Author Topic: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]  (Read 68263 times)

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RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #320 on: February 02, 2009, 08:48:08 PM »
I first got interested in the class a while back reading a post in Gleemax.  The poster was in a party with two of them, and the party loved it (double the auras and all).

The only time I saw them used was in a game I ran a year and a half ago.  The Player (ZanKhellendros) was having fun for a while.  Then our dedicated tank had to leave the group, and that left the DS having to do the tanking.  He wasn't really built for it, so he ended up retiring the PC in favor of someone stronger.  That, and with only two others in the group who tended to stay out of melee (a psion and an archer), his auras weren't as useful as they could have been.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

VennDygrem

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #321 on: February 03, 2009, 02:44:47 AM »
I've seen the Dragon Shaman mentioned several times, so I got to thinking about it.

I wouldn't consider this a whole fix, but part of a larger fix.  Since we've decided to increase the warlock's Eldritch Blast damage to 1d6 per class level (the numbers for this are in this post), I was thinking, why not do the same for the dragon shaman?

Basically, their breath weapon would do double the damage listed in the PHB2.  They still have an AoE shape, which allows for more targets, but it's only usable every 1d4 rounds.  So, that last factor keeps this from being their primary mode of attack, but at least it makes it worth a standard action for anything other than hordes of mooks whose CR is half your level. ;)

Thoughts?

I'm really interested in this, I've never played a dragon shaman, and It doesnt' look like they have a handbook, anyone actually drive on of those things?

I've played, three actually, though one was just a one-shot character. The first time I picked up the PHB2 in a bookstore while waiting for a table at a restaurant nearby, I saw the Dragon Shaman and said, "Ok, yes, I want to play this." There are a couple threads on Gleemax about them, and one handbook that got interrupted and abandoned. There's also a thread somewhere linking to alternate totems (including faerunian and gem dragons, etc.). But anyway, the first time I took it for a test drive in a campaign, it worked pretty well. It ended up getting kind of complicated because I changed aspects of it like the totem, which I never full made the entire adjustments to the character for, but I went with the standard Barbarian 1/Dragon Shaman X build, like others had suggested. I was able to hold my own pretty well in battle, and the breath weapon and auras were nice additions, but it didn't pack much punch.

The one I really liked playing was last year. I was getting tired of my other character, and tired of another player always stealing the spotlight. So I went with a Draconic Human Dragon Shaman, loaded up on Draconic feats to get natural weapons and to augment my breath weapon, and went to town. I figured I wouldn't be playing it much, so I eventually took the Draconic template into Half-Dragon via template class levels. It was pretty powerful compared to some of the other characters in the party (I had taken 1 level of Lion totem Barbarian to get Pounce, which is odd if you think about it). I also was using one of those alternative totems, so I was mixing Mercury Dragon ancestry and as my totem, and even got my DM to give me the Mercury Dragon's poison flesh, in case anything tried to bite me. :)

The point is, it took heavy optimization to make the class stand up to par with more powerful and fun options. Plus, there was really no reason to take all 20 levels of the class on its own. I still love the class though, which of course is the reason I took it upon myself to rewrite it. I was even going to make up a proper handbook for the original class at some point, but that ended up being too much work for the time I had. If you end up playing one sometime, I'd be glad to offer some advice. Of course, you may see my Dragon Shaman in Arhosa sometime as well. :D

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #322 on: February 03, 2009, 09:53:27 AM »
There are a couple threads on Gleemax about them, and one handbook that got interrupted and abandoned.
That's too bad.  I don't have enough experience with the class to even attempt a handbook over here.  Maybe someone else will do it...


I went with the standard Barbarian 1/Dragon Shaman X build, like others had suggested. I was able to hold my own pretty well in battle, and the breath weapon and auras were nice additions, but it didn't pack much punch.
A barbarian dip would certainly help (or fighter, I suppose).

