Rules Discussions

[AndyJames]

Personally, any race which has a favoured class of a melee class should not have a Con penalty (Crane, I am looking at you). That is like yelling "gimp!!!!" and then kicking the guy in the nads while laughing hysterically.

[EjoThims]

Or average? Since that's what's already calculated for you in the PHB...

Good point. Average it is.

Otherwise you should create class progressions for wolves, a la Savage Species

Also, Ejo, I noticed something: Tigers have an ability that lets them halve the penalty to move silently for accelerated movement.  Why only half?  Why not just nix it?  It's only a -5 penalty, unless you changed it for some reason.

Because running or charging is also accelerated movement and carries a -20 penalty, or a -10 if you're a Tiger. 

EDIT: Also, I'd up the power of the hybrid feats.  Or the hybrid form itself.  Taking 4 feats to get full hybrid access is not a good thing.  Hybrid Strength especially, since it's only a small boost to the FH, and doubling a ton of time in it means almost nothing.  Right now with Hybrid Recovery you have FH 1, assume hybrid for 18 minutes a day with a +0 base con modifier.  Heck, with a negative con modifier (say, -2) you still have multiple minutes a day for hybrid form, when battles take what, one minute at most?  And even 6 battles a day is a lot, and you won't run out.  So what Hybrid Strength does is grant you +4 to your FH at level 20, and double the amount of time (double from more than enough) you can spend in hybrid form.  Not worth it.  If it let you assume hybrid form as a swift action then it might just be worth it for a feat starved person.  Which brings me to my next point: hybrid forms suck.  They're too powerful to let off the hook with just one feat or even two, and too weak to require three whole feats to get or even two.  I mean, characters are feat starved enough as it is (only seven feats in the career pre-epic without bonus feats).  Also, the wolf isn't worth a +1 LA when all these others are +0.  LA hurts badly.  Give wolves better hybrid form stats, or better yet: increase the stats to one +4, and three +2s.  Or one +4 and two +2s, and give the hybrid form a small boost.  +2 to the main stat or something.

The initial 2 hybrid feats do grant other benefits, including FH in animal forms. Also, the benefits of staying hybrid form for longer is the ability to use it when not in combat.

The Hybrid feats are intentionally costly because they're meant to be taken only by those who will make having a Hybrid form a focus for their character, whether because of the Hybrid Master PrC, wanting to utilize a special ability, or simply for stat boosts/fast healing, it's supposed to represent a large investment to the character.

It shouldn't be so attractive that every character that it could benefit tries to squeeze it in, but it may still be not beneficial enough, I'll look at it again, especially for Wolves.

[EjoThims]

Personally, any race which has a favoured class of a melee class should not have a Con penalty (Crane, I am looking at you). That is like yelling "gimp!!!!" and then kicking the guy in the nads while laughing hysterically.

They're Leadership for free with Paladin sub-levels will have to make up for it.

[Smudgy]

Lingering Spell: Starting at 1st level, a Raven Wizard adds his Int bonus to the duration of all spells cast, even those spells that are normally limited to only concentration for their duration. This ability causes the Raven to treat his Wizard level as one level lower for all purposes relating to his familiar, delaying his ability to acquire one until 2nd level.

Question about this. Does the intelligence bonus add to the duration of spells in rounds for everything or just those measured in rounds? Would spells like Mage Armor have their duration increases by one hour per Int bonus, or just by rounds?

[dman11235]

Scrap QP.  I thought you did, I don't know why you didn't.  It doesn't really fit well as an ability.  And you already have a level 15 good ability: perfect flight with a speed of your ground speed.

