Author Topic: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion  (Read 45124 times)

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amalcon

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #240 on: September 28, 2008, 08:11:55 PM »
I'm working on a few last updates (some equipment, I was missing the level 1 feat).  For the record, yes, I think we were doing the chain greater magic fang thing.  We might actually need to count weapons for this, now that I think of it:  my Druid caster level is 12, and I nominally have 7 natural weapons for it to hit (4 claws, bite, gore, unarmed strike).  Meriabo has two of interest, Sherman has five (counting rakes), and Elia has one of interest, so 16.

I guess that solves the first level feat question.  Practiced Spellcaster it is!  I also might want to put my unarmed strike in the GMW set (Monk, yay), which would both get a higher caster level and give us two extra possible natural weapons (so if I took a Fleshraker form or something, I could GMF the rakes for that day).

eta:  And as far as knowledge goes, remember Maraxus does have a fairly decent Bardic Knowledge check.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 08:14:21 PM by amalcon »

AlisAtAn

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #241 on: September 28, 2008, 08:30:25 PM »
Well, we havent done a headcount for GMW, but if I do your unarmed strike, you should be able to cover 15 with your GMF, right? I think maybe Dave wanted some GMF action as well. Not sure. In any case, we would have to prioritize those who rely the most on there natural attacks.
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amalcon

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #242 on: September 28, 2008, 09:05:46 PM »
oops, I forgot I can't get caster level above 14 with Practiced Spelcaster.  I guess I can buy an Ankh of Ascension.  It's a little pricey on the spell slots, but it'll put us up to 18 magic fangs, which will hopefully be enough.  It also makes the bonus +4, which is nice.  The big drawback is I can no longer wear my Ring of Adamantine Touch on a Hand of Glory with Wilding Clasp, so I need to juggle it when I wildshape.  Oh well.

fil kearney

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #243 on: September 28, 2008, 09:43:41 PM »
So is Heroics instead of Blur okay? And Split Ray instead of Empower?

heroics no, split ray yes
can you point me to the full character build for sherman?  Im trying to see where his 8 attacks per round are from?

i didn't see haste anywhere, so if you spent with all twf feats: then we'd have
2 primary claw 9/4
2 secondary claw 9/4
1 bite 4
1 tail slap 4
(bab here without bonus and twf pnalties)

what did I miss?

Quote from: dave
for the legacy, table 4-2 for penalties?
that's fine.  it's worth it if it givs you tools you can't access otherise.  considering we're going epic, and we can make up a bunch of shit at that point.. meh.  yer call.

Quote
If people think I'm unbalanced I'm willing to drop Stormguard, but I can't really think of anything to replace it with.
It is definitely above and beyond others ... cash out 18 attacks one round to gain +90 damage on 18 attacks the following round?
this requires two rounds to work against a single opponent.  IF I throw a solo monster at you,  then owain will make quick worth it alongside everyone else.
but considering I will probably need to continue my trend to throw a slew of toughies or hordes of medium threats at the team... SW becomes a waste of time.  
(ha! so a single monster challene will be TRULY horrible)

Use it and enjoy it.  if for some reason we feel it is gonna be a problem in the future, we'll address it.  



are folks using chain spells to.... what?  increase your attacks and ac?  I'm just going to inflate your foes to match you.  I'd really recommend letting it go.  it'
s extra bureaucracy, cost, and number crun ching.
if you guys realy feel you need it, go ahead.



DaveTheMagicWeasel

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #244 on: September 28, 2008, 09:45:02 PM »
Yeah, I also guessed it was a typo - I just couldn't guess what the real thing was. ;)

@Dave: I have no problem with you trying it out since that's what you were aiming for. We can judge then if it's unbalanced - the numbers seem to indicate it might be.
If you decide to drop it later, Combat Reflexes + Robilar can still be good to deal more damage and/or dissuade enemies from attacking you.
Level-wise, there's always Slayer. You already have the prereqs (Track) I think.
edit: you could even make whatever-the-type-of-the-Minotaur-that-killed-Owain Owain's favored enemy.

Maybe I should shut up we should start and worry about it later. ;) Fil ?

I started to work on raising my Fort and Will saves and perhaps lower my attacks just a bit (the current numbers don't account for GMW).

The more I think about it the more I'm leaning towards dropping Stormguard.  The only issue is whether I lose 2 levels of Ranger for Eternal Blade, and thereby lose 2 feats.  If I leave Practiced Manifester/EK (Schism) for later (I'm not sure I have the pp to maintain frequent use of Schism, and use of the powers manifested while schismed) - then what I can do is:

- Greater TWF
- Combat Reflexes
- Robilar's Gambit
- Double-Hit

Then make the legacy item defensive in nature - miss chances, invisibility, etc - to help cover the Robilar's penalties.  I'd quite like Spectral Skirmisher in there (if it stacks with Robilar's I would get four attacks whenever I'm invisible and someone attacks me), and Bonus Essentia (since I only have 2 points of it).