The thing with this class is it's a lot like a bard in terms of party buffing, but it doesn't get the 6/9 casting like the bard does.  I think that's the biggest thing that puts this class behind the bard in power.  So, whenever we get around to rewriting the class, I think we either need to:

1) Beef up the abilities to roughly match this level of casting, or

2) Actually come up with a spell list and give a 6/9 casting progression.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

VennDygrem

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #323 on: February 03, 2009, 09:07:50 PM »
Well, as I mentioned, I've already begun rewriting the class, though not officially as part of your rebalancing initiative. Check my sig for the link.

So far it's got gradually more natural weapons, which improve with level (a mechanic I took from the Shapeshift-variant Druid), a breath weapon with damage dice equal to level and which improve from d6 to d10 over their career, the normal aura and touch of vitality features, and earlier, gradually improving dragon wings (a la the Raptoran, the Dragonborn, or by taking the dragon wing feats), and a few other things. I took out Commune with Dragon Spirit because I've never heard of anyone really using it. With the proper feat a build selections, the Dragon Shaman as I've got him should be alternating between shooting off a powerful breath weapon and making dive multi-target-attacks and charge full-attacks. But that's still utilizing a good amount of optimization. Still, I believe that my rewrite is far superior to the original as-is, at least, and in a moderate-power/tier game, should be fairly impressive addition to any party. The main thing I want to do is balance the level of power along the career. Right now the majority of abilities are introduced early on, and later levels are more or less involved in boosting those abilities.

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #324 on: February 06, 2009, 09:32:20 AM »
If I get a chance, I might write up a hexblade too.  That way, Midnight_V and I can compare, and we can see what we both want in the class.  I think I agree with him to use OW4's paladin as a metric.  Just off the top of my head, here are a few things I think I'm going to try to work in:

- Hex on a per encounter basis, not per day.

- Hex is a swift action instead of a free action.

- Create new hexes to give more variety to the class.  Perhaps hexes to give a solid Str penalty, perhaps a Dex penalty, an AC penalty, an SR penalty, a miss-chance.  This hasn't been hashed out yet.

- Ability to wear and cast in medium armor.

- Strongly considering auras at various levels to somewhat mirror OW4's paladin auras.
[spoiler=auras]Doing a simple reversal of the paladin auras, here's what we'd have:

Aura of Despair: At 3rd level, each opponent within 30 feet of the hexblade suffers a -4 penalty on saving throws against fear effects.  This scales with the hexblade's level.  The penalty increases to -6 at level 8 and they take a -1 penalty on attack rolls.  At level 13, the save penalty increases to -8 and the attack penalty increases to -2.  At level 18, opponents automatically fail any save against a fear effect* and the attack penalty increases to -3.  This is a switchable Aura.

* This is the closest I could think of for mirroring immunity to fear.  I'm open to suggestions.

Aura of Carelessness: Upon reaching 8th level, the hexblade may exude an Aura of Carelessness. While this ability is active, the hexblade bestows a -1 penalty to AC to all opponents within 30 feet. At level 13, this penalty increases to -2. At level 18, this penalty increases to -3. This is a switchable aura

Aura of Wavering: Beginning at 13th level, the hexblade gains Aura of Wavering.  While this ability is active, any opponent within 30 feet of the hexblade must roll two Fortitude saves anytime they make a roll a Fortitude save *.  They must take the lower of the two results.  This only applies to the first Fortitude save the opponent rolls each round.  This is a switchable Aura.

* This is the closet mirror I could think of to allowing a reroll of a Fortitude save.  I certainly think the wording could be improved.

Aura of Doubt: At 18th level, the hexblade gains Aura of Doubt. While this ability is active, any opponent within 30 feet of the hexblade must roll two Will saves anytime they make a roll a Will save *.  They must take the lower of the two results.  This only applies to the first Will save the opponent rolls each round.  This is a switchable Aura.

* This is the closet mirror I could think of to allowing a reroll of a Will save.  Again, I think the wording could be improved.[/spoiler]

- Add new spells to the spell list.  Certainly, a lot of good Necromancy debuffs belong here.

