Author Topic: Rules Discussions  (Read 27758 times)

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Fuzzy_Logic

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Coyotes
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2008, 02:56:11 AM »
1 additional HP? Seriously?  That seems not worth the trouble of remembering.  Also, I'd let the dog scale with full character level.  It's still a dog, and it will still become increasingly irrelevant. 

Fuzzy_Logic

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Vipers
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2008, 02:59:22 AM »
What is a Viper supposed to do that is any good at all?

Fuzzy_Logic

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Tigers
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2008, 03:04:42 AM »
Wow, another awesome race for Rogues... Tiger Rogue blows Tiger Monk right out of the water, though that's hardly *your* fault...

Fuzzy_Logic

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Boars
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2008, 03:08:22 AM »
This handful of defensive abilities in no way matches up to the facerockingly awesome attacks of the Raven, Fox, Tiger, etc. 

And it's meant to be a Fighter, apparently...

Yuck!

Fuzzy_Logic

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Pythons
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2008, 03:12:52 AM »
Very very similar to Bears... who are arguably better monks...

EjoThims

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Ravens
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2008, 09:06:30 AM »
I'm going to risk chiming in with an opinion before I've studied the system in depth, because I've been dying for an excuse to congratulate you.  I don't normally like animal-people or shapeshifting heroes, but you've somehow managed, in the space of a very few words, to make them seem cool and interesting.  Maybe I've been playing too much Fire Emblem. 

I don't know how concerned you are with game balance, or what character classs you're primarily intending to support.  I tend to start wiht the assumption that casters are strong, fighters weak, and that cleric, rogue, druid, and wizard is the iconic party, just to warn you of my perspective. 

Anyway, I risk making a fool of myself having read only a couple of these Verold races, but... wow.  Just wow.  I'd keep a VERY close eye on these Ravens, as their power level looks poentially through the roof. 

First, +4 to INT.  This is a big deal, especially with no penalties you care about.  That +2 to save DCs may look innocent at first, but gets progressively more dangerous the more optimized a character is.  If this pushes your mobs from saving on 15s to saving on 17s, that's an enormous boost in effectiveness.  Possibly the saves of typical Veroldan mooks are highger than in D&D, but otherwise this right here seems dangerous. 

Second, they are godly at low level.  Play a Wizard! you should easil have a 20 INT, giving you 7 first-level spells with which to blow away the opposition.  Not much fares well against DC 16 color sprays or greases at that level, and any staying power issues are gone. Alternately, play a rogue! Shell out for an 18 INT (delicious skill points!) and get two sweet area spells per day, all of which set up your sneak attacks.  This get less attractive at higher levels, but is still decent.

Third, flight.  I'm not one who thinks low-level flight is absolutely broken, but coming for free at level one it's a very nice perk, especially or the rogues. 

Who knows, maybe other tribes have simlarly ridiculous features, (Cranes don't) but these go to some of the game's best classes, so be careful. 

PS-- the animal form's stat mods just bug me.  A temporary INT bonus doesn't give skill points, and presumeably one can't cast spells.  What's the point?  The only actual use appears to be turning into a bird to get a bonus on Knowledge checks, which seems... bizzarre. 




Yea... Most of these were written before I started doing CO stuff, and even now I'm still bad at judging casters.

Most of these have also been re-written at least 6 times because of random computer problems I was having, even after things were supposedly fixed causing my HD to have to be wiped once every few months.

I am very concerned with game balance, just not with attempting to balance this against the standard game. And I pretty much agree with your class evaluation.

Ravens are something I've been very concerned with, especially because they don't seem powerful unless you know what can be done with the things given to them. A new player will suck much ass as a Raven, but an experienced one will dominate. And I'm having a hard time bringing those ends together while still maintaining the flavor I wanted.

And you are correct, in animal forms they cannot cast spells, though taking the SS feat "Surrogate Spellcasting" would allow to do so. And the animal/hybrid form abilities are usually based off the actual animals. Changing the animal form stat boosts to purely physical stats is something I'm actually leaning towards, but I decided it was time to stop fiddling with these and get them out there for input.

After I get some input, then I'll fiddle some more, update, ask for more input, etc.

EjoThims

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Coyotes
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2008, 09:08:29 AM »
1 additional HP? Seriously?  That seems not worth the trouble of remembering.  Also, I'd let the dog scale with full character level.  It's still a dog, and it will still become increasingly irrelevant. 

There's a feat and a domain that each only improve healing spells by 1 point, and though they're underpowered, I thought it'd be a nice bonus to roll into the heal skill boost. This is probably the 1st thing I'll boost up a bit if people think Coyotes are a little subpar.

Brining the dog back up to full progression would be the second.  :D

EjoThims

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Vipers
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2008, 09:10:09 AM »
What is a bard supposed to do that is any good at all?

Fixed?

And, perhaps, my having to ask that question is why Vipers seem so unfocused...  :lol

EjoThims

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Tigers
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2008, 09:11:12 AM »
Wow, another awesome race for Rogues... Tiger Rogue blows Tiger Monk right out of the water, though that's hardly *your* fault...

Yea... I couldn't really think of anything to give them other than direct benefits to the monk class that would actually help a monk more than other classes. @.@

EjoThims

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Boars
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2008, 09:12:00 AM »
This handful of defensive abilities in no way matches up to the facerockingly awesome attacks of the Raven, Fox, Tiger, etc. 

