Author Topic: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]  (Read 67721 times)

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RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #160 on: December 04, 2008, 02:52:17 PM »
Also, on a related note, I'll want to make sure that no extra effects from direct damage spells (based on their damage type) would apply any of those action-hindering conditions. 

For example (just making this up), having all acid spells make the target sickened would be okay, but not nasueated.  I like the idea of various energy types having their own little things they do, either as debuffs or extra damage.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #161 on: December 04, 2008, 03:22:41 PM »
RE: fear
Considering that you need at a minimum 2 effects to do it that way(as opposed to a spell/effect that goes straight to frightened, thats a SoS), I think it can be safely exempt as a debuff.

For statuses(I'll just rip some off the SRD here), theres a rough order of magnitude there, given equal duration and human, non immune PCs.

Starts with anything that either loses actions, or worse, controls your actions
-----Die-----
Helpless(coz of CdG, this might as well be dead, contains anything that makes you helpless)
-----Action replacement/forcing-----
Confused
Panicked
Frightened
Turned
-----Action loss-----
Stunned
Cowering
Dazed
Fascinated
-----Impedes or limits actions-----
Nauseated
Staggered
Blinded
Pinned
Grappling
-----debuffs below this line-----
Negative Level(higher than the rest because this can nonstandard kill you with enough of it)
Exhausted
Entangled
Deafened
Fatigued
Prone
Flatfooted
Shaken/Sickened
Dazzled

The first 2 categories(ignoring unconcious, it's essentially dead but breathing) may be Save or Lose depending on the duration.
The 3rd is similar, but has a wider leeway for duration, if it lasts more than a handful of rounds and has few escape conditions.
So modified by how long they hold, that'd establish if the CC spell needs a nerf bat.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

SiggyDevil

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    • Feybook Project
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #162 on: December 05, 2008, 03:15:10 AM »
Ah. Good stuff. I've been thinking about this lately. There's a lot of redundant physical and mental conditions that really could be colllapsed inward.

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #163 on: December 05, 2008, 01:41:45 PM »
Which are redundant?  Every one I can think of are different than the others, even if in a small way.  Are you talking about collapsing the similar ones into a single condition?

I don't think that's necessary.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

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  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #164 on: December 05, 2008, 02:34:38 PM »
Neither, though some of the conditions I skipped listing are awfully similar to each other.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

RobbyPants

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  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #165 on: December 08, 2008, 09:57:32 AM »
Okay, so to get this in a more consolidated list, how about this:

Any spell that imposes the following conditions will have a casting time of one full round, if its listed casting time is shorter:
  • Blinded
  • Confused
  • Dazed
  • Dead
  • Disabled
  • Dying
  • Fascinated
  • Frightened
  • Helpless
  • Nauseated
  • Panicked
  • Paralyzed
  • Petrified
  • Staggered
  • Stunned
  • Unconscious


(I know some of these might not be imposed by a spell, but I listed them just in case.  This also lumps in save-or-dies, since this is the current suggestion for those)
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #166 on: December 09, 2008, 12:25:14 PM »
I'm thining die per-die bonus to damage for direct damage spells should be 1/2 the spell level, round up, as I'd suggested earlier.  Aside from that, here are the effects I'm suggesting for each energy type.  The idea is to not have any of them specifically limit actions.  I suppose the one exception could be force spells knocking someone prone.  Other than that, it's just additional damage or penalties.

[fire] On a failed save the target catches fire (taking spell level d6 fire damage each round) for a number of rounds equal to half the spell's level (minimum 1). It requires a full-round action (provoke AoO) to extinguish the flames.

[cold] On a failed save the target takes a penalty to your Strength score equal to the spell's level, but this cannot reduce your Strength score below 1.  This penalty overlaps with other Str penalties from other cold spells.  The penalty lasts for a number of rounds equal to the spell's level.

[acid] On a failed save, the target becomes sickened for a number of rounds equal to the spell's level.

[electric] On a failed save the target takes a penalty to your Dexterity score equal to the spell's level, but this cannot reduce your Dexterity score below 1.  This penalty overlaps with other Dex penalties from other electric spells.  The penalty lasts for a number of rounds equal to the spell's level.

[sonic] On a failed save the target is deafened for a number of rounds equal to half the spell's level (minimum 1).

