D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]

[SiggyDevil]

Here's how I'd do it.
There's the main type (base class) and then all subtypes are different tracks of autoscaling feats for each (improve at levels 1, 6 ,11, 16, or just grant a list of maneuvers like a Cleric Domain)

Essentially the subtypes of each main class are subsumed in to the main class.
There would be no distinction between a Fighter (Paladin) and Paladin base class other than the fact that the former option is vastly better in combat.

Fighter: (high HP, great defenses, average mobility)
Swashbuckler
Knight
Paladin
Ranger
Warblade
Crusader
Swordsage
Soulknife
Samurai
Kensai (PrC)
Exotic Weapon Master
Psychic Warrior

Rogue: (average HP, average defenses, great mobility)
Swashbuckler
Swordsage
Soulknife
Ninja
Assassin
Psychic Warrior
Beguiler (?)

[Midnight_v]

Ha Ha Ha
Can't wait to see what this game turns into...

[Elennsar]

So far, I agree with Wizard here, though I like Siggy's class list.

[SiggyDevil]

lulz more like a "Role List"!

[Elennsar]

Class, role, archetype, Template, whatever.

 

[RobbyPants]

Maybe I need to watch more Princess Bride/Three Musketeers, but I cannot 'define' easily what abilities constitute a 'Swashbuckler'.

That's a lot of what I was trying to accomplish with my Cinematic Strike/Charge abilities.  I wanted a daring, lightly armored fighter who could mechanically utilize skills like Balance, Jump, and Tumble in combat for things other than avoiding AoOs.

Now, if we can come up with a good (hopufully not contrived) way of representing this guy with existing classes/new ACFs/feats/manuevers, then I'd be willing to drop the class.  It's just now, as the system stands, there's no real reason to fight with a one-handed weapon.

I think my next project will be to try to re-orgainize the fighter that we put up a while ago.  If I can work in Foil at a lower level, this will make a fighter/rogue multiclass much more appealing.  Also, a fighter ACF or two will go a long ways toward making a "swashbuckler" without there being a class for it.

[bkdubs123]

I'll take a look at the Fighter again and see if I can't come up with a Swashbuckler ACF that you find satisfactory. Communicate through PM or in thread?

[RobbyPants]

You can PM me if you want.  Whatever's easiest for you.

I'm trying to work on that right now too.  Right now, I'm looking to bump foil up a few levels, but I'm having trouble figuring out what to move.  As it stands, the current mid-level odd-leveled abilities are as follows:

5) Battlefield Recon, Surprise Lunge
7) Shake it Off
9) True Grit
11) Foil

Simply looking at the fighter, I'm not sure how far I want to push back True Grit.  Maybe I could swap Foil and True Grit.  Alternately, I could simply add it to level 7 along with Shake it Off.  This would make fighter level 7 a very strong level indeed.  All I need to do at that point is figure out what to put at level 11.  Anyway, the point is to get Foil up to a level early enough that you can take some fighter levels, and then jump out to rogue, swordsage, or warblade if you want.

As far as ACFs go, I was thinking something along these lines:
- lose medium and heavy armor proficiency.  Lose light, heavy, and tower shield proficiency (keep bucklers).
- gain Canny Defense (Int mod added to AC, but capped at fighter level.  Only in light or no armor, wearing a buckler or no shield, carrying a light load).

- possibly switch a good Fort save for a good Ref save

- lose True Grit.
- gain (insert save booster here).  Possibly this could be evasion.  The other option is to give an ability that lets you add your Dex mod to saves instead of Con mod.

I could drop Art of War at level 3 to give Insightful Strike, but I think Art of War would be handy for trip and disarm attempts.  I'm torn here.

I think that would be enough.  Shake it Off is a very handy ability, and I don't think it's that big of a stretch for the swashbuckler to have.

Anyway, I'll post the specifics soon.

[RobbyPants]

Okay, here's where I'm at so far for the Swashbuckler Fighter ACF.  I had to redo the fighter just a bit, so I'm going to post this here and in the Classes thread.  I'm hoping I didn't go overboard at level 7 with giving both Foil and Shake it off.  Tell me what you think!


