Author Topic: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]  (Read 68262 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« on: September 10, 2008, 01:24:18 PM »
A month or so back I started a thread on Rebalancing 3.5.  It's gotten huge to the point that I was asked to split it into several sub-threads in the house-rules page.

Just so we're on the same page, what I'm looking to do is help close the gap between the drastically overpowered and the underpowered.  I'm trying to remove some of the worst abuses.  If you're familiar with JaronK's Tier system, I'm aiming for roughly a tier 3 game.

I will try to update these first posts with the current versions of what we've "agreed on."  Any recent additions will be in red so they're easier to find.

That being said, we can begin the work below.


(Cross-post links:)

Rebalancing Compendium

Races 
Core Classes
Other Classes 
Skills & Feats 
Spells 
Combat & Rules 
Equipment 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 09:14:54 AM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2008, 01:24:35 PM »
Other Classes


Swashbuckler
This has been replaced with an ACF for the fighter.


Warmage
Modify the damage granted by Warmage's Edge.  The extra damage granted is equal to the warmage's Int mod (minimum 1) x the spell's level.  The warmage adds his Int mod (minium 1) to 0-level spells.  The ability functions the same in all other respects.

Scout
- Skirmish deals damage to creatures immune to critical hits, but it only does half damage.

Warlock
- Eldritch Blast damage is 1d6 per warlock level
- The warlock gains an invocation every level, instead of the old 12/20 progression.
- Damage Reduction/Cold Iron starts at 2 points at 2nd level, and increases another two points every four levels thereafter.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 09:36:18 AM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2008, 01:24:42 PM »
Psionic Classes


Psion
I think any fixes needed can come in the form of fixing certain powers.  Most of these corespond to broken spells.


Psychic Warrior
The psychic warrior adds 2 power points cumulative per level.
[spoiler=PP progression]
Level  old PP  new PP
1      0       2
2      1       5
3      3       9
4      5       13
5      7       17
6      11      23
7      15      29
8      19      35
9      23      41
10     27      47
11     35      57
12     43      67
13     51      77
14     59      87
15     67      97
16     79      111
17     91      125
18     103     139
19     115     153
20     127     167
[/spoiler]


Soulknife
The soulknife will be dropped, and an ACF will be available to the psychic warrior.  The original link can be found at The Mind's Eye.

[spoiler=Soulbound Weapon]
Soulbound Weapon                           

You can summon a specific weapon to your hand that is bound to your very soul.
Level: 1st and 2nd.
Replaces: You lose your 2nd-level bonus feat.
Benefit: You must choose a soulbound weapon at 1st level and you gain the Weapon Focus feat with this weapon. Also, the first power you learn must be call weaponry. You can summon your chosen soulbound weapon to your hand using call weaponry.

At 2nd level, you gain the soulbound weaponclass ability, and the weapon you summon using call weaponry is of the same type as you chose at 1st level. Its physical appearance slowly changes, growing in power as you do. You must manifest the power call weaponry to obtain your soulbound weapon; you retain the weapon for the duration of the power. You may still use the call weaponry power as normal if you wish. This is a specific weapon every time you summon it, and it automatically gains a weapon enhancement at the following levels:
4th    +1 weapon
8th    +2 weapon
12th   +3 weapon
16th   +4 weapon
20th   +5 weapon

Also, add the following augmentation to your call weaponry power:

Augmentation: When you manifest your soulbound weapon, for each additional 5 power points you spend, you may add a weapon enhancement of +1 value to the weapon. For example, if you spend an additional 10 power points, you could add two +1 weapon enhancements or a single +2 weapon enhancement.[/spoiler]



Wilder
Powers Known
The wilder starts at first level with two powers known.  Each level thereafter, she learns another power.

Wild Surge/Psychic Enervation
This version of Wild Surge removes the need for Psychic Enervation.  Now, surging is a gamble, slightly in favor of the wilder.  When using wild surge, your manifester level is modified (see the table below).  If the power has an augment cost, any boost to your manifester level adds the same amount of points when you activate the power (so you can augment for free).  If your manifester level drops below one, the power fails.  Note that this mofification is applied after any other effect that would adjust your manifester level, such as the Practiced Manifester feat.

Wilder   Manifester
level    level
______________________
1-4      +1d4-2
5-8      +2d4-4
9-12     +3d4-6
13-16    +4d4-8
17-20    +5d4-10


Volatile Mind
If someone targets you with a mind affecting spell, power, or ability, they must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Wilder level + Cha mod) or be dazed for one round.  This does not apply if you are in a mind affecting area of effect. Volatile Mind is a mind affecting ability, although it does not trigger Volatile Mind from other wilders.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 09:36:48 AM by RobbyPants »
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2008, 01:24:55 PM »
* Reserved *
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2008, 01:25:06 PM »
* Reserved Q & A *
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RabidPirateMan

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2008, 09:29:28 PM »
Anyone with the link to the Hexblade fix posted by that developer would be doing us all a favor.