[Force] On a failed save, small and smaller creatures are knocked prone.  Higher level spells are capable of knocking larger creatures prone, per the table below:
       spell    creature
       level    size
       _____________________________
       0        small and smaller
       1-2      medium and smaller
       3-4      large and smaller
       5-6      huge and smaller
       7-8      gargantuan and smaller
       9        colossal and smaller
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 12:27:30 PM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

SiggyDevil

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  • Magmar, the ultimate butthead
    • Feybook Project
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #167 on: December 09, 2008, 10:38:52 PM »
Okay, so to get this in a more consolidated list, how about this:

  • Blinded
  • Confused
  • Dazed
  • Dead
  • Disabled
  • Dying
  • Fascinated
  • Frightened
  • Helpless
  • Nauseated
  • Panicked
  • Paralyzed
  • Petrified
  • Staggered
  • Stunned
  • Unconscious

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #168 on: December 10, 2008, 09:24:31 AM »
Perhaps I should have worded that more differently.  That list is a list of conditions that I would define save-or-lose and save-or-die spells.  I wanted those spells to take a full round to cast.

I probably shouldn't have use the word "consolidated", but rather updated or possibly complete.  I don't want to consolidate the conditions.  I know that a lot of them have the same ultimate effect, but many creatures are immune to some and not all.  I think the current list is about as consolidated as it can get without any (IMO) oversimplification.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #169 on: December 10, 2008, 11:25:43 AM »
That list looks fine to me, and Siggy, the reason we wouldn't consolidate the statuses that way is the depth of the change, monsters in every monster manual will be affected, not to mention spells and stuff. Particularly since that change doesn't exactly affect mechanical balance.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

RobbyPants

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  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #170 on: December 10, 2008, 11:26:32 AM »
So what do you think of the added effects for the energy descriptors I had a few posts above?
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
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  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #171 on: December 10, 2008, 12:03:49 PM »
Also, and idea mentioned in the offensive Abjuration thread: how about making the wall spells split school?  Basically, they are both their listed school and Ajuration.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #172 on: December 11, 2008, 09:44:19 AM »
Added the new direct damage tags and the conditions that qualify for "save-or-lose" to the front page.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
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  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #173 on: December 16, 2008, 03:18:40 PM »
A while back in the Core classes thread, we debated how to handle the versatility of the sorcerer/wizard spell list.  The best solution we could think of was to simply revise the list, and remove any spells that we thought should be specialist only, or delay some spells by a level or two.  The end result is a list that still has the versatility of a generalist, without the same raw power.

This list is the same one bkdubs made (many thanks), but reformatted and grouped by school.  Now, there are a few gaps at a few levels, and I'm not sure if we need to fill them or not.  Also note that these are core-only spells.  If I find the time (and it might be quite a while :p), I can try to do a similar list for the Spell Compendium, and perhaps a the Complete Mage and PHB2 later.


Generalist spell list

- Core -

[spoiler=Level 1]1st
_____________________________________

Abjur
Alarm
Endure Elements
Hold Portal

Conj
Mage Armor
Mount
Obscuring Mist
Unseen Servant

Div
Comprehend Languages
True Strike

Ench
Charm Person

Evoc
Burning Hands
Magic Missile
Shocking Grasp
Tenser's Floating Disk

Illus
Disguise Self
Silent Image

Necro
Cause Fear

Trans
Animate Rope
Enlarge/Reduce Person
Erase
Expeditious Retreat
Feather Fall
Jump[/spoiler]


[spoiler=Level 2]2nd
_____________________________________

Abjur
Arcane Lock
Obscure Object
Protection from Arrows
Resist Energy

Conj
Fog Cloud
Grease
Melf's Acid Arrow
Summon Monster I

Div
See Invisibility

Ench
Daze Monster
Hypnotism

Evoc
Continual Flame
Darkness/Daylight
Flaming Sphere
Gust of Wind
Scorching Ray
Shatter

Illus
Blur
Color Spray
Invisibility
Minor Image
Misdirection

Necro
Blindness/Deafness
False Life
Ray of Enfeeblement
Scare

Trans
Darkvision
Knock
Levitate
Pyrotechnics
Spider Climb
Whispering Wind[/spoiler]