Fighter

1   Bonus Feat, Weapon Aptitude
2   Bonus Feat
3   Art of War
4   Bonus Feat   
5   Battlefield Recon, Surprise Lunge   
6   Bonus Feat
7   Shake it Off, Foil   
8   Bonus Feat
9   True Grit   
10  Bonus Feat
11  Array of Stunts
12  Bonus Feat
13  Improved Shake it Off
14  Bonus Feat
15  Improved Foil   
16  Bonus Feat
17  Improved Array of Stunts
18  Bonus Feat
19  Greater Shake it Off
20  Bonus Feat, Supreme Reach

[spoiler]Weapon Aptitude
As the Warblade ability.

Art of War
Fighters train extensively in the basic arts of combat.  At 3rd level the fighter gains a +1 bonus to opposed Trip, Disarm, Bull Rush, Sunder, Grapple, Feint, and Overrun checks.  This bonus increases by +1 every three fighter levels thereafter.

Battlefield Recon
Fighters battle against a great many foes, and learn to identify them quickly.  A Fighter of 5th level or higher may add his class level to all Knowledge checks to identify creatures, and always counts as trained in any such knowledge check.

Surprise Lunge
As an immediate action the Fighter may treat his threatened area as 5' farther than usual, and any interrupted action which would then trigger an attack of opportunity does so. The fighter moves 5' such that the creature now triggering this AoO would be within his normal threat range, and then resolves the attack of opportunity. His threatened area then returns to normal.

Shake it Off
At 7th level, the fighter gains the ability to shake off various impeding effects.  As a full round action, a fighter can attempt remove one of the following effects: blind, confused, dazzled, deaf, exhausted, fatigued, shaken, or sickened.  To remove the effect, the fighter is allowed to roll another saving throw, at the original DC of the effect. 

If the effect was caused by a spell that did not allow a saving throw, the fighter may attempt a Fort save against a normal DC for a spell or spell-like ability of that level.  Any other condition that does not allow a save cannot be removed with this ability.

Foil
At level 7, a fighter can attempt to foil an opponent's action, causing it to fail, as an immediate action against an adjacent opponent.  A fighter may foil another attack, a spell (even if cast defenisvely), or a skill check.  To resolve the foil, the fighter makes an opposed attack roll using his full base attack bonus and all modifiers he'd normally add.  If the fighter wins this opposed roll, the action fails. 

If foiling an attack, the opponents opposes the fighter with his attack roll.  If foiling a spell, the caster opposes the fighter with a Concentration check.  If foiling a skill check, the opponent opposes the fighter with the appropriate skill check.

True Grit
Fighters must learn to tough it out under fire.  A Fighter of 9th level or higher may add his constitution bonus to any Reflex or Will save he has to make.

Array of Stunts
At 11th level the fighter gains an extra swift action each round.  This extra action can also be used as an immediate action.

Improved Shake it Off
At 13th level, a fighter can use shake it off to remove one of the following effects: cowering, dazed, fascinated, frightened, nauseated, panicked, paralyzed, and stunned.  A fighter may use this ability despite the condition preventing him from using full round actions.

Improved Foil   
At 15th level, the fighter can use his foil ability at a greater range with a melee or ranged weapon.  If using a melee weapon, the fighter can use foil against any opponent within his reach.  If using a ranged weapon, the fighter can use foil with 30 feet or the weapon's first range increment, whichever is greater.  All range penalties (if any) apply to the opposed roll.

Improved Array of Stunts
At 17th level the fighter gains an extra swift action each round, which is in addition to the extra swift action he gains from Array of Stunts.  This extra action can also be used as an immediate action.

Greater Shake it Off
At 19th level a fighter may use Shake it Off and Improved Shake if Off as a move action.

Supreme Reach
At 20th level, a fighter's melee reach increases by five feet.  All range increments for ranged weapons are doubled.  The fighter may use Foil with a ranged weapon at a distance of up to 60 feet.[/spoiler]


Alternate Class Feature: Swashbuckler

Lose:

• Medium and heavy armor proficiencies.
• Light, heavy, and tower shielf proficiencies (but retain buckler proficiency).
• Battlefield Recon at level 5
• True Grit at level 9

Move:

• Art of War is moved from level 3 to level 5.

