Author Topic: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]  (Read 68266 times)

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veekie

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #220 on: November 18, 2008, 03:55:28 PM »
Well, we could just port the revised Wild Spell over here for that, "you can ignore Verbal/Somatic components for the purpose of casting in another form, and you can use melded material components and foci while polymorphed".

What do you think of the Summoner Super Familiar suggestion?
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #221 on: November 18, 2008, 05:01:47 PM »
What do you think of the Summoner Super Familiar suggestion?
The basic idea seems sound.  Are you thinking this is something you summon periodically, or permanently?  Is the idea that it's something you summon, but it stays with you until killed or dismissed?  Is it 1/encounter with a duration of 1 round/level?

I guess there are lots of ways to go about doing this.  I just don't want to go nuts with it, as the summoner is already a full caster representing one of the two most powerful schools of arcane magic.

-----------

Also, as for what you said earlier, I'm not sure I want the base Oracle to be a gish.  I think you're right that the right spells could make it an interesting gish.  I'd like to have a good set of spells to make it viable on the base chasis.  That being said, what did you think of the combative ACF I suggested for the Transmuter?  Perhaps that should be available to all six of these specialist classes.  It wouldn't be that great for the beguiler, but the warmage and dread necro could pull some use out of a higher BAB (and more HP).  The summoner wouldn't see much use, but the oracle and transmuter could also make good gishes.

-----------

I'll have to see when I can find more time to add to the spell lists.  I want to check through my PHB2 and Complete Mage at a minimum.  I may also add some divine spells (as arcane spells) to the oracle.  Then I'd probably check the Complete Champion as well.  Again, my hope is to get about 10-15 spells at the lower levels per spell level and 5-10 at the higher spell levels.  I'm not all the way there on any of these three lists.  I just wanted to post a tenative idea to get feedback before I posted them in a more complete form.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 05:04:00 PM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #222 on: November 18, 2008, 09:59:45 PM »
Is the idea that it's something you summon, but it stays with you until killed or dismissed?
This I think, it'd be essentially a familiar, only it's a summoned being and can't exactly be killed on a permanent basis.

I guess there are lots of ways to go about doing this.  I just don't want to go nuts with it, as the summoner is already a full caster representing one of the two most powerful schools of arcane magic.
Naturally, still, if any arcane class were to have a battlepet, the Summoner would be it.
-----------
Also, as for what you said earlier, I'm not sure I want the base Oracle to be a gish.  I think you're right that the right spells could make it an interesting gish.  I'd like to have a good set of spells to make it viable on the base chasis.  That being said, what did you think of the combative ACF I suggested for the Transmuter?  Perhaps that should be available to all six of these specialist classes.  It wouldn't be that great for the beguiler, but the warmage and dread necro could pull some use out of a higher BAB (and more HP).  The summoner wouldn't see much use, but the oracle and transmuter could also make good gishes.

A combat oriented ACF would fit very well for the Oracle(whose spells are currently less than effective for much else) and the Transmutor(where going freaky and ripping enemies apart is the other, and generally more flexible, side of Violators will Be Toad). These two types of casters spend enough of their time in close quarters that the Transmutor likely should have melee useful class features anyway on the base chassis(heck, given the spells, a transmutor up to level 10 can do little but buff and gish) and the oracle could be a bard substitute or a divination/abjuration gish. Giving the Transmutor better nat weapon crit range and bigger nat weapon size for the ACF is pretty neat there.

The Beguiler IMO, could fit in here too(just not as well as the first 2), with stealth based gishing, rogue style. They have enough nice spells to function either way. Same goes for the Necromancer with it's touches. Warmage just for the Ray spells. Summoner probably doesn't belong in melee at all unless hes turned that familiar into a dragon, and rides on it while zapping buff spells he doesn't have.

Oracle's spell list is weak though, could use some stuff like Power Words, Symbols and Glyphs to give it some spell based offense. Even the Beguiler has Whelm, save or suck/dies and mind control effects to give it a magical punch, the Oracle has pretty much nothing offensive at all until Touch of Idiocy, Confusion, and possibly Resilient Sphere.

On the Abjuration side, adding some reactive defenses(fire shield style) would be nice. But the main reason I suggested a leader(insight bonuses for all)/gish is because I couldn't quite see how you could make it's spell list offensive without detracting from the base concept.