And I do quite like the idea of Owain being uber-vengeful in his fighting style, and just going berzerk whenever anyone comes at him :D

Whether that's more balanced than Stormguard might be debatable tho!



My bite attack is pretty poor - I can't use Dex for it.  I was mostly intending to use it for Stormguard Touch Attacks even when the rest of them were slashing properly, unless I had already accrued significant to-hit bonuses.

So, on the one hand, in order to make the attack worth a damn I really need the GMF - and an extra worthwhile attack potentially translates into a lot of damage due to how much bonus damage I have - but on the other hand, it's not as intrinsic to my build as Talman's or Sherman's natural attacks.

I wouldn't bother with the Ankh tbh.  It's expensive and costs a spell slot to use.  If there's a cheaper way to do it then I'm happy to get the buff, but I don't regard it as worth breaking the bank for.

Here's an idea - instead of the variant Sapphire Hierarch, how about you use a Divine Soulcaster?  Then use Arcane Investment (now divine investment) to bump up the CL of GMF each morning?

Or a casting of Harmonious Chorus (Bard 2, SC) each morning from Meriabo?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 10:09:17 PM by DaveTheMagicWeasel »

fil kearney

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #245 on: September 28, 2008, 09:55:41 PM »
I"m going to be opening up the threads in an hour or so.  Figure out hat you ant to do and I'll see you on the inside.

DaveTheMagicWeasel

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #246 on: September 28, 2008, 10:10:39 PM »
Hopefully we won't be hitting combat for a bit while we iron out the details yeah?

Anyway, I've got a double shift on the morrow, so I'll join you on the other side of that...
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 10:12:25 PM by DaveTheMagicWeasel »

Omen of Peace

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #247 on: September 28, 2008, 10:30:21 PM »
Double Hit looks interesting. I think it's more manageable than SW: Fil can send a big solo critter against us ; if he attacks, say, each of us once in a round you'll get to punish him but you won't down him in two rounds.
But if you go invisible, critters may end up trying to attack you less often - which makes Robilar less useful.

Expert Tactician (CAdv) could be interesting if you start to lean towards an AoO build. I think I'd go for that rather than Spectral Skirmisher.

I checked out Owain's page briefly: do your rogue levels really give you 4d6 SA ?

@all: as for AC/defenses, remember that Elia will debuff the enemies' attacks.

edit: with GMW, Elia's to-hit has ended up higher than anyone else's. Feel free to object.
I was considering Valorous for one of Elia's weapons but it may too good for level 14 - I think I'll wait.

edit2: I wonder if Avalon will remain with us. His Internet access seems infrequent.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 10:48:10 PM by Omen of Peace »
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fil kearney

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #248 on: September 29, 2008, 03:48:56 AM »
hey folks just remind you-- MAX HP EVERY LEVEL.

DaveTheMagicWeasel

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #249 on: September 29, 2008, 07:17:27 AM »
Double Hit looks interesting. I think it's more manageable than SW: Fil can send a big solo critter against us ; if he attacks, say, each of us once in a round you'll get to punish him but you won't down him in two rounds.
But if you go invisible, critters may end up trying to attack you less often - which makes Robilar less useful.

Expert Tactician (CAdv) could be interesting if you start to lean towards an AoO build. I think I'd go for that rather than Spectral Skirmisher.

I'm thinking Bonus Essentia if I can find another feat.  ET is an option as well though.

I checked out Owain's page briefly: do your rogue levels really give you 4d6 SA ?

Errr.... No.  No they don't.  I don't where I got that from.

I'll go change that.

fil kearney

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #250 on: September 29, 2008, 10:30:03 AM »
I checked out Owain's page briefly: do your rogue levels really give you 4d6 SA ?

Errr.... No.  No they don't.  I don't where I got that from.

I'll go change that.
obviously i  dont use a very fine comb looking charaxters over...:fan

Omen of Peace

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #251 on: September 29, 2008, 10:49:37 AM »
@Fil - custom abilities I might want to put on my legacy:
[spoiler]- Greater Crystal of Revelation (MIC 66). Costs 5k. Upgrading a weapon from +1 to +2 costs 6k and is a Menu B ability - is Menu B ok for a "Greater Revelation" ability ?