Gain:

• Canny Defense at level 1.  The fighter adds his Intelligence mod to AC, to a maximum of his fighter level.  This bonus only applies if wearing light or no armor, wearing a buckler or no shield, and carrying a light load.  If the fighter his denied his Dexterity bonus to AC, he does not apply this bonus.
• Insightful Strike at level 3.  The fighter can add his Int mod to damage on any melee weapon with which he could use the Weapon Finesse feat.
• Tuck and Roll at level 9: The fighter can add his Dexterity mod to any Fotitude or Reflex save that he makes.

So, the progression would look like this:
[spoiler]

1   Bonus Feat, Weapon Aptitude, Canny Defense
2   Bonus Feat
3   Insightful Strike
4   Bonus Feat   
5   Art of War, Surprise Lunge   
6   Bonus Feat
7   Shake it Off, Foil   
8   Bonus Feat
9   Tuck and Roll   
10  Bonus Feat
11  Array of Stunts
12  Bonus Feat
13  Improved Shake it Off
14  Bonus Feat
15  Improved Foil   
16  Bonus Feat
17  Improved Array of Stunts
18  Bonus Feat
19  Greater Shake it Off
20  Bonus Feat, Supreme Reach

[/spoiler]

[bkdubs123]

And this is what I have. Don't know if it's too much to be an ACF, but it's what I came up with. You can mess around with proficiencies and other things if you want.

The Swashbuckler

1   Bonus Feat, Art of the Duel
2   Bonus Feat
3   Surprise Lunge
4   Bonus Feat   
5   Cinematic Panache
6   Bonus Feat
7   Foil   
8   Bonus Feat
9   Explosive Reflexes
10  Bonus Feat
11  Improved Foil
12  Bonus Feat
13  Array of Stunts
14  Bonus Feat
15  Supreme Reach   
16  Bonus Feat
17  Supreme Foil
18  Bonus Feat
19  Greater Explosive Reflexes
20  Bonus Feat, Supreme Panache

So, somethings were cut (Weapon Aptitude, Art of War, Battlefield Recon, Shake it Off, True Grit), and somethings were moved around (Surprise Lunge, Foil, Improved Foil, Supreme Reach), and some things were added (Art of the Duel, Cinematic Panache, Explosive Reflexes, Supreme Foil, Greater Explosive Reflexes, and Supreme Panache). Below the added abilities are explained in greater detail.

Art of the Duel - You have been trained to excel in one on one combat, to value agility and precision rather than toughness and brute force, and to act swiftly to take advantage of changes in the pace of a battle. You gain a +1 bonus to initiative, and to trip, disarm, and feint checks. You can feint as a swift action. The bonus from this ability increases to +2 at 3rd level, and by +1 every three levels after that.

Cinematic Panache - At 5th level the soul of the Swashbuckler is easily visible in your maneuvering through combat. Based on your ranks in Balance, Tumble, Jump, and Perform you gain useful and unique fighting capabilities.

If you have 8 or more ranks in Balance you do not lose your Dexterity modifier to AC for being attacked while balancing, and can take 10 on Balance checks even while distracted or distressed. If you have 12 or more ranks you can move at your full speed while balancing at no penalty. If you have 16 or more ranks you can move at double your full speed while balancing at no penalty.

If you have 8 or more ranks in Jump/Tumble you deal an extra 2d6 damage to any foe you charge or are flanking. If you have 12 or more ranks you can charge over difficult terrain at your full speed. If you have 16 or more ranks you deal an extra 4d6 damage to any foe you charge or are flanking and can make a single 90 degree turn during your movement as part of a charge.

If you have 8 or more ranks in Perform you can add your Charisma modifier to AC so long as you are wearing armor no heavier than light and no shield heavier than a buckler. If you have 12 or more ranks you can add your Charisma modifier to your Will saves. If you have 16 or more ranks you can use Perform as a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, once per encounter, to cause all foes within 30ft to become fascinated as the Bardic Music effect, save DC 10 + 2 for every 5 points your check beats a creature's CR.

Explosive Reflexes - As a swift action, you can roll a new initiative check. This roll becomes your new initiative and you act accordingly. After using this ability you can't use it for another 1d4 rounds.

Supreme Foil - At 17th level you can combine the efforts of Surprise Lunge and Improved Foil with a single immediate action. This allows you to make foil attempts with a melee weapon against any foe within your reach +5ft, and increase your threatened area by 5ft. For the rest of the round if you hit a foe with an attack of opportunity the provoking action is wasted.