[spoiler=Level 3]3rd
_____________________________________


Abjur
Nondetection
Protection from Energy

Conj
Glitterdust
Phantom Steed
Sepia Snake Sigil
Sleet Storm
Summon Monster II
Summon Swarm
Web

Div
Tongues

Ench
Deep Slumber
Heroism
Hold Person
Hypnotic Pattern
Touch of Idiocy

Evoc
Fireball
Lightning Bolt
Wind Wall

Illus
Major Image

Necro
Ray of Exhaustion

Trans
Blink
Fly
Haste
Slow[/spoiler]


[spoiler=Level 4]4th
_____________________________________

Abjur
Dimensional Anchor
Dispel Magic

Conj
Dimension Door
Solid Fog
Stinking Cloud
Summon Monster III

Div
Arcane Eye

Ench
Charm Monster
Crushing Despair

Evoc
Fire Shield
Ice Storm
Shout

Illus
Greater Invisibility

Necro
Bestow Curse
Contagion
Fear

Trans
Mass Enlarge/Reduce Person
Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer[/spoiler]


[spoiler=Level 5]5th
_____________________________________

Abjur
Dismissal

Conj
Minor Creation
Summon Monster IV

Div
Detect Scrying
Prying Eyes

Ench
Hold Monster
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
Symbol of Sleep

Evoc
Bigby's Interposing Hand
Cone of Cold

Illus
Dream
False Vision
Nightmare
Persistent Image

Necro
Blight
Waves of Fatigue

Trans
Overland Flight
Passwall
Telekinesis
Teleport[/spoiler]


[spoiler=Level 6]6th
_____________________________________

Abjur
Antimagic Field
Repulsion

Conj
Cloudkill
Summon Monster V

Div
True Seeing

Ench
Dominate Person
Greater Heroism
Symbol of Persuasion

Evoc
Wall of Force
Bigby's Forceful Hand
Chain Lightning
Otiluke's Freezing Sphere

Illus
Permanent Image
Programmed Image

Necro
Eyebite
Symbol of Fear

Trans
Control Water
Flesh to Stone
Mordenkainen's Lucubration

Univ
Permanency[/spoiler]


[spoiler=Level 7]7th
_____________________________________

Abjur
Banishment
Greater Dispel Magic
Sequester

Conj
Acid Fog
Drawmij's Instant Summons
Phase Door
Plane Shift
Greater Teleport
Summon Monster VI
Teleport Object

Div


Ench
Mass Hold Person
Power Word Blind

Evoc
Bigby's Grasping Hand
Mordenkainen's Sword
Prismatic Spray

Illus
Mass Invisibility

Necro
Finger of Death
Waves of Exhaustion

Trans
Control Weather
Disintegrate[/spoiler]


[spoiler=Level 8]8th
_____________________________________

Abjur
Protection from Spells
Spell Turning

Conj
Incendiary Cloud
Summon Monster VII

Div
Greater Prying Eyes
Moment of Prescience

Ench
Demand
Mass Charm Monster
Power Word Stun

Evoc
Bigby's Clenched Fist
Delayed Blast Fireball
Otiluke's Telekinetic Sphere
Polar Ray

Illus
Scintillating Pattern

Necro
Horrid Wilting

Trans
Ethereal Jaunt[/spoiler]


[spoiler=Level 9]9th
_____________________________________

Abjur
Dimensional Lock

Conj
Gate
Refuge
Summon Monster VIII

Div


Ench
Mass Hold Monster

Evoc
Bigby's Crushing Hand

Illus


Necro
Astral Projection

Trans
Imprisonment
Temporal Stasis
Time Stop

Univ
Limited Wish[/spoiler]
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
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  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #174 on: January 03, 2009, 10:10:56 AM »
A couple months ago, I posted a polymorph revision, which I'll post here:

[spoiler]Polymorph

You form changes into that of another creature.  You may increase or decrease your size by one size category.  Increasing your size gives you a +2 bonus to Strength and a -2 penalty to Dexterity, and decreasing your size gives you a +2 bonus on Dexterity and a -2 Penalty on Strength.  You have the reach of a long creature of your new size.  If using this spell to impersonate someone, you gain a +10 circumstance bonus on your Disguise check.

You gain a special enchancement bonus equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 15 at 15th level.  You can distribute this bonus however you want as an enhanement bonus to Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, and natural armor.  You may only add even numbers to your ability scores and you cannot add an enhancement bonus to an ability score greater than six.  You cannot add an enhancement bonus to your natural armor greater than five.

