I can just copy wizard spells, I'll probably be lazy and stick with the PHB spells. I don't have lots of time to figure out or look up anything aside from PHB stuff with the way my school schedule is.

If I dumpster-dive through all the divine caster spell lists, I'll have to look over all of my old Archivist's spell lists and see what he bought, then spend the gold for the scroll of the spell, and then add it to his spellbook. The spellcraft DCs for reading and copying a spell are pretty easy to make if you have high int and just max your ranks.

Anyway, so some options for "what" to do with spell casting include:

Buffs
Ok, so "+numbers" spells are not so useful as "+change things" spells are.

However, I'm hoping that burning some rounds during more challenging encounters to cast buffs will have some benefit.


Summons

I'm guessing that they're ok?

Stuff like summoning a 2-4 celestial lions in a fight, then making them all huge (animal shapes), that sort of thing.


Battlefield Effects

"Cloud" spells; Black Tentacles (there's a water-type domain that gives it out, I know that I was using it at lvl 7 in eberron); stone to mud; walls of fire; walls of stone, web, brambles


Enemy Debuff

Sickening Clouds, Curse, Blindness, Deafness


Save or Dies

We know how these work. Ridiculously high DC = Dead target.


Hulk Out

Either run around with DDM'd spells for buffs, or pick up Craft Contingent spell.


There's also the option to play Ted the Enabler. However this group probably will not need a specialist for de-trapping, diplomacy and healing. Also, this looks like it's probably a combat-heavy campaign. So, killing yes, talking no.
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fil kearney

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #344 on: November 02, 2008, 12:25:04 PM »
the campaign could be very diplomatic if you all want it to be.  your hoice.

just as a word of caution: I capped DMM buffing to not exceed your highest spell level you can cast. (like the bard version) but I do allow nightstick spamming for multiple effects/buffs simultaneously... just watch your en d result compared to the rest.
otherwise, blanket yes.

Judging Eagle

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #345 on: November 02, 2008, 02:35:38 PM »
Okay, so I have the feeling that having a "list" of combat options and mixing them up is probably the way to go. Which works with me, I get bored of doing the same thing every time.
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Judging Eagle

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #346 on: November 06, 2008, 03:20:47 AM »
Since I'm lazy....

and don't want to bother prepping for DMM or w/e; I'm going for a pretty effective, fairly easy to build and probably useful choice for one side of the character build.

Make it all Dragon HD. Specifically a CR 12 Young Adult Bronze Dragon (HD trimmed to 14).

Since Alternate Form existed for a long time previously, it's not a real clash with the character concept. He just never changed to his true form in the past, and doesn't plan to do so now either.

The real and obvious benefits are a massive HD, not having to worry about saves, full BaB, 2 more skill points per level than a straight Archivist would get, and 4 more than a straight Wizard are among the abilities that the character will see the most used.

Frightful Presence, flight, multiple natural attacks, breath weapon and actaul dragon abilities will probably never be used, let alone seen.
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fil kearney

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #347 on: November 08, 2008, 09:59:15 PM »
I know this is something we had debated earlier, but Ive got a different angle on spell points worked up oin the house rule area.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2399.msg81260#msg81260

Not getting te attention I would like to play test it, but I want to play test it. 
I"ll probably be posting over on DDOG and put something p there... not sure.
But I like it, and it resolves every problem I can think of about  spell cating and points/recharging.

Dave and Omen were pretty active on feedback about this.. I'd like to hear what I have missed with this from you.
:p

Omen of Peace

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #348 on: November 09, 2008, 06:27:36 PM »
I've got a lot less time than before, so don't expect feedback from me soon. Sorry !
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Judging Eagle

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #349 on: November 10, 2008, 07:23:43 PM »
I know this is something we had debated earlier, but Ive got a different angle on spell points worked up oin the house rule area.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2399.msg81260#msg81260

Not getting te attention I would like to play test it, but I want to play test it. 
I"ll probably be posting over on DDOG and put something p there... not sure.
But I like it, and it resolves every problem I can think of about  spell cating and points/recharging.