- Per OW4's paladin, the hexblade's caster level should be hexblade level - 3.  This can be completely bypassed with Practiced Spellcaster.

So, that's the very beginnings of what I'd like to do.  I might add more later, but I'll try to write something more complete up later.

« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 09:47:23 AM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #325 on: February 06, 2009, 09:48:58 AM »
Also, I'd like to increase the hexblade's spells per day to match the increase for the paladin fix.

I'm not sure how much I'd like to increase their spells known.  I'm not looking for anything serious, but I'd like to add at least one to each spell level.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #326 on: February 07, 2009, 11:30:51 PM »
Okay, this is still a tentative rewrite, but here's a new version of the hexblade.  I used the CW version and OW4's paladin as the framework.  The hex has been made per encounter, the hexblade gets new hexes to choose from, he gets four switchable auras (that mirror OW4's paladin auras), the spells per day have been increased to match the paladin, and there are a few new things added in.



Hexblade

Hit Dice: d10

Class Skills: Per Complete Warrior
Skills Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int mod) * 4
Skill Points Each Additional Level: 4 + Int mod

Level Special                      - Spells per Day -
                                   1st  2nd  3rd  4th
______________________________________________________
1     Hexblade's curse (1/enc)      -    -    -    -
2     Arcane resistance             -    -    -    -
3     Mettle, Aura of Despair       -    -    -    -
4     Summon Familiar               0    -    -    -
5     Hexblade's curse (2/enc)      1    -    -    -
6     Bonus feat, Curse of          2    -    -    -
      Frailty
7     Greater hexblade's curse      2    0    -    -
8     Aura of Carelessness          3    1    -    -
9     Hexblade's curse (3/enc)      3    2    -    -
10    Curse of Unluck               3    2    0    -
11    Bonus feat                    4    3    1    -
12    Retributive curse             4    3    2    -
13    Hexblade's curse (4/enc),     4    3    2    0
      Aura of Wavering
14    Curse of Vulnerability        4    4    3    1
15    Chain hex (1/enc)             5    4    3    2
16    Bonus feat                    5    4    3    2
17    Hexblade's curse (5/enc)      5    4    4    3
18    Aura of Doubt                 5    5    4    3
19    Dire hexblade's curse         5    5    4    3
20    Bonus feat, Chain hex (2/enc) 6    5    4    4


Level   - Spells known -
       1st  2nd  3rd  4th
___________________________
1       -    -    -    -
2       -    -    -    -
3       -    -    -    -
4       21   -    -    -
5       2    -    -    -
6       3    -    -    -
7       3    21   -    -
8       3    2    -    -
9       4    3    -    -
10      4    3    21   -
11      4    3    2    -
12      5    4    3    -
13      5    4    3    21
14      5    4    3    2
15      6    5    4    3
16      6    5    5    3
17      6    5    4    3
18      7    6    5    4
19      7    6    5    4
20      7    6    5    4
___________________________
1 Provided the hexblade has sufficient Charisma to have a bonus spell of this level


Class Features

Hexblade's Curse: Per Complete Warrior, except the hex is a swift action and is useable once per encounter.  As a hexblade increases in level, he gains different types of hexes to choose from.  If an opponent succeeds on its Will save against the hex, the opponent is immune to all forms of the hexblade curse for 24 hours.  Any opponent may be affected by multiple hexes if they are each of a different type.  For example, an opponent could be targeted with a Hexblade's Curse and a Curse of Frailty, but not with two Curses of Frailty.

Arcane Resistance: Per Complete Warrior.

Mettle: Per Complete Warrior.

Aura of Despair: At 3rd level, each opponent within 30 feet of the hexblade suffers a -4 penalty on saving throws against fear effects.  This scales with the hexblade's level.  The penalty increases to -6 at level 8 and they take a -1 penalty on attack rolls.  At level 13, the save penalty increases to -8 and the attack penalty increases to -2.  At level 18, opponents automatically fail any save against a fear effect and the attack penalty increases to -3.  This is a switchable Aura.

