Author Topic: An idea... related to fixing Diplomacy...  (Read 2633 times)

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Prime32

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An idea... related to fixing Diplomacy...
« on: August 17, 2008, 07:02:43 PM »
I don't have much right now, but I was thinking of assigning NPCs a set of personality values:

Greed (Cha)
Pride/Humility (Cha)
Zeal (Cha)
Cynicism (Int)
Paranoia (Wis)

(The list is not final)


The system is similar to Rich Burlew's Diplomacy fix, but when you make a Diplomacy check, it is opposed by a personality check, depending on what you are trying to get from the NPC. For instance, if you are trying to convince a miser to give you an item, you make a Diplomacy check opposed by his Greed check. If you are trying to stop an enemy from attacking you, make a Bluff or Diplomacy check opposed by their Zeal check.

It is harder to Bluff a cynical character, and harder to Diplomance a paranoid character.

You can make a Bluff check opposed by the character's Humility check to flatter them and gain a bonus on future checks.


The formula for a personality check is (1d20 + character level + personality score + relevant ability modifier). An NPC gains a number of points to assign to various aspects of their personality equal to their Charisma score - certain abilities may grant extra points or modify attributes directly (a character with Vow of Poverty, for instance, gains a bonus to their Humility score). For every point spent on Humility, Pride drops one point and vice versa.

The Sense Motive skill can be used to analyse an NPC's personality and figure out which attributes have the highest and lowest number of points.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 05:55:05 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Psychic Robot

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Re: An idea... related to fixing Diplomacy...
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2008, 04:49:24 AM »
Erm...this is a little complex, and I don't think it really needs mechanics.  If the DM is playing the NPC appropriately, then a cowardly character will be easy to intimidate while a greedy character will be easy to bribe.

Midnight_v

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Re: An idea... related to fixing Diplomacy...
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2008, 06:36:26 AM »
Erm...this is a little complex, and I don't think it really needs mechanics.  If the DM is playing the NPC appropriately, then a cowardly character will be easy to intimidate while a greedy character will be easy to bribe.
Everything needs mechanics, mostly to reference if you think the guy dm'ing is suddenly boning you, for whatever reason.

...and assuming you are "THE" Psychic Robot (of fame and infamy). Welcome, I was wondering when you'd show up.
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Psychic Robot

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Re: An idea... related to fixing Diplomacy...
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2008, 03:10:03 PM »
Quote
if you think the guy dm'ing is suddenly boning you, for whatever reason.
Heh, I suppose.

And yes, I am the Psychic Robot.  Apparently, more people read the Concerns and Criticisms forum that I knew.

Melblen_Cairn

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Re: An idea... related to fixing Diplomacy...
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 10:18:14 AM »
"I can't negotiate with a sword, I need a blaster."  ;)

My players rarely if ever take diplomacy, so when the situation arises that some diplomacy is required to advance the story I just have to use my discretion in adjudicating how the npc's react to the PCs based on how they are rp'ing.

This sems like a pretty good fix for it though.

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Talisman

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Re: An idea... related to fixing Diplomacy...
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2008, 01:51:40 AM »
Everything needs mechanics, mostly to reference if you think the guy dm'ing is suddenly boning you, for whatever reason.

I disagree with this statement. The D&D rules leave a huge amount of stuff at the discretion of the GM, which is as it should be. IMIO, the stuff you refer to can be covered by the GM's best friend, the Floating +/-2. (Not to say Diplomacy isn't broken as-is...because it is).

As for the GM "boning you"...a little GM/player trust is a marvelous thing. And sometimes the GM just has to say "No matter how smooth you are, this guy hates you."
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Sunic_Flames

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Re: An idea... related to fixing Diplomacy...
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2008, 01:27:52 PM »
Well for starters, +2/-2 doesn't mean that much.
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[/spoiler]

Prime32

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Re: An idea... related to fixing Diplomacy...
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2008, 03:15:04 PM »
So, what personality values do you think there should be? Should they affect or be affected by other stats? (eg. Zeal and Will saves)
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Sunic_Flames

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Re: An idea... related to fixing Diplomacy...
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2008, 03:53:10 PM »
I dunno. Trying to apply mechanics to roleplay tends to fail horribly because while optimization and roleplay certainly aren't exclusive, mechanics and Magical Tea Party are. Which is why Diplomacy fails so badly, and Skill Challenges are worse.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Brainpiercing

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Re: An idea... related to fixing Diplomacy...
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2008, 11:41:53 AM »
There IS a very simple fix: Play Diplomacy like for a PC for every important NPC. Let players use the fixed Diplomacy chart only vs. people without a personality, like unimportant NPCs.

You'll never be able to diplomise the fellow PC to be your fanatic follower, so this should not work on NPCs - unless they are too unimportant to care.