Author Topic: Size Modifiers to Fortitude/Reflex Defense?  (Read 1958 times)

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Psychic Robot

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Size Modifiers to Fortitude/Reflex Defense?
« on: September 10, 2008, 08:29:52 AM »
(I have not learned the 4e rules extensively, so forgive me if I'm making a mistake.)

I like the concept of Defenses rather than saves, but something has been bothering me slightly: technically, shouldn't being big grant a bonus/penalty to Defenses?  Since touch attacks have been replaced by attacks vs. Reflex Defense, it would make sense that larger creatures (particularly really big ones) would be much easier to hit than very tiny ones.  And to balance this out, one would have to bolster the Fortitude Defense of larger foes (since big creatures are automatically more resilient to disease and such  :)).

Anyway, just a random thought.

Taishar

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Re: Size Modifiers to Fortitude/Reflex Defense?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2008, 02:35:21 PM »
There are many things that make sense that were ignored in favor of balanced game play.  You can justify it in other ways though: large creatures should have a worse reflex defense because they are bigger and not as nimble right?  Well, reflex attacks generally target an area, which often dosen't include the whole large monster, so they only need to get a part of themselves out of the way.

Or just shrug, and say required for game balance (like oozes being knocked prone) and go on your way.


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X-Codes

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Re: Size Modifiers to Fortitude/Reflex Defense?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 03:13:53 AM »
Or just shrug, and say required for game balance (like oozes being knocked prone) and go on your way.

I feel confident saying that this was done for the sake of rules simplicity.  If memory serves, in 3.5e whether or not you could trip something depended on what movement mode they were using, how many operative limbs they had, and in some cases a few other variables like corporeality.  By instead going "We don't care what you are, these things do these things to you" it's a lot easier to remember.

Elennsar

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Re: Size Modifiers to Fortitude/Reflex Defense?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2008, 03:16:39 AM »
It also is a lot less believable. And if easier to remember is pushed too far, it dumbs down the game. This may be such an area (oozes, not Reflex saves).

As an observation on such, incidently, because I didn't mean to make a possible derailer...

Big things being easier to hit is more of an AC thing. Reflexwise, if they're slow and clumsy, they'll have bad Reflexes anyway.

Fortitude...I'm leery about "bigger=tougher". It works better with dragons than elephants.

Worth raising the thought, however.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 03:22:55 AM by Elennsar »
Faith can move mountains. It still can't deflect bullets.



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Re: Size Modifiers to Fortitude/Reflex Defense?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2008, 04:00:43 AM »
It also is a lot less believable. And if easier to remember is pushed too far, it dumbs down the game. This may be such an area (oozes, not Reflex saves).

As an observation on such, incidently, because I didn't mean to make a possible derailer...

Big things being easier to hit is more of an AC thing. Reflexwise, if they're slow and clumsy, they'll have bad Reflexes anyway.

Fortitude...I'm leery about "bigger=tougher". It works better with dragons than elephants.

Worth raising the thought, however.

Dumbing down a game where it takes an hour or more for everyone to get a turn at combat is a good thing, but that's another thread.

The problem with having a set bonus/penalty to AC or any defense because of size is that the monster creation rules are anything but static.  There's just no point to having X - 2 when you basically get to pick whatever the hell you want for X (by and large, the rules for monster creation ARE that lenient).