Author Topic: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action  (Read 143974 times)

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Heliomance

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #380 on: January 29, 2011, 12:21:14 AM »
Having read the wording on Speed, I don't see any ambiguities in the wording. Is it stinky cheese? Absolutely. But then, so is the rest of this build!

JaronK

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #381 on: January 29, 2011, 08:31:34 AM »
Note the Planar Touchstone thing does say it gives two attacks if your BAB is high enough for two attacks, so it does seem to give one attack for every attack you would otherwise have.

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #382 on: January 29, 2011, 09:11:31 AM »
Note the Planar Touchstone thing does say it gives two attacks if your BAB is high enough for two attacks, so it does seem to give one attack for every attack you would otherwise have.

JaronK

The sentence uses "additional attacks" to refer to every iterative attack after a full attack.
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This means that if you are of a high enough level to make additional attacks
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EjoThims

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #383 on: January 29, 2011, 09:25:46 PM »
Having read the wording on Speed, I don't see any ambiguities in the wording. Is it stinky cheese? Absolutely. But then, so is the rest of this build!

Problem is that we first need to verify that Speed would even stack with Triple Strike, since it explicitly does not with Haste, and Triple Strike also explicitly does not stack with Haste. That requires digging up Triple Strike's text again.

Then we would have to justify Speed stacking itself, which is something that was beaten to death years ago and consensus reached against it, even in TO, since it is indeed so clear that the intent is different than the implementation (and arguably it's not even RaW; it explicitly doesn't stack with Haste and the benefits of the Speed enchantment could be argued to be a specific benefit from the Haste spell, since it is the Haste spell which is used to create it). Also, I had thought there was a Sage or CustServ ruling on it at some point that finally killed it?

zook1shoe

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #384 on: April 12, 2011, 12:21:57 AM »
I was able to get 25k attacks from a ECL ~4

EjoThims

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #385 on: April 12, 2011, 11:03:20 PM »
I was able to get 25k attacks from a ECL ~4

Oh really?

Build or it didn't happen.  :p

zook1shoe

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #386 on: April 13, 2011, 04:37:35 AM »
I will work on it, I don't think its going to be that high the Shadow template got reprinted.

Can I use Dragon and Dungeon magazine templates?

zook1shoe

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #387 on: April 13, 2011, 05:38:36 PM »
without any Dragon/Dungeon or other third party material....

a Symbiotic Alternate Kobold / Petitioner Half-Illithid Mob 48 of Four-headed Tauric Chimeric Squid / Anthropomorphic Mob of 48 Woodling Squid

is a ECL 3 or 4, depending on how you read the Symbiotic template, that has 1 bite attack, 2 claw attacks, 2400 face tentacles, and 1 mob attack.

EjoThims

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #388 on: April 13, 2011, 09:49:22 PM »
without any Dragon/Dungeon or other third party material....

a Symbiotic Alternate Kobold / Petitioner Half-Illithid Mob 48 of Four-headed Tauric Chimeric Squid / Anthropomorphic Mob of 48 Woodling Squid

is a ECL 3 or 4, depending on how you read the Symbiotic template, that has 1 bite attack, 2 claw attacks, 2400 face tentacles, and 1 mob attack.

I'm having trouble following the template application of your stub. Are you making a anthropomorphic mob of 48 woodling squids? How are you treating the mob as a whole as as one singular creature for the purpose of templates and class levels?

As well, if it's giving up it's normal attack routines for mob attack, how does it still have multiple face tentacle attacks? You'll need far more than a stub to claim something like this works.

Also, refresh my memory on the source of the mob template please? And which alternate kobold are you using?

zook1shoe

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #389 on: April 13, 2011, 10:06:30 PM »
page 59 is the mob.

the alternate kobold is the web enhancement one that gets attacks.

i don't care about losing the attacks, i care about how many heads are there so that the half-illithid template gets INSANE

Garryl

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #390 on: April 13, 2011, 10:32:07 PM »
without any Dragon/Dungeon or other third party material....

a Symbiotic Alternate Kobold / Petitioner Half-Illithid Mob 48 of Four-headed Tauric Chimeric Squid / Anthropomorphic Mob of 48 Woodling Squid

is a ECL 3 or 4, depending on how you read the Symbiotic template, that has 1 bite attack, 2 claw attacks, 2400 face tentacles, and 1 mob attack.



Symbiotic
{
   (Alternate Kobold)
   (Petitioner
      Half-Illithid
         Mob of 48
            Four-headed
               Tauric
               {
                  (Chimeric
                     Squid)
                  (Anthropmorphic
                     Mob of 48
                        Woodling
                           Squid)
               }
   )
}


Did I get that right? Brackets indicate each of a distinct creature combined through a template, and braces indicate a template combining creatures.
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zook1shoe

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #391 on: April 13, 2011, 11:44:19 PM »
yup.

actually i had originally forgotten that the Mob template got rid of most attacks, so i had a bunch more templates added, but realized that. so, along with the Half-Illithid template, i could throw a bunch more templates, like 40 half-dragons and stuff ;)

this sort of thing with templates was the key when i made my original hulking hurlers back in the WotC boards days.