Looks good over
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 10:02:30 PM by veekie »
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

RobbyPants

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Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #223 on: November 19, 2008, 09:53:03 AM »
Oracle's spell list is weak though, could use some stuff like Power Words, Symbols and Glyphs to give it some spell based offense. Even the Beguiler has Whelm, save or suck/dies and mind control effects to give it a magical punch, the Oracle has pretty much nothing offensive at all until Touch of Idiocy, Confusion, and possibly Resilient Sphere.
Actually, in my first write up of the spell list (before I added SC spells), I had all the symbol and glyph spells in there.  Maybe I should add them back in.

I'm going to work on the class features of the classes next, but I don't think I'll get around to expanding their spell lists until later.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

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  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #224 on: November 19, 2008, 10:26:41 AM »
Well, if the Oracle had some offense, it'd be less pidgeonholed into a gish role simply by dint of available spells, so thats good. Time related spells like Celerity(post nerf of course, but it's perfect for an Oracle), Time Stop, etc might also be fitting for the Oracle.

So, which class features first? The Transmuter and Summoner are relatively straightforward, so how about hitting them first, before delving into the more puzzling Oracle?
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

RobbyPants

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  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #225 on: November 20, 2008, 11:51:57 AM »
Okay, I've updated the spell lists.  I still don't think they're complete, but it's a lot closer (and they're alphabetized ;)).  In a couple lists, I'm running short on spells 7th level and above.  I ended up throwing in all the Symbol spells in the Oracle list, as well as adding in a couple divine spells cast as arcane spells.

Hopefully I'll have the class features up soon.  I'll add them to these posts as I complete them.

______________________________________________________

Oracle

Hit Die: d6

Class Skills: Appraise(int), Concentration(con), Craft(int), Decipher Script(int), Gather Information(cha), Knowledge(any)(int), Listen(wis), Profession(wis), Search(int), Sense Motive(wis), Spellcraft(int), and Spot(wis).

Skill points per level: 4

Level   BAB    Fort  Ref  Will  Special
_______________________________________________________
1       +0     +0    +0   +2    AC Bonus
2       +1     +0    +0   +3    Uncanny Dodge
3       +1     +1    +1   +3    Advanced Learning
4       +2     +1    +1   +4    Evasion
5       +2     +1    +1   +4    -
6       +3     +2    +2   +5    Improved Uncanny Dodge
7       +3     +2    +2   +5    Advanced Learning
8       +4     +2    +2   +6    Sixth Sense
9       +4     +3    +3   +6    -
10      +5     +3    +3   +7    Quick Warning(Uncanny Dodge)
11      +5     +3    +3   +7    Advanced Learning
12      +6/+1  +4    +4   +8    -
13      +6/+1  +4    +4   +8    Quick Warning(Evasion)
14      +7/+2  +4    +4   +9    -
15      +7/+2  +5    +5   +9    Advanced Learning
16      +8/+3  +5    +5   +10   -
17      +8/+3  +5    +5   +10   Quick Warning(Improved Uncanny Dodge)
18      +9/+4  +6    +6   +11   -
19      +9/+4  +6    +6   +11   Advanced Learning
20      +10/+5 +6    +6   +12   Quick Warning(Sixth Sense)
_______________________________________________________


Special Abilities

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Oracle are proficient with simple weapons and light armor.

Spellcasting: As beguiler, except using Wisdom as the casting stat.

AC Bonus: An oracle adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his Armor Class whenever he is wearing light or no armor and carrying a light load.  He adds this bonus even if he is denied his Dexterity bonus to his Armor Class, but not if immoblized or helpless.

Uncanny Dodge: Per the PHB

Advanced Learning: At 3rd level, the oracle learns a new spell.  This spell can be chosen from any Abjuration or Divination spell off the Cleric or Sorcerer/Wizard list.  The spell must be of a level the oracle can cast.  The selected spell is permanently added to the oracle's spell list.

The oracle gets another spell at 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th level.

Evasion: Per the PHB

Improved Uncanny Dodge: Per the PHB

Sixth Sense: Starting at 8th level, the oracle adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his initiative rolls and Reflex saves.

Quick Warning: Starting at 10th level, the oracle is able to warn his allies of impending danger.  All allies within 10 feet of the oracle gain Uncanny Dodge.  This ability only functions if the oracle is conscious and able to communicate with his allies.