Switchable Auras: The Auras of Despair, Carelessness, Wavering, and Doubt are switchable as a move action. You may have only one of these auras active at a given time. These auras function while the hexblade is conscious, but not while the hexblade is unconscious or dead.

Summon Familiar: Per Complete Warrior.

Bonus Feat: Per Complete Warrior, plus the hexblade can choose any metamagic feat.

Curse of Frailty: This curse counts as a Hexblade's Curse.  An opponent who fails his Will save take a -4 penalty to Strength and Dexterity for the duration of the curse.  This penalty cannot reduce either score below 1.  When the hexblade gains Greater Hexblade's Curse (see below), the penalties increase to -8.  When the hexblade gains Dire Hexblade's Curse (see below), the penalties increase to -12.

Greater Hexblade's Curse: Per Complete Warrior.  This also increases the potency of the new curses, as described in their entries.

Aura of Carelessness: Upon reaching 8th level, the hexblade may exude an Aura of Carelessness. While this ability is active, the hexblade bestows a -1 penalty to AC to all opponents within 30 feet. At level 13, this penalty increases to -2. At level 18, this penalty increases to -3. This is a switchable aura

Curse of Unluck: This curse counts as a Hexblade's Curse.  An opponent who fails his Will save suffers a 20% miss chance on any attack he makes for the duration of the curse.  When the hexblade gains Dire Hexblade's Curse (see below), the miss chance increases to 50%.

Retributive curse: The hexblade can use this curse to damage an opponent who just damaged him as an immediate action.  This deals damage to the opponent equal to the amount dealt to the hexblade from a single attack, spell, or ability.  The opponent must succeed at a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 hexblade level + Cha mod) or take the same amount of damage.  This ability can be used once per encounter.

Aura of Wavering: Beginning at 13th level, the hexblade gains Aura of Wavering.  While this ability is active, any opponent within 30 feet of the hexblade must roll two Fortitude saves anytime they make a roll a Fortitude save .  They must take the lower of the two results.  This only applies to the first Fortitude save the opponent rolls each round.  This is a switchable Aura.

Curse of Vulnerability: This curse counts as a Hexblade's Curse.  An opponent who fails his Will save has his Spell Resistance (if any) reduced by 10 for the duration of the curse.  When the hexblade gains Dire Hexblade's Curse (see below), the Spell Resistance is reduced by 20.

Chain hex: Once per encounter, the hexblade can use a hex to affect several targets, to a maximum of his hexblade level.  All targets must be within 30 feet of eachother.  Each target rolls a separate Will save.  If any target succeeds on its Will save, the chain is broken, and no more targets are affected.  This ability uses one of the hexblade's uses of Hexblade's Curse.  At 20th level, the hexblade can use this twice per encounter.

Aura of Doubt: At 18th level, the hexblade gains Aura of Doubt. While this ability is active, any opponent within 30 feet of the hexblade must roll two Will saves anytime they make a roll a Will save.  They must take the lower of the two results.  This only applies to the first Will save the opponent rolls each round.  This is a switchable Aura.

Dire Hexblade's Curse: Per Complete Warrior.  This also increases the potency of the new curses, as described in their entries.



Additional Hexblade Spells
These spells are in addition to those presented in Complete Warrior:

Level 1:
Doom
Ray of Enfeeblement

Level 2:
Shatter

Level 3:
Hold Person
Suggestion

Level 4:
Bestow Curse
Dimensional Anchor
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 11:32:54 PM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Midnight_v

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #327 on: February 08, 2009, 10:52:00 AM »
Hmm... I ended up deciding I'm gonna do a full thread on it actually, yours looks pretty decent though.
I... I'm so busy right now another couple days are needed though Sorry.
M_v
\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #328 on: February 08, 2009, 10:50:01 PM »
That's no problem.  I liked your idea of using OW4's paladin as a basis, and it really made things a lot easier when I looked at it that way.

