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Author Topic: The "ultimate" class...  (Read 4521 times)

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Prime32

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The "ultimate" class...
« on: August 10, 2008, 07:36:26 PM »
So, if there was a class with d12 HD, full BAB, all good saves, skills as an expert, but no class features...

Should it exist?
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Ubernoob

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2008, 07:48:39 PM »
No.
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AndyJames

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2008, 07:58:50 PM »
Maybe as an NPC class... :D
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DaveoftheRave

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2008, 10:35:28 PM »
Quote
So, if there was a class with d12 HD, full BAB, all good saves, skills as an expert, but no class features...

Well as far as power compare it to a Barbarian.

You're getting good reflex, good will, 2+ skps/level and a much better skill list for all the class features of the Barbarian.

Not as good and pretty bland.

I could see it being useful as an NPC class, though what is the rationale behind it?  Who is going to be an expert but yet with the toughness and combat ability of a Barbarian?
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CountArioch

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2008, 12:13:03 AM »
Almost by not quite a PC class. 
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Hazren

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2008, 03:16:25 AM »
Quote from: Prime32 on August 10, 2008, 07:36:26 PM
So, if there was a class with d12 HD, full BAB, all good saves, skills as an expert, but no class features...

Should it exist?

Positive:
d12HD
Full BAB
Expert skills
all good saves

Negative:
No class Features


Give it two more negatives and it might be playable. :)
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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2008, 03:30:11 AM »
It sounds almost (almost) on par with a Fighter.

Actually it might be... take the Fighter and replace feats with Improved Toughness, a stacking kind of Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes, and that feat that gives extra skill points. It feels like that's more feats than a fighter gets, but they are much much weaker. But of course giving up that flexibility costs an awful lot.

So not as good as a Fighter.
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JaronK

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2008, 03:54:52 AM »
Getting Diplomacy, Iajuitsu Focus, and UMD as class skills is nice at least.  Honestly, it's a reasonable skill monkey, though certainly not impressive.

JaronK
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Stratovarius

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2008, 12:07:23 PM »
It might be a feasible class to play, but it's probably on the lowest level of classes and not all that interesting. I just can't see a no-features class being appealing.
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Runestar

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2008, 12:09:29 PM »
Isn't that just dragon HD?

Might consider taking 1-2 lvs for the good saves and extra skill points, but yeah, you won't see me filling it out.
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Stratovarius

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2008, 12:18:27 PM »
Well, sort of. But dragons come with the rest of the dragon stuff. If this was a full dragon, I'd be quite interested, but without that, not really all that exciting.
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Prime32

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2008, 03:40:47 PM »
What if this class got bonus feats, with no restrictions?
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

fil kearney

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2008, 04:04:55 PM »
Depends on the frequency, really... if it's every other level.. the fighter is now obsolete.

every 3rd level.. kinda redundant with those already alotted, but one at 1st and then every 4th... maybe.  Depends on what you would take other than fighter feats?
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CountArioch

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2008, 04:07:18 PM »
The fighter has always been obsolete.  The fighter class is exactly two levels long.
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fil kearney

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2008, 04:27:23 PM »
Quote from: CountArioch on August 11, 2008, 04:07:18 PM
The fighter has always been obsolete.  The fighter class is exactly two levels long.

True, Count.  I was brainfarting.

but if they were truly "any feat you qualify for", effectively replacing the fighter... that MIGHT be worth sticking around longer than just 2 levels.. could pick up full legacy weapon advancement at no effort, grab some binding, incarnum, racial feats, plus 3rd party material I've bought could abuse the hells out of this idea. 

May be worth staying for a bit longer... odd levels are still dead, though.. you'd need to pick up something every even level like legacy stuff to make it fun to play a bit longer till the next feat.
Warforged VoP with item familiar legacy Battlefist, incarnum, and binder?
might work. I'll throw one in my game to see... won't be for a few months or so, though.
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PhoenixInferno

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2008, 05:16:07 PM »
Wasn't it called the Lightning Warrior? :)
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Prime32

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2008, 05:18:09 PM »
Quote from: PhoenixInferno on August 11, 2008, 05:16:07 PM
Wasn't it called the Lightning Warrior? :)
:pout No, the lightning warrior also had d20HD, Full spellcasting and two-weapon fighting feats.


(We need a thread for the lightning warrior, btw. It was classic. :D)
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« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 05:28:19 PM by Prime32 »
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

katans

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2008, 06:24:27 PM »
Ooooh, the Lightning Warrior, and the priceless comments:

Quote
A wizard can in fact be thought of the custodian to a familiar, a terrifying beast that charges its foes, slashing them to shreds while delivering their master's touch spells and bestowing upon their masters incredible bonuses to their hp or skill checks. A wizard is nearly powerless without one.

Imagining the toad familiar charging in battle at this moment.... ROFL

Anyway, back to the question, such a class is acceptable because it's terribly boring. Without spells or class features it's just... bland. Start adding feats and it outshines traditional melee classes (yeah, big deal...). Give it 9th level spellcasting and, oh, dunno, the ability to use Greater Dispel Magic on attacks of opportunity, and you have an abomination that should be squished by Pun-Pun in person before ever reaching second level.
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DaveoftheRave

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2008, 06:33:37 PM »
Quote
(We need a thread for the lightning warrior, btw. It was classic. )

Well in the house rules forum we have the Runic Knight and Barrist Trickster which would qualify.
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Stratovarius

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Re: The "ultimate" class...
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2008, 06:40:47 PM »
Especially the Runic Knight. Although I'll miss the d20 hit dice.
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