You may also spend some of these points to gain special attacks or modes of movement:
  • Flight (4 points): You gain the ability to fly at your base speed with average manueverability.
  • Swimming (2 points): You gain a swim speed equal to your base land speed and a +8 bonus on Swim checks.  You may take 10 while swimming and may charge while swimming in a straight line.  You are able to breath underwater.
  • Scent (2 points): You gain the scent ability
  • Natural attack (2 points): You either gain bite, slam, or tentical attack that deals 1d8 damage (2d6 if large, 1d6 if small).  Alternately, you gain two claw attacks that deal 1d4 damage each (1d6 if large, 1d3 if small).
  • Reach (4 points): Your reach increases by five feet.[/spoiler]

    Anyway, what I wanted to do was add more abilities.  How about some (or all) of the following:

  • Burrow (4 points): You gain a burrow speed equal to your base land speed.
  • Low light vision (1 point): You gain low light vision.
  • Darkvision (2 points): You gain dark vision 60 ft.
  • Speed (1 point): Your base land speed increases by 5 ft.  This can be taken several times, but the bonus to your base land speed cannot exceed your original land speed.
  • Energy Resistance (1 point): You gain energy resistance of 5 for any one of the five energy types (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic).  You can take this ability several times, either increasing the reistance of one type by 5, and/or by gaining resistances to new energy types.
  • Energy Immunity (6 points): You are immune to one of the ive energy types (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic).  This ability can be taken multiple times, granting you immunity to a different energy type.

    Should the caster be able to take Natural Attack twice?  I should also note how much of the Str mod is applied to each attack type.

    Also, do you think any of the costs should be changed?
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
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  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #175 on: January 03, 2009, 12:37:40 PM »
Fine to all of the above, except the cap on the speed, if they want to dump the entire thing on speed for a whopping +75ft speed bonus, let them. Multiple castings overwrite each other instead of overlap right? Make speed an enhancement bonus while you're at it.

Yes to multiple natural attacks, also, Flight(heck, all the move modes) and Darkvision should be upgradable for speed and manueverbility in the former, and distance in the latter. Not sure on the costs, needs test scenarios for those.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

PinkysBrain

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 23
    • Email
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #176 on: January 08, 2009, 06:41:26 PM »
« Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 06:58:00 PM by PinkysBrain »

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
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  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #177 on: January 15, 2009, 09:47:06 AM »
I wanted to bring up a topic that got some discussion in a side thread I created, but I don't feel ever got resolved: keeping Evocation as a viable school.

As it stands Conjuration has some pretty nice DD spells, and you can cover many or most of your blasting needs with Conjuration while dropping Evocation.  Not to mention, there are a few other DD spells scattered through out other schools.

How do you feel about dual-schooling all DD spells with Evocation?  This would mean that dropping Evocation as a specialist would cost you access to those spells.  So, for example, a Conjurer that bans Evocation would not have access to all the Orb of ___ spells, as they would be Conjuration/Evocation.

Of course, we'd have to come up with a good definition for what "direct damage" is.  I think we can common sense most of it, but we might want to make sure.  I'd say, if the spell's primary function is to deal damage, it would be DD, but if it also has a significant amount of debuffing or terrain modification, it wouldn't count.

Just a few examples (IMO):
  Direct               Not direct
  damage               damage
  __________________________________________
  Orb of ____          Black Tenticles
  Blast of Flame       Acid Fog
  Maw of Chaos         Wall of Gears
  Fire and Brimstone   Causic Mire
  Explosive Runes     
Vampiric Touch seems like a grey area.  I'm leaning toward no, but what are your thoughts?

___

On a related note, how do you feel about dual-schooling all wall spells with Abjuration?
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Soda

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #178 on: January 15, 2009, 10:30:29 AM »
Throw Mage Armor into Abj too. Just bugs me that it's not.

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
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  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: D&D Spells [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #179 on: January 16, 2009, 07:05:15 AM »
Dual Schooling any direct, raw energy damage(though this can be more of a flavor consideration, especially with acid) into evocations seems only sensible, likewise with Wall spells, and Mage Armor(what about interactions with Abjurant Champion though). Negative energy damage, falls safely under the purview of necromancy, I think.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."