And it's meant to be a Fighter, apparently...

Yuck!

Then help me make it more facerockingly awesome!

And check out the Fighter changes I posted... I think they make Fighters a little less yuck.

EjoThims

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Pythons
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2008, 09:13:46 AM »
Very very similar to Bears... who are arguably better monks...

Hrmm... I hadn't seen that connection before. How would you suggest differentiating them and/or giving Pythons a more monkly feel?

Fuzzy_Logic

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Vipers
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2008, 12:36:44 PM »
Have you read my Tier 2 Bard?  It's very... cluttereed right now.  But if you're wanting to buff Bards, I would recommend at least looking at the ideas therein.  We could even collaborate on a more mid-powered Bard.

Anyway, a Fox is a better Bard in almost every way.  Higher CHA, boosted spell DCs, not being Tiny (which means using weapons is an option), etc, etc. 

In Return the Viper gets to be really sneaky, but auto-grappleable.  He gets a breath weapon which is terrible.  and... that's prettty much it. 

Fuzzy_Logic

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Rats
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2008, 02:59:17 AM »
Rat disease gets a lot of attentionfor something that benefits a PC... never.

Also, not necessarily a criticism, but sizes in this game seem pretty random.  Vipers tiny, rats medium? 

EjoThims

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Rats
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2008, 03:13:42 AM »
Rat disease gets a lot of attentionfor something that benefits a PC... never.

I don't follow. It doesn't have any direct combat benefits, but that doesn't mean it isn't useful.

Also, not necessarily a criticism, but sizes in this game seem pretty random.  Vipers tiny, rats medium? 

Sizes are based off how they appeared when I dreamed of them.

Callix

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Ferrets
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2008, 09:16:58 AM »
With the non-multiclassing XP penalties: do they need to be different base classes, or will different PrCs suffice? (Abj 3/MS 10/Iot7V 7, I'm looking at you.  :grave)

Also, since they can speak, can an animal form (blank) cast spells, or are their paws not good enough for somatic components? Otherwise, Ferret wizard sitting in animal form looks kinda good. Especially with Master Specialist coming in when it does.
I know gameology-fu.

EjoThims

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Ferrets
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2008, 01:56:46 PM »
With the non-multiclassing XP penalties: do they need to be different base classes, or will different PrCs suffice? (Abj 3/MS 10/Iot7V 7, I'm looking at you.  :grave)

PrCs will suffice, though I should have specified, since PrCs don't count against you for standard penalties. That will be updated.

Also, since they can speak, can an animal form (blank) cast spells, or are their paws not good enough for somatic components? Otherwise, Ferret wizard sitting in animal form looks kinda good. Especially with Master Specialist coming in when it does.

You would have to take the Surrogate Spellcasting feat from SS to cast spells in an Animal form, since even though they can speak, since you need some kind of special ability to cast spells without at least one free hand.

Been thinking about going back and specifying that too, just to make it more clear.

EjoThims

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Re: [3.5] Verold: Vipers
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2008, 02:19:30 PM »
Have you read my Tier 2 Bard?  It's very... cluttereed right now.  But if you're wanting to buff Bards, I would recommend at least looking at the ideas therein.  We could even collaborate on a more mid-powered Bard.

Cluttered sounds about right, lol. I'm actually going to be posting a Bard and Variants like I did with Fighters and all, though I know it's gonna need lots of work. Give that a gander.

Anyway, a Fox is a better Bard in almost every way.  Higher CHA, boosted spell DCs, not being Tiny (which means using weapons is an option), etc, etc.



In Return the Viper gets to be really sneaky, but auto-grappleable.  He gets a breath weapon which is terrible.  and... that's prettty much it. 

1-2 Con damage poison every couple of rounds as a ranged touch is terrible?? This is news to me.

What would you suggest for fitting them into Bards better than Foxes?

Callix

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[3.5] Verold: Barbarian and Variants
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2008, 07:15:57 PM »
The Harbinger saves want to be 10 + 1/2 level + Cha, or they'll get really out of hand.

Viper Bard with in-combat Fascinate looks really fun, too. But watch out for that skill-vs-save imbalance.
I know gameology-fu.

EjoThims

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[3.5] Verold: Barbarian and Variants
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2008, 08:08:57 PM »
The Harbinger saves want to be 10 + 1/2 level + Cha, or they'll get really out of hand.

Hrm, good point.

Viper Bard with in-combat Fascinate looks really fun, too. But watch out for that skill-vs-save imbalance.

Maybe I should specify that it requires line of sight as well, since the buff dances from their racial do. Make it a little easier to break it then?

EjoThims

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Re: [3.5]Psychic Archer
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2008, 08:32:09 PM »
Based on some feedback, I'm wanting to add a small list of invocation style utility psi-like abilities to this class.

I'd want their power level to cap at 'Greater' and be restricted to utility/mobility/self-buffs, since the class already has plenty of blasting and BFC potential.

Any suggestions on a progression or list of invocations?

So far I think I'm going to do (essentially) Beguiling Influence, Dark One's Own Luck, Darkness, Leaps and Bounds, Spiderwalk, Fel Flight, Flee the Scene, and Voidsense.

But that doesn't include any custom ones, nor any Greaters.