generic gun damage (d20 Modern) PEACH

[Orion]

Okay, new version in the link. Tell me what you think.

[Tema69]

Looks much better.
One thing: The Colt Anaconda is a .44 Magnum revolver. So it doesn't really fit that Medium Revolver feel. The Colt Anaconda is pretty much equal, if not superior to the Dirty Harry S&W M29 .44 Magnum. So as for your Medium Revolver example, I'd use the Ruger Service Six, or the S&W Compact J-Frame...

[Orion]

Fair enough. I was just going by the damage listed in the d20M book, but I'm happy to take your word for it.

I also changed "micro pistol" to "derringer." I figured, why confuse matters. It's effectively a generic name for a really small pistol.

[Tema69]

Indeed. Also, you might wanna look through the weapon descriptions. Semi-Auto -> Autoloader; Subgun and Assault Rifles are not Machineguns, etc...
Apart from that, it's looking good.

[Orion]

At this point, I have the following types, with "light, medium, heavy" as options within them:

Derringer
Revolver (light, medium, heavy)
Autoloader (light, medium, heavy)
Machine Pistol (light, heavy)
Rifle (hunting, short sniper, long sniper)
Shotgun (light, medium, heavy, double-barrel, sawed-off)
Submachine Gun
Assault Rifle
Machine Gun (medium, heavy)
Rocket Launcher
Grenade Launcher

I have removed "semi-autos" and there are no longer any "machine guns" in "long arms." Instead, there are submachine guns and assault rifles. Does this jive with the lingo now?

[Tema69]

I have never heard of 'short sniper rifle' or 'long sniper rifle', so what exactly do you mean? Bigger cartridges? Heavier/Longer barrels?
Also, why remove the Light Machinegun from the list?
LMG - Assault rifle cartridges; 2d8 damage.
MMG - Rifle cartridges; 2d10 damage.
HMG - Special (.50 cal for example) cartridges; 2d12 damage.

[Orion]

By "short" and "long" I meant range. One of the two listed sniper rifles is 35 pounds and huge, and the only benefit of it seems to be an extra 30' of range (which is not actually all that ungodly valuable, when you think about it). So that's what I meant. Is there a better description for that? I just want a name to separate them.

I took out "light machine gun" because the operative term in the books seemed to be "assault rifle," but if it's existing terminology, then I'm happy to put it back in.

[Tema69]

Then go Light and Heavy Sniper Rifle, to keep the coherency in the names. You might also wanna note that the difference is not only +30', but also increased damage.

---

Ohw, noes.
A Light Machinegun is a man portable, automatic weapon for sustained suppressing fire. In a military context, it is carried by 1 man per fire team or squad.
An Assault Rifle is a light semiauto and fully automatic weapon. In a military context, it is carried by all the other guys in the squad.

[Tema69]

You might actually want to just read the first paragraf in wikipedia under the different weapons.
Light Machine Gun - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Machine_Gun
Medium Machine Gun - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_Machine_Gun
Heavy Machine Gun - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Machine_Gun
Assault Rifle - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
etc...

You don't need to read the whole damn page, but the top paragraf should be enough if you need information.

[Orion]

Thanks for the links. I have a clearer idea of the hierarchy now. I was stuck in the common understanding of any weapon that's fully auto being called a "machine gun."

So now I have stats for SMGs, Assault Rifles, LMGs, MMGs, and HMGs. I basically invented stats for the LMG based on a smooth(ish) progression from Assault Rifle to MMG, which meant monkeying with the range increments a little bit. I hope the numbers are vaguely in line with reality.

I think I might be done now? I can't think of anything else I'd like to put in here, except for rules about customising guns to comic-book proportions, but I think that info needs to be somewhere else in the document I'm working on, so I won't worry about it for now.

[nemafow]

Minor detail, but do people using say, an MP5 for example in this (being a 2d6 SMG) still get their +1 mastercraft bonus to hit? Or is that negated now with the generic classes of weapons?

[Tema69]

A few minor issues left:
The Lewis .303 fires a full powered rifle round (which deals 2d10), and is therefore a bad example of a 2d8 LMG. Go with the FN SAW M249 or something an RPK or something. Also, Assault Rifles and LMG often have around the same range against a target. And you've stated the LMG as medium. I don't think I can fire it one-handed. Should be Large.
The PSG1 fires a 7.62x51mm Nato Rifle round (which deals 2d10), and most 'Light Sniper rifles' do fire such rounds, so you might wanna decrease the damage to 2d10.
Finally, I think the ranges of the Light/Medium/Heavy revolvers are somewhat too low compared to the others. I'd go with 20'/30'/40', respectively. The Medium Revolver should be Small. You might wanna consider the Light MachinePistol to be Small too. You might also wanna make the SMG Large, as they are two-handed weapons. If you're looking for one-handed SMG style fun, go with a Heavy Machinepistol (which is Medium).

Great work, Orion!

[backstabbist]

Firstly
Dont hang the lable Sniper on rifles.  Hunting rifles are for sneaking and hiding and shooting targets that dont know you are there, whereas Sniping is... uh... hunting animals with that wear clothes.  Further, the Barret is a target rifle, and some folks have specialized versions best suited for sniping, Rifles that have good range, good accuracy, and cammoflage are best for sniping... and hunting... and target matches.

Rifles are rifles, dont hang the sniper lable on base rifles, if you want, make it an accessory pack mod... which will demonstrate that the Target rem700, the Hunting rem700, and the sniper rem700 are gameswise the same gun.

Light Rifles are 2d8. 
Light sniper rifles are .223 "countersniper" guns a lot of police depts get
..... just ask a PrarrieDog about smallbore medium range accurate guns.

Keep it simple for the MGs
Light MGs are 2d8 <SAW>, and can be shot while carried (large)
Medium MGs are 2d10 <M60>, take a penalty for using without Bipod/mount (Large*)
Heavy MGs are 2d12 <50BMG class> (Huge)


Move the LMG to Exotic.
Why is the m60 exotic?  Beltfeed?  Then smaller belts are exotic as well.  You can try to have 2 MGs, Magazine MGs can be longarms and Belt MGs are exotic.  The game isnt using the tripod T&E aiming and indirect fire capabilities of full MGs, so that aint making it any different than an AK47.... BoxMag OpenBolt Auto Front & Rear Sights safety & trigger is not exotic, Beltfeed & IndirectFire is.

[Orion]

Okay, many points:

Changed revolver ranges to 20'/30'/40'.

MP5 Mastercraft Bonus: I think I'd rather leave that as a generic thing, pay PDC +2 to get a +1 to hit. It can represent getting a gun tweaked out by an expert, or representing buying a higher-than-average quality gun, such as the MP5.

Switched the "Lewis .303" to "FN Minimi" (which I found on Wiki), and moved it to "exotic" because it's belt-fed. (PS: I have no idea why the d20M designers put LMGs in "longarms" and MMGs and SMGs in "exotic." It was probably just a matter of wanting an MG on the "longarm" list.)

I've redesignated the rifles as 2d8/2d10/2d12, but not changed anything else.

[Orion]

Anything else jumping out at anybody? I feel like it's basically a complete document (with the exception of finding shotgun rules that doesn't suck), but please point out anything that's not making sense.