Greater Explosive Reflexes - Whenever you use Explosive Reflexes and roll high enough to take a second turn immediately after your current turn, treat all foes as flat-footed for the rest of the round.

Supreme Panache - As long as you have 23 or more ranks in Balance, Jump/Tumble, or Perform you gain a fantastic combat trick.

Balance: You can make Balance checks to oppose or initiate bull rush, overrun, grapple, or trip attempts.

Jump/Tumble: Once per round you can make a Tumble check to move at any time as an immediate action.

Perform: Whenever you deal damage to a foe you may make a Perform check against your Foe's modified Level Check (1d20+HD+Highest Ability score). For every point you beat their check that foe takes a penalty to attack rolls and AC against you (max -5).

[RobbyPants]

I see what you mean about it being a bit much for an ACF.  Still, I really like the Panache abilities.  I still wanted some way to utilize Balance/Jump/Tumble, and I left those out of my ACF for brevity.  I might see if I can find a way to work the two in together.  Of course, if I go too far, it will end up becoming it's own distinct class.

I might hold off a bit to see what others think about these two versions.

[Elennsar]

I'm not sure what to say, so not commenting. "Interesting." isn't helpful unless you can read my mind, and even then its not very specific.

As for Balance/Jump/Tumble...you could make it so that anyone could do those feats. Swashbucklers and the like would have the skills to pull it off, but even a Highlander (as in the Scots with claymores, not the guy in the movies that didn't exist) theoretically could.

Not sure if that's a good idea or not, but throwing it out to be chewed on.

[RobbyPants]

What I like about bkdubs123's abilities is that they're based on skill ranks.  This makes them easier to predict by level, and it cuts down on skill checks in combat (which cuts out randomness as well as extra dice rolls).

[Elennsar]

A good thing, that. But you could still have it as either "Swashbucklers" or "anyone who meets the requirements'.

[RobbyPants]

It's a possiblity.  I guess it's not the end of the world for rogues, monks, and bards to be able to do these things.  Of course, if it's being worked into skills, most skills allow for things like this on a successful skill check, not for merely having X ranks.  It would certainly make for easier multiclassing for a swashbuckler.  Once you pick up Foil, you could jump out and start taking rogue.

Also, one last thing that I never specified:

I don't know that I listed the fighter's class skills when I posted it.  I wanted the fighter to have Jump and Tumble, but I don't know about Balance.  Part of the swashbuckler ACF could be to add Balance to the list of class skills.

[RobbyPants]

Sorry I've been so busy lately.  I'm trying to complete three more specialist classes to fill in the gaps of the Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, and the Warmage.  I wanted to make the Oracle, Summoner, and Transmuter.  I don't have all the class features finished yet, but I've been working on the spell list.  Right now it's more of a rough draft.  The spell lists aren't complete, and I'm open to any suggestions.  I'd like about 10-15 low level spells per spell level, and about 5-10 high level spells per spell level.  I've only used the PHB and Spell Compendium to pick out spells.  I still want to search through at least the PHB2 and Complete Mage.  Anyway, here are the three classes in a very loose format.  The idea is each class will have the same chasis as the other three specialist casting classes.  The real difference comes in the form of some class features and spell list.

Oracle

The basic idea here is to make mostly a Divination specialist with some Abjuration support.  I was iffy about including any combat divinations, like True Strike, but at the moment they're part of the spell list.  I threw a few enchantments in such as Confusion, with the idea being that the oracle is hindering others ability to desern things.  So far I haven't included any divine spells, but I'm tempted to go and add things like Augury as an arcane spell.

I wanted this class to be a Wis-based arcane caster, which is, as far as I know, a first.  I can't think of any other arcane classes to do this.  As far as class features go, I was thinking something along the lines of Bardic Knowledge (Int-based), and some defensive abilities based on a keen insight.  I think adding Wis-mod to AC in light or no armor could work well.  Perhaps later a Wis mod added to Refelx saves and possibly Initiative could work well.  Perhaps at higher levels the Oracle can warn allies, and grant some bonuses to them also.  Maybe an ability to actively search using Spot and Listen as a swift action?  Again, these parts still need some work.

As far as Advanced Learning goes, I was thinking about givng access to any Abjuration or Divination off the Sorcerer/Wizard list.