Now, I haven't really had a chance to play test this, or seriously analyze what it can do at each level, but I think it's not too far off from what I was aiming for.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Midnight_v

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  • Posts: 2660
  • Dulce et decorum est pro alea mori.
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #329 on: February 09, 2009, 11:07:00 AM »
It's close to what I'm doing. I'm going to find a picture for it and ... add a few class abilities to fill in the blanks.
Ultimately I'm trying to follow the Kiss rule Keep-it-simple-stupid. I dont' want it to be a anti-paladin but something else entirely. I think sinfire had the fluff just about myself, but the spell progression needs to be changed to something better.
hmm.. sorry this is taking so long. I have a ass load of math to do. M.
\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #330 on: February 09, 2009, 11:44:47 AM »
When you talk about improving the spell progression, do you mean giving it OW4's paladin progression, or something stronger, with 5th or even 6th level spells?
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Midnight_v

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #331 on: February 09, 2009, 04:24:24 PM »
When you talk about improving the spell progression, do you mean giving it OW4's paladin progression, or something stronger, with 5th or even 6th level spells?

Owa's progression. Though, frankly it needs to have a wider selection of spells allowed, too. Something less governed than a specific list, perhaps but I'm still experimenting with that.
M_v
\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"

bogsnes

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #332 on: February 16, 2009, 05:07:34 PM »
I think the Warlock could get some free heritage feats (it would be perfect flavor-wise)

And if it is behind, maybe you could give it 2-3 "points" at first level that he can spend on permanently improve his (only for Warlock levels, of course) BAB, base SP, HD, or maybe even saves

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #333 on: February 17, 2009, 09:42:21 AM »
I think the Warlock could get some free heritage feats (it would be perfect flavor-wise)

And if it is behind, maybe you could give it 2-3 "points" at first level that he can spend on permanently improve his (only for Warlock levels, of course) BAB, base SP, HD, or maybe even saves
Do you think it's necessary given d6 per level Eldritch Blast, one invocation per level, and the new invocations I created?  Or is this just a flavor suggestion?

I don't want to over do it. ;)
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

bogsnes

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #334 on: February 17, 2009, 09:45:44 AM »
the heritage was mostly for flavor reasons... they're not so great, but they does really fit with the Warlocks flavor...

Maybe 1 at first and another at 5 and every 5th after that...

The other was just IF it was still to weak, though... but heritage feats looks nice... without sacrificing too much power to get it.


RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #336 on: February 18, 2009, 09:26:12 AM »
So in theory (if you didn't want invocations) you could take 20 heritage feats?  Obviously no one would do that, but I guess it offers customizablility.

It's an option.  I'm assuming this just applies to Fiendish or Fey heritage feats?
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

SiggyDevil

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #337 on: February 18, 2009, 10:02:36 AM »
Yes to 20 heritage. While I personally wouldn't do it, someone will. I'd probably put in 3-4 but no more.

No to just demon and fairy. Any heritage. Dragon, demon, angel, fairy, orc, elf, 'far realm', anything. No sense in restricting the fluff.
I like to provide people with more option, even if doing so would be disadvantageous, simply because they'll go about mucking things around anyway.  :pout


RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #338 on: February 18, 2009, 10:15:50 AM »
Well, that would involve writing up about thirty new feats or so.  The Fiendish and Fey heritage feats presented in Complete Mage looked like they were really designed for the warlock, as they work with any character type and match the warlock's fluff.  Looking through Complete Arcane and the PHB2, the Draconic, Infernal, and Celestial heritage feats are all designed to be sorcerer-only.

So, in order to expand the fluff mechanically like that, I'd need to write up generic versions of all those herigates, and probably more...  unless, of course, you know of some already printed versions in another source.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

bogsnes

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #339 on: February 18, 2009, 10:24:58 AM »
You should also let him qualify, and when you get spells/powers known, you gain them as SLAs instead (maybe with a limited amount of uses/day, I dunno...)