EjoThims

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #392 on: April 15, 2011, 03:37:02 AM »
page 59 is the mob.

page 59 of what?

i don't care about losing the attacks, i care about how many heads are there so that the half-illithid template gets INSANE

And how are those individual attacks being used if the Mob creature loses it's normal attacks to gain the mob attack?

And there's a few issues with your template order. How is the mob as a whole eligible for the anthropomorphic template? And how is it a base for tauric? Or for taking class levels?

zook1shoe

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #393 on: April 15, 2011, 04:29:33 AM »
page 59 is the mob.

page 59 of what?

Sorry page 59 of the DMG2

i don't care about losing the attacks, i care about how many heads are there so that the half-illithid template gets INSANE

And how are those individual attacks being used if the Mob creature loses it's normal attacks to gain the mob attack?

The mob is made of 48 Small or Medium creatures and they lose their previous attacks. But they still have 48 heads and 480 tentacles.

And there's a few issues with your template order. How is the mob as a whole eligible for the anthropomorphic template? And how is it a base for tauric? Or for taking class levels?

So a mob of animals is eligible for the Anthropomorphic template, since the base creature must be an animal, which a mob of squid is.

So the Anthropomorphic Mob of Squid is the "torso" of the Tauric template, losing two tentacles as legs.

The Chimeric Squid is the "lower body" of the Tauric template, losing its squid head.

Add the Mob template to this thing with 50 heads and 498 tentacles (which it can't use to attack anymore).

Which gives you 48x those in semiuseless body parts and 30 HD.

Add the Half-Illithid, Half-Dragonflesh Golem, and Petitioner templates, and suddenly the useless body parts gives 4x tentacles per 48x50 head and a claw attack per 48x498 tentacles, that it can now use, and only 2 HD.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 04:32:20 AM by zook1shoe »

EjoThims

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #394 on: April 16, 2011, 03:14:47 AM »
page 59 is the mob.

page 59 of what?

Sorry page 59 of the DMG2

Sadly mine seems to be missing ATM. Could you PM the full text, as what it seems you are trying to do is based on what would have to be intensely strict RAW reading of a template that would have to be worded with a terrible stupidity and lack of foresight, far more so than most WotC products.

Firstly, it would require that the attacks are lost only on template application, not overall as an ability. Secondly it would require that the template causes the mob to be treated as a single creature for all mechanical purposes, not a limited list. Thirdly it would require the mob to not ever be able to gain more HD, as the multi-headed template adds HD per head. Fourth it requires being able to create a mob of mobs. Fifth, it would require mob being an inherited template, as if it is acquired your template order does not work.

And on top of all that, I can't fathom where you got that idea that any of those templates adds an independent claw attack per limb, including tentacles.

zook1shoe

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #395 on: April 16, 2011, 03:55:19 AM »
Sadly mine seems to be missing ATM. Could you PM the full text, as what it seems you are trying to do is based on what would have to be intensely strict RAW reading of a template that would have to be worded with a terrible stupidity and lack of foresight, far more so than most WotC products.

I believe its in the Cityscape book near pg 160, if you don't have that one either. I suppose I could in the morning :P

Firstly, it would require that the attacks are lost only on template application, not overall as an ability. Secondly it would require that the template causes the mob to be treated as a single creature for all mechanical purposes, not a limited list. Thirdly it would require the mob to not ever be able to gain more HD, as the multi-headed template adds HD per head. Fourth it requires being able to create a mob of mobs. Fifth, it would require mob being an inherited template, as if it is acquired your template order does not work.

I'm not sure at the exact wording ATM, since I'm on my phone not computer.

And on top of all that, I can't fathom where you got that idea that any of those templates adds an independent claw attack per limb, including tentacles.

The only ones I've seen are the Half-Dragonflesh Golem and Half-Stained Glass Golem of the MM2 web enhancement. And the Pseudonatural template in the Epic Level Handbook (with exchanges your natural attacks for tentacle makes in you alternate form?)

Bauglir

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #396 on: April 17, 2011, 04:18:22 AM »
Sounds like the same principle as making a Were-Murder of Crows. Technically, it's a single creature (even if it's made up of multiple organisms and can break apart into separate creatures), and it meets the prerequisites for the templates. At least, I'm assuming that's the case, too tired to look it up right now, but assuming the template just has type requirements (like most templates), this works in a twisted sort of way. This is the right board for that, anyway.
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zook1shoe

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #397 on: April 17, 2011, 04:35:43 AM »
Exactly!

Garryl

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #398 on: April 17, 2011, 04:42:25 AM »
Half-Illithid (from Fiend Folio) simply requires any humanoid other than a human. It may have been reprinted in Lords of Madness, though.
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CrimsonDeath

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Re: 1,067,212 attacks in a single action
« Reply #399 on: April 24, 2011, 06:01:03 AM »
"Mob" is indeed an acquired template, so I don't think that winds up working.

I do like that wereswarm idea though, and I have the perfect reason to use it.