Also, I wanted to ask you, Robby- should we save the hybrid caster class fixes until after we get to the spell fixes?

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2008, 09:52:49 PM »
Which hybrids?  Like the Mystic Theruge?

As for the hexblade, I can post some brainstorming ideas and we can go from there.  Just a few thoughts:

(Note: I might want to use OneWing4ngel's paladin as a metric for this, at least to some extent).

- Let Hexes be per encounter, not per day.

- I like the idea of adding new types of hexes* as the hexblade gains levels.  Any of these can be used for one encouter use of a hex.  Each would improve when the hexblade gets Greater Hex.


* Some possible new hexes (I haven't put a lot of thought into these.  I just want to get the ball rolling.  Obviously, some should be given at a higher level):
Vulnerability Hex: -4 penalty on saves.
Debilitating Hex: -6 Str penalty.  Cannot lower Str below 1.
Bewildering Hex: Target is confused for one round per level.
Penetrating Hex: Target's Spell resistance is lowered by four points.  Note this is not a penalty, so multiple uses stack.
Clumsiness Hex: The target falls prone or drops all items carried (your choice.  Reflex save to negate instead of Will).  Each round on the target's turn, he must make a Reflex save or fall prone or drop all items carried (your choice).  Three successful saves in a row ends this hex.
Unlucky Hex: Target suffers a 20% miss chance on each attack made.  This is not concealment, so it is not thwarted by True Seeing or similar effects.
Draining Hex: Target takes one negative level (Fort save to negate instead of Will).
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RabidPirateMan

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2008, 10:18:54 PM »
Huh, I don't know why I thought these were called hybrid classes... I meant Beguiler, Dread Necro, etc.  A lot of problems with these classes come from their small spell list- giving them more spells might make them stronger, making it much less pertinent to start tweaking class features.

Mister_Sinister

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 910
  • For some people, four walls are three too many.
    • Email
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2008, 10:29:21 PM »
For the purpose of the Swashy, I would like to humbly direct you to a fix AC and I made for our game, which I think deals with this problem nicely. However, in general, I would like to address the Swashy more fully in another idea post of mine, when I get around to it.

What you've done with the hexblade is nice so far, including your hex suggestions. I would keep an eye on Bewildering Hex and Draining Hex, though - those would probably need to be granted fairly high-up.

Everything I learned about DnD I learned from Frank Trollman at The Gaming Den... but nowadays, my work space is the New DnD Wiki.

Check them both out!


RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2008, 10:52:37 PM »
Huh, I don't know why I thought these were called hybrid classes... I meant Beguiler, Dread Necro, etc.  A lot of problems with these classes come from their small spell list- giving them more spells might make them stronger, making it much less pertinent to start tweaking class features.
Well, because of their spell lists, they're already far less problematic than wizards and sorcerers.  A few spells might still need some work.  I know JaronK (and a few others) strongly considered using these three classes to replace the sorcerer.  Personally, I like the feeling of the sorcerer enough to want to keep it around.  I feel the sorcerer can be fixed by fixing the spells.


What you've done with the hexblade is nice so far, including your hex suggestions. I would keep an eye on Bewildering Hex and Draining Hex, though - those would probably need to be granted fairly high-up.
I think in my original write up, I had Draining Hex at 18th level, but I don't remember about Bewildering Hex.

Even still, is this all it needs?  I guess these hexes would help augment the hexblade's spell list as well...
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Mister_Sinister

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 910
  • For some people, four walls are three too many.
    • Email
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2008, 11:02:53 PM »
The thing about ol' hexy is that he probably does need more - I just can't think of what. If I get hit with something inspirational, I will post it here ASAP.

Everything I learned about DnD I learned from Frank Trollman at The Gaming Den... but nowadays, my work space is the New DnD Wiki.

Check them both out!


Shadowhowler

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 149
    • Email
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2008, 04:28:52 AM »
Other Classes


Swashbuckler
- Lose the dodge bonus gained at every five levels.
- Gain Canny Defense.  A swashbuckler wearing light or no armor, and carrying a buckler or no shield gains her Intelligence bonus (minimum +1) to her AC.  She cannot add a bonus greater than her swashbuckler class level, and she loses this bonus anytime she is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC.
- Still more needed...

 
I like this replacement for the Swashbuckler... but your right, more is needed... especialy if we are still trying to bring the Fighter (and thes the Swashbuckler) up to around tier 3.

DaveoftheRave

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2008, 06:04:26 AM »
Quote
I like this replacement for the Swashbuckler... but your right, more is needed... especialy if we are still trying to bring the Fighter (and thes the Swashbuckler) up to around tier 3.