At 13th level, all allies within 10 feet also gain Evasion.

At 17th level, all allies within 10 feet also gain Improved Uncanny Dodge.

At 20th level, all allies within 10 feet also add the oracle's Wisdom bonus (if any) to their initiatve rolls and Reflex saves.


Spell List

[spoiler=Level 0]
Arcane Mark
Detect Poison
Detect Magic
Light
Mending
Message
Prestidigitation
Read Magic
Resistance
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 1]
Alarm
Appraising Touch *
Comprehend Languages
Critical Strike *
Detect Secret Doors
Dispel Ward *
Identify
Instant Search *
Master's Touch *
Mage Armor
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Shield
Spontaneous Search *
True Casting #
True Strike
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 2]
Alarm, Greater *
Arcane Lock
Arcane Turmoil #
Augury A
Celerity, Lesser 2
Chain of Eyes *
Detect Thoughts
Dispelling Touch 22
Locate Object
Magic Mouth
Marked Object *2
Touch of Idiocy
Whispering Wind
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 3]
Alter Forutne 2
Anticipate Teleportation *
Analyze Portal *
Arcane Sight
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Crown of Clarity 2
Dispel Magic
Illusory Script
Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Nondetection
Secret Page
Spellcaster's Bane #
Telepathic Bond, Lesser *
Tongues
Unluck *
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 4]
Arcane Eye
Assay Spell Resistance *
Celerity 2
Confusion
Detect Scrying
Dispelling Screen *
Divination A
Know Vulnerabilities *
Locate Creature
Portal Alarm, Improved *
Remove Curse
Resistance, Greater *
Scrying
Slashing Dispel 2
Stoneskin
Wall of Chaos/Evil/Good/Law *
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 5]
Break Enchantment
Contact Other Plane
Dream
Duelward **
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 6]
Analyze Dweomer
Anticipate Teleportation, Greater *
Dispel Magic, Greater
Guards and Wards
Interplanar Telepathic Bond *
Legend Lore
Probe Thoughts *
Repulsion
Symbol of Fear
Symbol of Persuasion
True Seeing
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 7]
Arcane Sight, Greater
Dispelling Screen, Greater *
Insanity
Scrying, Greater
Sequester
Spell Turning
Symbol of Stunning
Symbol of Weakness
Vision
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 8]
Celerity, Greater 2
Chain Dispel 2
Discern Location
Mind Blank
Protection from Spells
Prying Eyes, Greater
Symbol of Death
Symbol of Insanity
Wall of Greater Dispel Magic *
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 9]
Astral Projection
Eye Power *
Foresight
Freedom
Hindsight *
Imprisonment
Mordenkainen's Disjunction
Reaving Dispel *
[/spoiler]

* Spell Compendium
# Complete Mage
2 Player's Handbook 2
A Cast as arcane spell
« Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 01:13:50 PM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #226 on: November 20, 2008, 11:52:41 AM »
Summoner

Hit Die: d6

Class Skills: Bluff(cha), Concentration(con), Craft(int), Knowledge(any)(int), Profession(wis), Ride(dex), and Spellcraft(int).

Skill points per level: 4

Level   BAB    Fort  Ref  Will  Special
_______________________________________________________
1       +0     +0    +0   +2    Rapid Summoning
2       +1     +0    +0   +3    Enhanced Summoning (+2 Str, Con)
3       +1     +1    +1   +3    Advanced Learning
4       +2     +1    +1   +4    Empowered Summoning
5       +2     +1    +1   +4    Enhanced Summoning (+2 NA)
6       +3     +2    +2   +5    -
7       +3     +2    +2   +5    Advanced Learning
8       +4     +2    +2   +6    Enhanced Summoning (+10 ft.)
9       +4     +3    +3   +6    Maximized Summoning
10      +5     +3    +3   +7    Enhanced Summoning (+4 Str, Con)
11      +5     +3    +3   +7    Advanced Learning
12      +6/+1  +4    +4   +8    -
13      +6/+1  +4    +4   +8    Enhanced Summoning (+4 NA)
14      +7/+2  +4    +4   +9    Quickened Summoning
15      +7/+2  +5    +5   +9    Advanced Learning
16      +8/+3  +5    +5   +10   Enhanced Summoning (+20 ft.)
17      +8/+3  +5    +5   +10   -
18      +9/+4  +6    +6   +11   Enhanced Summoning (+6 Str, Con)
19      +9/+4  +6    +6   +11   Advanced Learning
20      +10/+5 +6    +6   +12   Enhanced Summoning (+6 NA)
_______________________________________________________


Special Abilities

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Summoners are proficient with simple weapons and light armor.