As for being an extension of Abundant Step: having the etherealness come at level 19 keeps the progression and fills a previously dead level.  Well, except for the Empty Body which this will replace/improve.  I'll probably think of a better version of Empty Body later.  As of now it's...not very useful.  You can become immune to damage (well, even then you're still hurt by force effects), move with perfect flight (you already can), be invisible (low level spell makes this obsolete), and all the while make yourself fairly useless.  Maybe a couple circumstances where you need to escape to save the party from a cell that is totally blocked in.  And even then: Dimensional Anchor.  I'm thinking maybe a version of superior invisibility.  Or greater invis.  Activateable as a swift action.  I prefer superior for this, btw, since a level...2? spell counters greater invisibility.  Usable for either 2 rounds/level, 1 round/level+wis, 1 minute/level, or something else.  Probably 1 min/level.  A way to become undetectable is much more correct flavor wise IMO.  Going on to another parallel plane?  Where did that even come from?  Avoiding detection is at least potentially martial.

The thing about those small boosts: they're small.  They don't really DO much.  Especially Tongue of the Sun and the Moon (level, what, 2 spell? 3?  It's a low level spell: Tongues).  Timeless Body at least lets you get a free +3 int, wis, cha.  If your DM allows you to advance in age.  But honestly, how many times has your character even grown by a year in game?  Half a year even.  That's why they need something at that level to be used as a boost.  Something actually good.  Not sure what needs to be there though.

[dman11235]

The first hybrid feat (the animal one...) gives you absolutely nothing: its benefits are human form only, and you'll be fighting in animal/hybrid form whenever you get the chance.

I do agree that it shouldn't be so attractive every character takes it, but it needs to be worth the over 50% of your feats investment.  Right now it's far from it.  50% exactly if you have a flaw feat.

Another thing on those feats: the last three are all level 5 prereqs.  8 ranks in a useful skill, or 6 ranks in a different skill.  And all being takeable at the same level is not necessary: you only get one feat at that level.  Also: you don't gain a feat at level 5, so it's just the same as a prereq of 9 ranks.

Finally, the time you get is based on a stat added to you level.  Multiple times.  By the time you can take it, you'll have 8x(con+9) minutes.  Even with a con of 10 or 11, that's plenty of time.  That's 72 minutes, or an insane 720 rounds.  Combat, assuming the 4/day model, will take up about 20 of those rounds.  And there is no sense in assuming you'll only have 10-11 con as a primary melee character (why else would you take these feats?  Not to mention that no-one should dump con except future undead), so you're likely going to have 88 minutes at the time you get it (+2 con at level 9 is pretty reasonable).  Now, before you go on again about hybrid OoC: why?  Why would you need it?  Animal form should be good enough (if you need to heal, the second feat in the chain grants FH, and it gives stat boosts just under hybrid so that's out of it, and if you for some reason needed the boost from hybrid: take a minute in hybrid form.  You have plenty of them) so why?  That's the other thing: 200 minutes isn't all day long, it's just over 3 hours.  That's with the second feat.  Allowing all day hybrid form would be better, but even on top of that I'd make it a swift action to change with that fourth feat.  Remember: 50% of your feats are going to this.  It needs to be worth it.  With that feat investment you're not going to be a battlefield control character without fighter levels (no feats for it), you're not going to be a very focused anything, since over half of your feats are going to assuming hybrid form.

[EjoThims]

Question about this. Does the intelligence bonus add to the duration of spells in rounds for everything or just those measured in rounds? Would spells like Mage Armor have their duration increases by one hour per Int bonus, or just by rounds?

Int bonus is measured the same as the standard duration.

So if it's normally in rounds, it's in round. If it's normally in minutes, it's in minutes, etc.

Also, since things are calculated in the most beneficial order, bonus is added before Extend, but after Persistent.

[EjoThims]

Scrap QP.  I thought you did, I don't know why you didn't.

Because it's so bad that it still being there has no bearing on the changes... I want to do something with it eventually, but I don't know what.

As for being an extension of Abundant Step: having the etherealness come at level 19 keeps the progression

You're right. Apparently I can't math.

The thing about those small boosts: they're small. 

But flavorful. 

Though it is a dead level except for them and a +10 speed boost. I may toss something else in there when I update things.