This is my Swashbuckler.  It is pretty much the swashbuckler combined with the duelist.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1352.msg35362#msg35362

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2008, 09:48:42 AM »
The thing about ol' hexy is that he probably does need more - I just can't think of what. If I get hit with something inspirational, I will post it here ASAP.
This is just brainstorming, but I thought of the idea of a more-arcane/less-martial version of the hexblade.  It would grant 6th level spells (bard progression) and have 3/4 BAB and d8 hit dice.  I haven't thought about it extensively, and it would require writing up two new levels of a spell list, in addition to expaniding the old list.

Thoughts?


I like this replacement for the Swashbuckler... but your right, more is needed... especialy if we are still trying to bring the Fighter (and thes the Swashbuckler) up to around tier 3.
Yeah, it's just the beginning, but I liked that idea for it.

Also, I've been discussing a few changes to the combat rules.  The current version is in this post.  The idea isn't to rewrite how d20 combat works, but to add in some abilities that I think everyone should have, and to allow new options with other feats.

The reason I bring it up is as currently posted, it does give the swashbuckler a boost.  Now, everyone can opt to use Dex to attack in melee, and Weapon Finesse (which the swashbuckler gets at level 1) adds Dex to damage (with some restrictions explained in that post).

It's not going to fix the swashbuckler, but I think it helps, and I wanted to link that if we discuss it further.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Mister_Sinister

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 910
  • For some people, four walls are three too many.
    • Email
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2008, 12:04:38 PM »
In regard to the 'castier' hexblade: We need to decide firmly what kinda role the hexblade occupies. Is he a warrior who uses luck to cheat his opponents out of winning? A curse-mage? A skill monkey favouring screwing over probability in his favour? Once we decide that, it'll be much easier.

Personally, I go with a fighty hexblade who uses bad luck and bad ju-ju to mess up his opponents.

Everything I learned about DnD I learned from Frank Trollman at The Gaming Den... but nowadays, my work space is the New DnD Wiki.

Check them both out!


RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2008, 12:05:36 PM »
I'm fine with that, and it involves less of a rewrite.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

RabidPirateMan

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2008, 03:59:25 PM »
Hexblades should be full bab warriors.  They debuff opponents to gain the upperhand.  Kind of like how paladins have buffs and duskblades have damage.

I'd keep him at 4th level spells, but maybe add a couple more.

Elennsar

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1944
  • The Emperor is watching, the Emperor knows.
    • Email
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2008, 04:05:32 PM »
If fighty with hexes, then I would strongly suggest dumping spells. Spells make sense for people with a broadish range of effects, as opposed to specific powers.

By the same logic, paladin spellcasting isn't something I'm all that fond of, but that at least can be done more understandably. But hexblades are really just trying to using Dark And Dubious (if not necessarily evil)
powers...and being fairly combat adept. No real basis for a familarity with spellcasting.

Speaking of which, they're kind of one of those "this class exists why?" things to me...its not that I have a problem with someone playing one per se, its that I don't get what's up with the whole idea. Is there some archetype I'm overlooking? Or individual cool character?

So unless we can come up with what/who this is related to, I have a half hearted vote for dropping the class. Don't see the point of having it unless it has some nice fluff to make the crunch more understandable, particularly as good fluff will inspire what exactly to do to refine the crunch.
Faith can move mountains. It still can't deflect bullets.



"Communication with humans." is a cross-class skill for me. Please bear this in mind.

RobbyPants

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 7139
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2008, 04:57:12 PM »
Speaking of which, they're kind of one of those "this class exists why?" things to me...its not that I have a problem with someone playing one per se, its that I don't get what's up with the whole idea. Is there some archetype I'm overlooking? Or individual cool character?
Well, at the time it was created, there was a PrC black guard, but no similar base class.  This also came out before Unearthed Arcana, so there were no evil paladin variants.  In a way, it was an anti-paladin.  Each have the same BAB, HD, saves, and spells.  One uses arcane and one uses divine.  One buffs and is good, the other debuffs and is non-good.

Personally, I like the idea behind the class.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Elennsar

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1944
  • The Emperor is watching, the Emperor knows.
    • Email
Re: D&D Other Classes [Rebalancing 3.5]
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2008, 05:10:56 PM »
Then I hope that as we work to deal with the crunch, we can work to make the fluff make it all make sense. "Antipaladin" is something with issues, though the idea of someone dedicating themselves to Dark Powers in the pursuit of power (and gaining abilities like the Hexblade) makes some sense.

I'd make it so that they have to be Evil if that's the case, however.

Preferably with a reworking of the alignment system, but that's off topic for this thread.
Faith can move mountains. It still can't deflect bullets.



"Communication with humans." is a cross-class skill for me. Please bear this in mind.