Spellcasting: As beguiler, except using Charisma as the casting stat.

Rapid Summoning: The summoner casts any Conjuration(Summoning) spell with a casting time of one round as a standard action. Creatures so summoned can only take a standard action in the round they are summoned.  The summoner gains the normal benefits from enhancing a Conjuration(Summoning) spell with the Quicken Spell feat.

Enhanced Summoning: When casting a Conjuration(Summoning) spell, all summoned creatures gain a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution.  Creatures with no Constitution score gain 1 hit point per hit die.

At 5th level, the summoned creature's natural armor improves by +2.

At 8th level, the speed of all of the summoned creatures movement modes increases by 10 feet.

At 10th level, the enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution increases by +2, to a total of +4.  Creatures with no Constitution score gain 2 hit point per hit die.

At 13th level, the summoned creature's natural armor improves by an additional +2, to a total of +4.

At 16th level, the speed of all of the summoned creatures movement modes increases by an additional 10 feet, to a total of a 20 foot increase.

At 18th level, the enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution increases by +2, to a total of +6.  Creatures with no Constitution score gain 3 hit point per hit die.

At 20th level, the summoned creature's natural armor improves by an additional +2, to a total of +6.

Advanced Learning: At 3rd level, the summoner learns a new spell.  This spell can be chosen from any Conjuration spell off the Sorcerer/Wizard list.  The spell must be of a level the summoner can cast.  The selected spell is permanently added to the summoner's spell list.

The summoner gets another spell at 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th level.

Empowered Summoning: Once per encounter, the summoner can empower a Conjration(Summoning) spell as if she'd applied the Empower Spell feat to it.  This ability only works when summoning multiple creatures with the spell (such as using Summon Monster III to summon several monsters off of the Summon Monster I or II list).  She does not need to have Empower Spell for this ability to work.

Maximized Summoning: Once per encounter, the summoner can maximize a Conjration(Summoning) spell as if she'd applied the Maximize Spell feat to it.  This ability only works when summoning multiple creatures with the spell (such as using Summon Monster III to summon several monsters off of the Summon Monster I or II list).  She does not need to have Maximize Spell for this ability to work.

Quickened Summoning: Once per encounter, the summoner can quicken a Conjration(Summoning) spell as if she'd applied the Quicken Spell feat to it.  She does not need to have QuickenSpell for this ability to work.


Spell List

[spoiler=Level 0]
Acid Splash
Arcane Mark
Caltrops *
Detect Magic
Prestidigitation
Read Magic
Resistance
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 1]
Buzzing Bee *
Grease
Hail of Stone *
Identify
Mage Armor
Mount
Obscuring Mist
Resinous Tar 2
Summon Component 2
Summon Monster I
Summon Nature's Ally I A
Summon Undead I *
Unseen Servant
Wall of Smoke *
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 2]
Cloud of Bewilderment *
Fog Cloud
Inky Cloud *
Incendiary Slime #
Kelgore's Grave Mist 2
Malevolant Miasma *
Summon Monster II
Summon Nature's Ally II A
Summon Undead II *
Summon Swarm
Web
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 3]
Bands of Steel *
Caustic Smoke #
Contagious Fog *
Dispel Magic
Mage Armor, Greater *
Phantom Steed
Sleet Storm
Stinking Cloud
Summon Monster III
Summon Nature's Ally III A
Summon Undead III *
Tiny Hut
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 4]
Bright Worms 2
Caustic Mire #
Ethereal Mount *
Evard's Black Tentacles
Minor Creation
Secure Shelter
Solid Fog
Summon Monster IV
Summon Nature's Ally IV A
Summon Undead IV *
Wall of Sand *
Wall of Watter *
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 5]
Call Zelekhut *
Cloudkill
Dragon Ally, Lesser *
Hidden Lodge *A
Summon Undead V *
Viscid Glob *
Wall of Stone
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 6]
Acid Fog
Dispel Magic, Greater
Freezing Fog *
Mordenkainen's Trusted Bloodhound 2
Planar Binding
Steal Summoning 2
Summon Monster VI
Summon Nature's Ally VI A
Wall of Iron
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 7]
Call Kolyarut *
Choking Cobwebs #
Dragon Ally *A
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 8]
Incendiary Cloud
Planar Binding, Greater
Summon Monster VIII
Summon Nature's Ally VIII A
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 9]
Call Marut *
Dragon Ally, Greater *
Gate
Refuge
Summon Elemental Monolith *
Summon Golem #
Summon Monster IX
Summon Nature's Ally IX A
[/spoiler]