[EjoThims]

The first hybrid feat (the animal one...) gives you absolutely nothing: its benefits are human form only, and you'll be fighting in animal/hybrid form whenever you get the chance.

Just a note, casters can't cast in Animal Form without a feat.

I went ahead and merged the first two feats though, so it now only takes 2 to gain Hybrid form, and 3 to gain the increased uses and the fast healing (up every four instead of five). If you think the Fast Heal and uses aren't that important, then skip them. 

[dman11235]

Yeah, I know.  Hybrid form as of now is actually quite bad for casters compared to non-casters.  I actually never expected a caster to take the feats to gain access to hybrid form.

If you kept the durations, then I'm not sure that last feat is worth the investment.  FH 6 at level 20 is still going to only be OoC healing.  And FH 1 will be able to cover you well enough.  Should be able to anyway.

An idea would be to give it upon entry to the Hybrid Master PrC.  Then anyone who is going to use hybrid form will likely get it anyway (since why wouldn't you take that PrC?) and since it comes with other things it's not a waste.

[EjoThims]

An idea would be to give it upon entry to the Hybrid Master PrC.  Then anyone who is going to use hybrid form will likely get it anyway (since why wouldn't you take that PrC?) and since it comes with other things it's not a waste.

If you're taking Hybrid Master, taking the last feat will net you +8 regeneration.

[EjoThims]

Updated for ya Dman.

[AndyJames]

So, a Large character with a whip threatens everything within 30 ft and a Huge character everything within 45ft?

That is like the new spiked chain, except tastier (you can TWF with it). Of course, the damage is on the level of suck, but great for BC.

[AfterCrescent]

All I see is A) Standard action, hit everyone with a sonic attack.
B) Someone fails that save (likely) which means they're stunned.

So yeah, BFC and then BAM! Stunned. No turns for you, sir.

[AndyJames]

All I see is A) Standard action, hit everyone with a sonic attack.
B) Someone fails that save (likely) which means they're stunned.

So yeah, BFC and then BAM! Stunned. No turns for you, sir.

The base damage is only 1d3 for Medium, but the strength. The strength!!!

So, it would be the save from hell.

[EjoThims]

The base damage is only 1d3 for Medium, but the strength. The strength!!!

So, it would be the save from hell.

Works with any weapon that specifies whip specific feats work with that weapon, and most of them have 1d6 base damage.

All I see is A) Standard action, hit everyone with a sonic attack.
B) Someone fails that save (likely) which means they're stunned.

So yeah, BFC and then BAM! Stunned. No turns for you, sir.

Hrm, I'll have to limit the stunning somehow. 1/rnd would work, but I kind of like the ability to AoE stun, provided it can't be done continuously.

So, a Large character with a whip threatens everything within 30 ft and a Huge character everything within 45ft?

Large character with a whip has 10' base each, x2 for 20' with whip (as a reach weapon), +5' for 25' with Snap Lash.

Huge character has 15', x2 for 30', +5' for 35'.

M has 15' (from whip property), +5' for 20'.

That is like the new spiked chain, except tastier

As it should be when you spend a feat and 5 levels on it. Or even just the 2 for the extra reach.



Clarifications/fluff and better balance overhaul coming when I'm not exhausted. I'm just tired of sitting on these so I'm pulling them straight from my notes, no reviews, no fluff, nothin'.

[AfterCrescent]

WTF is improved mountain stance?

[EjoThims]

WTF is improved mountain stance?

I told you I can't decipher my own notes.

[AndyJames]

Ejo, reach is a multiple of your normal reach (because reach weapons default to double your normal reach). The whip has a x3 multiplier.

It is not an addition.

[EjoThims]

Ejo, reach is a multiple of your normal reach.

Normally, yes.

The whip has a x3 multiplier.

Wrong. Unless there's been errata or changes in RC that I missed, reach weapon is double reach by default.

Whip is 15' or reach weapon, whichever is greater. This is why L monsters using a whip are listed with a 20' reach.  The ability adds +5' to your whip's reach, though, not your own.