- Vestige Phylactery (ToM 79). Costs 15k. Upgrading a weapon from +3 to +4 costs 14k and is a Menu E ability - is Menu E ok for a "Phylactery" ability ?
(The Vestige Phylactery adds no power to the character, only versatility: the possibility to change 1 vestige bound.)[/spoiler]
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fil kearney

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #252 on: September 29, 2008, 04:24:09 PM »
@Fil - custom abilities I might want to put on my legacy:
[spoiler]- Greater Crystal of Revelation (MIC 66). Costs 5k. Upgrading a weapon from +1 to +2 costs 6k and is a Menu B ability - is Menu B ok for a "Greater Revelation" ability ?

- Vestige Phylactery (ToM 79). Costs 15k. Upgrading a weapon from +3 to +4 costs 14k and is a Menu E ability - is Menu E ok for a "Phylactery" ability ?
(The Vestige Phylactery adds no power to the character, only versatility: the possibility to change 1 vestige bound.)[/spoiler]

Phylactery yes. 
AFB.. GCoR works out mathematically, but what does it do?



Omen of Peace

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #253 on: September 29, 2008, 05:05:40 PM »
It suppresses concealment (except when granted by the environment) or invisibility on a creature the weapon hits for 1 round.

Elia doesn't have See Invisible right now, so the idea is to suffer miss chances until one hit lands - then she can hit reliably.
edit: and it benefits everyone. :)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 05:43:50 PM by Omen of Peace »
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fil kearney

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #254 on: September 29, 2008, 05:15:38 PM »
Sounds good to me.  Nicely done.


Omen of Peace

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #255 on: September 29, 2008, 06:08:43 PM »
Thanks ! I love flexible DMs.  :love
Getting a permanent See Invisible might be better but this suits Elia very well - she does things by the book blade.

Mechanical stuff:
- Elia briefly adopted the Hunter's Sense stance to gain Scent, but she returned to Assassin's Stance, her usual stance - at least when under threat.

- she is bound to her 3 usual vestiges ; all the pacts are good since she has a high Binding modifier.
Changed my mind. To spice things up I'll roll d20s and if a 1 comes up the corresponding pact will be bad. Her pact with Paimon is always good since he's her patron vestige.
Chupoclops 8, Tenebrous 8

I think that's all...
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 06:15:07 PM by Omen of Peace »
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fil kearney

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #256 on: September 29, 2008, 06:51:38 PM »
Good. 

Hey folks, do me a favor: be sure to post spoken stuff in bold... color of your choice is fine (I"ll even work on using your preferred color too) but the bold really helps me out when reading folks.

DaveTheMagicWeasel

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #257 on: September 29, 2008, 08:37:12 PM »
Have updated character sheet and comparing the builds page with my changes.

I've opted for the Ranger option rather than Eternal Blade (might take EB 2 as I level tho...), and have taken Bonus Essentia (normally placed in my Wormtail Belt for +2 AC) and Psychic Renewal (spend pp to recover maneuver as swift action - very good deal since a lot of my maneuvers - most notably Shadow Jaunt - are low level and therefore cheap to recover) as the other feats.

I've rejigged my equipment a little, saved about 5 grand - I'm now assuming just a normal Mage Armour - which will go towards paying legacy item costs.  I haven't started work on the legacy item yet, but I'm thinking of using my Ring of the Darkhidden as the base item, since it lends itself well to a shadowy thematic, and will likely stick my resistance and/or deflection bonuses on it to save the rest of the cash I need to pay for it.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 08:56:45 PM by DaveTheMagicWeasel »

fil kearney

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #258 on: September 29, 2008, 09:19:35 PM »

Quote from: amalcon
1/3 of spell slots, or 1/3 of spell levels?  This makes a big difference.
My bad... howver many spells you can cast per day, 1/3 have been discharged so far... say you have 30 spells per day... 5 first, 5 2nd, blah blah blah 4 6th.. yer using up 10 spells.  get rid of the 4 6th level spells first, and then just pick 6 more spells... like, 3 1st, a 3rd, and a 5th.  You've got the rest.


Why am I doing this-- simply because Merry can teleport.  I wanted to start you here right now in this particular tunnel.  I don't care if you STAY in the tunnel, but I needed to metagame a reason for you to be there and explore the space a bit without just leaving right away. 
You aren't obligated to DO anything.  just go about your business. 
Metagamingly speaking, I obviously wanted you here for a reason. 
You are either going to find a way out on your own (kudos!) and then crash, or you are gonna crash for a 6 hour extended rest (remember, they are only 6 hours required now!) and find/tport your way out.  both are fine to me. 



 

Omen of Peace

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Re: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion
« Reply #259 on: September 29, 2008, 09:32:23 PM »
I just re-read Tenebrous See in Darkness ability and realized that it actually grants Darkvision with no maximum range. Eat your heart out, Drow !

...Too bad I focused on Listen so that Elia's Spot sucks.  :blush

Another mechanical footnote: she has a Deeper Darkness-like effect extending from her with a 5ft radius (also from Tenebrous).
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