Spell List

[RobbyPants]

Summoner

The basic idea behind this class is to summon things to help out.  Basically, this is supposed to come in the form of summoning hinderences like the various fog spells and Web and summoning creatures.  I deliberately left out the bulk of any direct damage Conjurations and the teleportation spells.  So, as far as Advanced Learning goes, I'm not sure how to handle this.  Should I grant access to any arcane Conjuration spell?  Maybe just any Conjuration(Summoning) and Conjuration(Creation)?  This keeps them from getting the teleport spells, but they can pick up some direct damage if they want.  That might be the best way to go.

I haven't put too much thought into class features here.  Basically, I was thinking about boosts to summons as the Summoner's level increases.  I'd probably hand out Augment Summoning as a bonus feat at some point.  An alternate is to break it up into two features: one grants a +2 enhancment bonus to Str and Con, and another increases it to +4.  Other than that, there would probably be things like summoning as a standard action instead of taking a full round.  I might empower and maybe maximize the dice rolled for using a Summon Monster spell to summon several weaker creatures (I still have to work out the specifics).  That's the jist of it for now.


Spell List

[RobbyPants]

Transmuter

The idea here is to create a class that primarily focuses on buffs (for self and others).  The bulk of these are obvious combat buffs and also some debuffs.  As with the other two classes, I had a harder time with the spell list, especially at higher levels.

I haven't really put much thought into class features for this class at all.  Free Extending for some buffs could be nice (Int mod per day, maybe?).  Harder to dispel buffs?  This one needs the most fleshing out.


Also, I was looking to create an ACF for this class to make it a bit more gishy.  I think Transmutation lends itself to this.  The ACF name could use some work.

Alternate Class Feature: Battle Transmuter

Gain: Hit dice increase to d8 and your base attack bonus advances like a cleric (3/4 your level).  You gain proficiency with two additional martial weapons, for a total of three weapons.

Lose: You have one less spell slot available to you for each spell level you can cast.


Spell List

[veekie]

The Oracle

Spell list make pretty much anything but a gish/support(bard style, only with insight instead of morale bonuses) unlikely to succeed, so 3/4 BAB? The idea seems to make for a nice Zen Archery gish.
Bardic Knowledge, Wis to AC/Ref in light armor, gain the ability to share this with allies at later levels, thats one.
Precision damage, and possibly the ability to grant allies precision damage as well, would be nice.
At the high->capstone level, maybe add a Time Regression ability, where he could oracularly redo a round.
As for the Advanced Learning, perhaps add the cleric list as well?

Summoner

Nice, fairly well rounded spell list here. I'd say let them have at the full sorc/wiz conjuration list for Adv. Learning. Theres not much on the list they can't already do one way or another anyway, so this would serve to specialise the summoner, or diversify, in the case of teleports.
As for class features, heres one suggestion, a Build-Your-Own-Familiar class feature, like the revamped ranger animal companion. Unlike the more typical pets, this is one they get to just resummon next day if it goes poof, and it can be more combat worthy than the usual familiar(about on par with animal companion I guess, but more exotic abilities available). Assemble it out of an Outsider chassis(since you could fit almost any look into an outsider), slap on wings and claws for a demon, clap a breath attack on for a dragon, etc.
The standard action summoning, and summon monster maximize are fairly compulsory here, while Augment Summoning should be made into a class feature that grants a scaling bonus instead(frees it for progression into epic, should anyone wish to go there.

Transmuter

For the Battle Transmuter, drop the martial weapon proficiencies for Improved Natural Attack, I reckon, the transmuter mostly using transmuted natural attack forms anyway.
Class features, borrow bits off the Shapeshift Druid, perhaps partial transformations(popping claws, wings, armored skin, etc) rather than a full out bear out. Having natural attacks on demand would make it a nice close quarters gish.
Then you put the harder to dispel and free extending Transmutations on, they're nice, but don't catch the eye like something more unique to the transmuter does.

[RobbyPants]

If I lean more toward polymorphed fighting for the Transmuter, I might want to add in an ability to cast spells in various forms.  Also, I think there are a couple other spells I saw in the Spell Compendium that would fit nicely.  One increasees the damage die of one natural attack as if it were a size larger, and the other increases the crit threat range.