* Spell Compendium
# Complete Mage
2 Player's Handbook 2
A Cast as an Arcane spell
« Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 05:18:00 PM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
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  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #227 on: November 20, 2008, 11:53:36 AM »
I may need to prune some of the level 3 spells.  I have a few too many.  Should things like Fly and Gaseous Form be taken out?

Transmuter

Spell List

[spoiler=Level 0]
Arcane Mark
Detect Magic
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Open/Close
Prestidigitation
Read Magic
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 1]
Burning Rage 2
Enlarge Person
Expeditious Retreat
Feather Fall
Fist of Stone *
Identify
Mage Armor
Magic Weapon
Nerveskitter *
Reduce Person
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 2]
Alter Self
Animalistic Power 2*
Boiling Blood #2
Ghost Touch Armor *
Pyrotechnics
Sonic Weapon *
Spider Climb
Stretch Weapon 2
Wraithstrike *
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 3]
Animate Weapon #
Bite of the Wererat *
Diamondsteel *
Dispel Magic
Dolorous Blow *
Dragonskin *
Energy Surge 2
Evard's Menacing Tenticles 2
Fly
Gaseous Form
Girallon's Blessing *
Haste
Keen Edge
Magic Weapon, Greater
Primal Form *
Shape of the Hellspawned Stalker #
Shrink Item
Slow
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 4]
Aspect of the Icey Hunter #
Bite of the Werewolf *
Call of Stone 2
Displacer Form *
Enlarge Person, Mass
Flame Whips *
Polymorph
Reduce Person, Mass
Stone Shape
Stoneskin
Trollshape 2
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 5]
Baleful Polymorph
Bite of the Wereboar *
Dance of Blades 2
Draconic Might *
Draconic Polymorph *
Enlarger Person, Greater *
Etherealness, Swift 2
Fabricate
Fiendform *
Flaying Tendrils #
Form of the Threefold Beast #
Telekinesis
Vulnerability **2
Dispel Magic, Greater
Energy Surge, Greater 2
Flesh to Stone
Stone Body *
Stone to Flesh
Transformation
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 7]
Adamantine Wings #
As the Frost 2
Bite of the Wearbear *
Body of War *
Ethereal Jaunt
Reverse Gravity
Statue
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 8]
Dreaded Form of the Eye Tyrant 2
Ghostform *
Iron Body
Polymorph Any Object
Unyielding Form of Inevitable Death 2
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Level 9]
Dragonshape *
Etherealness
Shapechange
[/spoiler]

* Spell Compendium
# Complete Mage
2 Player's Handbook 2
« Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 11:57:05 AM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #228 on: November 20, 2008, 10:13:04 PM »
Quote
Oracle
As I suspected, it can't stand up in a fight unless reworked into a gish or the spell list massively expanded.
It could use some precision damage(not sneak attack, maybe something linked to divinations), with a better BAB and ref save. Add on a few more combat buffs to the spell list to round it out.

Quote
Summoner
Good all round, and playable, but the class features list is a little bland. It's basically all basic buffs on pets, not that they're bad mind, just dull.
Maybe swap the 3 metamagic abilities out for a custom, summoned familiar of the same power as an Animal Companion? You could get the same thing off metamagic rods anyway, so it's no loss.

Quote
Transmuter
For the 3rd level spells, I think dropping Gaseous Form and one other(not Fly I think, since most people would just Advanced Learning it right back in) should be alright. Looks like a pure gish spell list as well, though with this spell list, it can melee passably with a 1/2 BAB and stand up as a squishy tank fairly well. Again, I advocate having the at will shapeshifting class feature here.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Mister_Sinister

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  • Posts: 910
  • For some people, four walls are three too many.
    • Email
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #229 on: November 20, 2008, 10:23:59 PM »
I second the call on making the oracle a gish. As it stands, I cannot see myself using it as anything except an NPC class, as it doesn't do anything meaningful in combat prior to getting level 5 spells or so. It's like a really weak cleric before then.