Dave and Omen were pretty active on feedback about this.. I'd like to hear what I have missed with this from you.
:p

So, do you want an assesment of that system?
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fil kearney

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #350 on: November 11, 2008, 12:51:23 AM »
yeah... go ahead.  Just post in that thread.

I've got a similar thread running at DnDOG, and am getting a lot of interest in playtesting there.

Judging Eagle

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #351 on: November 11, 2008, 04:01:14 PM »
Actually, I was thinking of going over to the balance/design people on the Den.

Spell point systems have been discussed on and off on The Gaming Den, but none of us have talked about them in the last year or so.

Anyway, here's the link to the thread.
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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #352 on: November 12, 2008, 12:37:24 AM »
GOtta say, Judge... if we ever finish the chapter you are currently a shoe in for the spot left empty.  Other people may have expressed interest first, but you certainly have shown you want a piece of it.

SO on that snap decision: welcome to the mess.
maeksomething official, and pray we actually get to a good "join now" point. 

Kudos and FU to you.

Judging Eagle

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #353 on: November 12, 2008, 01:15:35 PM »
Right on, I'll print out the Bronze Dragon stats and work something out during my 12-4 tutoring shift.

How is stuff like item crafting going to work out, and are we level 14, or is it that we have enough XP to be level 14. Basically what I'm asking is what kind of XP budget there is with regards to crafting.

As for playtesting your Spell Point system, we could try something here perhaps? The character I'm proposing is pretty much "high natural numbers" on one side and "spell casting" on the other, so it wouldn't skew assesment too much.

Alternatively, we could make the character a single classed character that has the same stats, but can't change into a dragon in-game.

Also, I'd like to point out that "introducing" this character is about as easy as you'd introduce any character that can walk on most surfaces at high speeds, cannot be seen (easily) and cannot be heard (easily). So introducing him might be easier than with an other character.
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Omen of Peace

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #354 on: November 12, 2008, 05:25:28 PM »
The WBL is a strict limit in this game, so crafting can't get you more gear. It can help you get exactly what you need in the middle of an adventure though.
(This is in exchange for making our gear "sacred", i.e. no sundering/stealing shenanigans.)

As for introducing your character, I think the problem is we're currently deep underground in a not-so-frequented area, so (s)he'd have little reason to hang out there.
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Judging Eagle

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #355 on: November 12, 2008, 11:45:15 PM »
A 14th lvl character that went around spreading contact poison (terinav root created with Lesser Creation) all over enemy bases before the party entered, as far back as level 7.

Actually.... I have no idea what sorts of shenanigans he could get up to at level 14. ._.
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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #356 on: November 13, 2008, 12:05:20 AM »
A 14th lvl character that went around spreading contact poison (terinav root created with Lesser Creation) all over enemy bases before the party entered, as far back as level 7.
ah, shenangians!

Omen is, of course, right on the money on both counts. 
WBL is strictly adhered to.  but I am incredibly liberal with how you use it.  You can have literally anything you want that you can afford and is cleared by me previously.  Crafting does allow for cheaper gear but will take time. 
You are also welcoe to create gallons of poison, but this is an example of HOW you are getting stuff you want.  these gallons would cost you per dose from you WBL... so yes you can, no you probably won't. 

XP started at 14th, but whoever has the highest xp raises the entire team up to that xp number.  so you will have the xp of the highest team mate when we get to that point.

Omen is also correct that the team is in a very secluded spot.  it would take some clever  reasoning to be there... but if we can logic it out, you can be there, with just enough xp to be 14th leve where everyone else started.
Chapter' ed could realistically be a while


I am not proposing changing these characters over to a playtest.  No one signed on for that, and it would be rude unless everyone wanted to ditch the current charcters and build single classs equivalents.  This game will survive... it's not very fast, and I am about to post next round.

Judging Eagle

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #357 on: November 13, 2008, 02:03:28 PM »
I'll get started on that character.
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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #358 on: November 19, 2008, 12:04:12 AM »
keep in mind folks that i don't update after every attack... if you want to act this round do it.  if too much time elapses, i'll skip yer turn this round.