Author Topic: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking  (Read 19167 times)

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GawainBS

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2008, 04:05:21 PM »
Not at all lacking, but rather odd: the Warmind with his seperate manifesting, but also its Knowledge (Psionics) as a prerequisite. It seems intended for PsyWars, but... I don't know, those two seperate manifesting lists, but with the same source, it just strikes me as strange.

Stratovarius

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2008, 04:35:45 PM »
I would really recommend having it add to Psywarrior manifesting levels if that is used to enter the class. The same can be said for the Fist of Zuoken. And in many ways, the Warmind is a one ability wonder, with Sweeping Strike being the exit point.
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AstralFire

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2008, 08:31:06 PM »
I can't believe this didn't occur to me earlier.
SPELLFIRE CHANNELER.

Worst offender. Spellfire on the whole is absolutely worthless unless you have a pet warlock or something else to power you up between fights, then it's broken-ish once a fight until you get to high levels when it is meh.


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Nox_Noctis

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2008, 08:54:26 PM »
I can't believe this didn't occur to me earlier.
SPELLFIRE CHANNELER.

Worst offender. Spellfire on the whole is absolutely worthless unless you have a pet warlock or something else to power you up between fights, then it's broken-ish once a fight until you get to high levels when it is meh.

If the Reflex save at least scaled it wouldn't totally suck... But it's stuck at Reflex 20, which is pathetic.

Also, it has odd MAD: it uses ranged attack rolls (Dex), Con to determine its Spellfire pool maximum (Con), a Charisma DC on its capstone (Cha), and has a Will Save DC 25 it may have to worry about occasionally (Wis).

EDIT: Additionally, the Will save for objects of enemies you try to drain has way too low of a DC to ever be worth trying (DC 10). It's really laughable. Oh, and returning to the horrible Reflex save, Evasion completely shuts down the ability.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 08:57:54 PM by Nox_Noctis »
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AstralFire

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2008, 08:55:33 PM »
I want to make a Spellfire PrC for wilder now. It seems to fit.


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Nox_Noctis

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2008, 10:13:24 PM »
Okay, so I was looking into Spellfire Channeler some more, trying to find some use of it (since it really does suck). Unfortunately, it cannot voluntarily expend its entire Spellfire pool (up to Constitution (score, not modifier) x 5 eventually), so that removed one more thing that the class could have potentially redeemed itself with to some small degree. I did find one... not even good, but at least decent for what it does... use of the class.

As a 2-level dip, it increases the healing potency of Spellfire rather significantly. It increases from 2 per level to 1d4+1 per Spellfire level (average 3.5, a 75% increase). Since you can store up to your Constitution score in Spellfire levels, you can be a fairly efficient heal-bot if you have a constant source of spells: as mentioned before, the Warlock is the best fit. Since you only need 2 levels, either be a Warlock 18/Spellfire Channeler 2 (not necessarily in that order), or pick up a Cohort. This means you can heal all day long (or do it the other way around and make your cohort heal you all day). A single level 9 Eldritch Blast gives you 9d4+9 hit points (31.5), making out-of-combat healing completely free all day long. And in-combat, the Warlock side comes into play, letting the character do all the other things that warlocks ordinarily do. Is it great? No. But at least it's something even remotely salvageable from this prestige class.
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AstralFire

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2008, 10:28:39 PM »
I just redid it as a Wilder Class Feature that unsucked 'em both at once.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1914.0

I don't think you can use Warlock EBs on yourself since you have to ready the action to absorb.


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Nox_Noctis

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2008, 10:32:56 PM »
Oh, right. So then make one character in the Cohort-Player relationship a Warlock and give the other two levels of Spellfire Channeler. It's still sub-optimal (if you're using Leadership, you should have already won the entire game that is D&D), but it lessens the suck of the PrC.
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Archmage Joda

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2008, 06:18:34 PM »
The Dragonlance PrC Wizard of High Sorcery was mentioned earlier, but how would one go about making it a good prc?
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Midnight_v

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2008, 10:07:55 PM »
acolyte of the skin.... I mean really wtf? :rolleyes

And the Alienist kind of sucks. I mean it has full progression so it doesn't "suck" but those class ablities fucking blow for having a cthulhu bound caster...
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Stratovarius

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2008, 11:45:18 PM »
How about the Gnome Artificer? I don't think I've ever actually even seen it mentioned, which tells me that something is wrong with it as a class.
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Wih

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2008, 06:02:53 PM »
How about the Gnome Artificer? I don't think I've ever actually even seen it mentioned, which tells me that something is wrong with it as a class.

I'm assuming you mean the Maester? Loses a caster level, in exchange for a couple of bonus item creation feats and doubling your crafting time.
If for some reason you aren't allowed Eberron material, I suppose it could be worth it if you had a CL boost to make up from somehow. But if you're after item crafting, play an Articifer, get a homonculus to craft for you, or both. Hell, even vanilla Wizards get almost the same amount of bonus feats, and don't lose the caster level.
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Stratovarius

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2008, 06:34:28 PM »
Nope, I mean the Gnome Artificer, which is in Magic of Faerun.

You more or less proved my point about people not knowing it though  :D
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woodenbandman

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2008, 09:20:37 PM »
I'm going to throw somewhat of a low blow and say that prestige paladin and ranger both suck. Prestige bard is surprisingly alright, really, but a sublime chord would whup its ass. Although... Wizard/fighter/prestige bard/sublime chord = win?

And a huge +1 to acolyte of the skin. Seriously, seriously, weak. I happen to like the Jade Phoenix mage, though. You can still have access to 8th level spells, as well as 9th level maneuvers... that's a pretty sweet deal if you ask me! especially since you can do the sublime chord thing, although the trade might not really be all that worthwhile.

Also to add to that list are the Duelist, the Arcane Archer, the Green Star Adept, and the Drunken Master (although Stagger should be part of any charger's arsenal, preferably with 2 levels of dervish).

Talen Lee

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2008, 10:34:32 PM »
Spelldancer. Try and find a GM who'll let you play one. Like, actually play one.

JaronK

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2008, 11:33:29 PM »
I'm going to throw somewhat of a low blow and say that prestige paladin and ranger both suck.

Are you insane?  Those two classes form the core of the Ubermount!  And they're very solid one or two level dips... remember that they give you all Paladin or Ranger exclusive spells, so for a Cleric Archer who wants Arrowstorm and similar, PrC Ranger is great, and PrC Paladin gives you all sorts of rather strong 4th-ish level spells.

JaronK

AndyJames

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2008, 11:42:42 PM »
What is the latest in the Supermount build with the PrC ranger/Paladin? I sort of lost track after the whole Bloodlines thing.

woodenbandman

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2008, 12:01:39 AM »
Well, JaronK, Fighter and Monk are excellent two level dips. That fact does not make the classes themselves good. I know the potential abuse to be abused with supermounts, but that doesn't make for a good class.

CountArioch

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2008, 01:20:00 AM »
Entropomancer.  A character who has the ability to harness the power of nothing should be pretty awesome, and yet it isn't.
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Psychic Robot

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Re: PrCs that look fun, but are a bit... lacking
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2008, 01:29:31 AM »
What is the latest in the Supermount build with the PrC ranger/Paladin? I sort of lost track after the whole Bloodlines thing.
PrC ranger levels stack with levels of classes that have an animal companion for abilities.  So you're doubling up even moreso with halfling outrider.