Everything I learned about DnD I learned from Frank Trollman at The Gaming Den... but nowadays, my work space is the New DnD Wiki.

Check them both out!


RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
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  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #230 on: November 20, 2008, 11:30:41 PM »
I think you could be right about some sort of "pet" for the summoner.  I just haven't taken time to stat it up.  If I dropped the three metamagic abilities, would a full animal companion be okay?

________________________________________

As for the gish part, I plan on including that in all six classes (these three plus the beguiler, dread necro, and warmage) as an ACF.  Basically, it goes like this:

Alternate Class Feature: Battle Caster

Gain: Hit dice increase to d8 and your base attack bonus advances like a cleric (3/4 your level).  You gain proficiency with two additional martial weapons.

Lose: You have one less spell slot available to you for each spell level you can cast.

_________________________________________

Does the oracle really need a better Reflex save?  It will get to add it's primary casting stat in addition to Dex.  Although I guess it doesn't get that ability until 8th level.  Should I push it up?  Should Reflex be an intermediate save like the CW Swashbuckler's Grace ability?

I agree that the spell lists could use a bit of work.  How would you handle divination-based percision damage?  Perhaps blow a spell slot as a swift action to add some extra precision damage based on the spell's level?

As for the transmuter, how should I handle the abilities?  I haven't really fleshed that class out at all yet.  Should the class features just be a higher BAB and hit dice, without sacrificing spells per day?  Maybe the class features could be some sort of shape shifting like the War Shaper and/or Master of Many Forms.  Perhaps swift action to some of the shape changing spells?  I'll try to work something up tomorow.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

ZeroSum

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #231 on: November 21, 2008, 02:12:56 AM »
Perhaps the Oracle should be allowed to substitute its primary casting stat for Dex at 4th or so then get it in addition to at 8th. However, when I hear "Oracle" I think "Divination, Scrying, Detection" not "Smash Face". Perhaps the name is somewhat misleading?

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #232 on: November 21, 2008, 03:49:59 AM »
Quote
If I dropped the three metamagic abilities, would a full animal companion be okay?

Probably, other than spells and a single improving ability, theres not much else. Of course, if the pet turns out stronger than expected, we could just trim some of the enhancement bonuses to summoned monsters off.

Quote
Does the oracle really need a better Reflex save?  It will get to add it's primary casting stat in addition to Dex.  Although I guess it doesn't get that ability until 8th level.  Should I push it up?  Should Reflex be an intermediate save like the CW Swashbuckler's Grace ability?

Well, it helps survivability, considering that Dex is a secondary stat, and moving casting stat to Ref up makes it sorta top heavy(the AC bonus probably needs to be capped at class level or it'd be a delicious dip for any wis caster). Not too sure on using an unusual save progression, since it's best not to confuse people, even if it fits.

Precision damage wise, maybe blow a slot as swift to get the bonus damage for spell level rounds vs a specific target?

Transmuter, a 3/4 BAB with a shapeshifting ability to bring in claws, tentacles, teeth, wings, nat armor, extra reach etc as a swift action(similar to the Shapeshift druid of PHB2, only it's a partial change), on top of some of the Master Transmogrifist's abilities look nice.

@Zerosum
Yeah, but a class centered on those things alone can't cut it in combat, hence it's basically an NPC class. Maybe the Battle Oracle, or Oracular Warrior.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #233 on: November 21, 2008, 09:29:40 AM »
However, when I hear "Oracle" I think "Divination, Scrying, Detection" not "Smash Face". Perhaps the name is somewhat misleading?
Perhaps.  This class has changed already since I first thought about it.  I like the name oracle, but when I think about oracles, I tend to think NPC, not PC.


Well, it helps survivability, considering that Dex is a secondary stat, and moving casting stat to Ref up makes it sorta top heavy(the AC bonus probably needs to be capped at class level or it'd be a delicious dip for any wis caster).
I agree that I don't want it too front loaded.  Still, adding full Wis to AC (uncapped) is already available at level 1 from Monk and level 2 from Swordsage.  I can see capping it, but should we also cap those too?


Not too sure on using an unusual save progression, since it's best not to confuse people, even if it fits.
The trick is not to call it an intermediate save.  It gets the slow progression, but you give the class the Grace ability at levels 2, 11, and 20, each adding a +1 bonus to the save. 

That seems to be WotC's answer to intermediate saves.  I know the CW swashbuckler gets that ability.  The scout gets Battle Fortitude (or Combat Fortitude, I don't rememeber the exact name), which gives it a Fort bonus.  Is there an existing ability for Will saves like this?
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

ZeroSum

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #234 on: November 21, 2008, 10:43:11 AM »
I think the Oracle is just something more suited to out-of-combat and pre-combat -- If you have an Oracle your team should almost always get the surprise round.  Your team should always know which of the decoys is real and thus which one to follow.  Your team should be able to come up with better strategies.  True Strike and Prescience, of course, should make the Oracle useful in battle, but the Oracle is someone to tell you which battles to fight and which to avoid.

Maybe it's more of an NPC archetype or maybe it's an archetype that PCs will only take if they play on using it to its full advantage?  I mean, can't some classes be like that?  Something without immediate, obvious benefits but with overall benefits outside of damage-dealing?

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
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  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #235 on: November 21, 2008, 11:23:17 AM »
Quote
I agree that I don't want it too front loaded.  Still, adding full Wis to AC (uncapped) is already available at level 1 from Monk and level 2 from Swordsage.  I can see capping it, but should we also cap those too?
Probably.

Bundling the ref bonus with the AC bonus and calling it Oracular Insight sounds neat. Maybe with the ability to share it with the party later on.

An idea that just occurred to me, instead of gaining the precision damage for himself only, grant the damage to allies as well when the oracle expends the spell slot?

@Zerosum, perhaps, but D&D has always had Smashing Face as one of it's major aspects, a class that can't smash face one way or another, simply doesn't work against the majority of incoming challenges, while DMs tend to get grumpy when you Divinate around all their encounters, and surprises.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

ZeroSum

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #236 on: November 21, 2008, 11:27:03 AM »
Good points -- I don't mean can't smash face I just think it should be more of a support role -- helping allies to smash face earlier and easier.

RobbyPants

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  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #237 on: November 21, 2008, 11:37:45 AM »
Bundling the ref bonus with the AC bonus and calling it Oracular Insight sounds neat. Maybe with the ability to share it with the party later on.
Yeah, if I cap AC, initiative, and Reflex saves by level, then I could probably grant all three at level 1.  Good idea.

Also, the latest write-up does get to share the Reflex and Initiative bonus, just not until quite late.  I can rearrange all that.

Also, for the sharing abilities I've already created, is a 10 foot radius good?  I didn't want to go nuts with this, but I also want it to be useful.  I guess the idea wasn't to make this so much of an in-combat buff (because the oracle will probably retreat from melee), but more of a pre-combat buff. 

If the group tavels near eachother, they would all have (at high levels) Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and +oracle's Wis bonus to Reflex saves and initiative.  Maybe he needs a solid boost to Spot and Listen checks to help prevent surprise in the first place.  If the oracle isn't surprised, perhaps all allies within the radius would also not be surprised.


An idea that just occurred to me, instead of gaining the precision damage for himself only, grant the damage to allies as well when the oracle expends the spell slot?
Good idea.  I have to figure out how to do it now.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 9034
  • WARNING: Homing Miko
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #238 on: November 21, 2008, 12:12:48 PM »
I think an initial 10ft is nice, and you can expand it to 20 then 30ft later. They're all still in the globe of an incoming fireball or breath weapon.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

ZanKhellendros

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Forever searching the gray
    • FantasyRealms
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #239 on: November 21, 2008, 06:04:29 PM »
  Could the radius be larger, not by much.
  Its not the same but the paladin gets his radius at 3rd level, its not as powerfull but its the same area of effect. The palidin is a good front liner but the oracle doesn't seem to be, although its AC is nice. The extra distance may be nessesarry. And its an 8th level ability too if I recall.
  How much does the level difference count against the strength of the ability?
  Of course I could be way off base too...

 :sparta
"Ghast-a-pult" Robbypants
Fantasy Realms Blog

"Back me up and I'll cut a path through these guys""Sounds good"" Wait, did I say, path? I mean a five-lane blacktop highway with a two-lane service road - and I'm packin' a fist full of tokens and a radar detector"