Author Topic: Nature of Shadow Clones...  (Read 4388 times)

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Omen of Peace

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Re: Nature of Shadow Clones...
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2008, 07:44:39 PM »
I will try to have a good reason.Right know we are on the verge of causing  the return of evil dragons to the world, which will in all likely hood be followed by a Dragon / Githyanki  war, staged on the material plane.Oops.
 So, an army of Shadow Clone true neutral necromantic clerics is the the obvious response, right?Seriously,my tribe is small, usually only growing by adopting foundlings. We will need a lot of high powered defenders, and what better way to get them than this?
 Ok, if I could control them, that would be more powerful.But my beliefs preclude enslaving anything of more than 2 Intelligence.Im very strict about this,and as a side effect, True Neutral.
Loosing an army of necromancers on the world doesn't seem like a very neutral act - even if the necromancers are neutral.
Oh, and watch them change alignment too... Soon you'd have more personal problems than a Dragon-Githyanki war.

The Cyst spells wouldn't have helped that much - again, anything you can do they can do too...
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson

Vattic

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Re: Nature of Shadow Clones...
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2008, 08:40:49 PM »
from my understanding, if you turn into a fiend and then use shades to create a clone, the clone would then be a clone of the fiend you were currently morphed into, correct? so in this case: a blood bag imp that could change form to appear as a medium creature.

when fiend form ends on the primary caster, he reverts to his original form, but the clone is still an imp, right? if this is all true, then why would the imp have the spellcasting abilities and items of the original caster? basically, would the fiend clone have your class levels, or would it just be a fiend with it's own abilities and nothing more?

i keep rereading the spell descriptions because this sounds like an awesome tactic but i can't find any wording that indicates the clones would possess the spells and items of the caster. maybe one of you guys can point it out to me?  ???

EDIT:
ok, so i reread alter self. it says, among other things, that:

"You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components."

i'm guessing that this the rationale for why the clones would possess the class levels/spellcasting of the primary spellcaster? if so, it seems like a decent argument, but one that i think few DMs would accept for balance reasons. you're effectively raising your ECL temporarily, then cloning yourself which produces a permanent clone that is way more powerful than yourself. and it's easily repeatable, leading to some really crazy situations.

if your DM allows it, then that's awesome and you should abuse it to the hilt, because the spell descriptions seem to back up your interpretation, but i don't know too many guys that wouldn't ban this particular use right out of the box.

also, i still can't see where this technique would allow you to dupe your items.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 09:07:20 PM by Vattic »

ronyon

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Re: Nature of Shadow Clones...
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2008, 09:14:30 PM »
The Cyst spells wouldn't have helped that much - again, anything you can do they can do too...
He who gains total mental domination first wins.Not allot of ways out of being Necrotic Tumored. Not like a planar bind or geas, both of which encourage the DM to screw you.It can be dispelled, but nothings perfect.Unless the DM is gunning for you, you should be able to boost that CL to the point that nothing short of an Antimagic Field will gank it.Again, nothings perfect.Using Hypnotism to condition them to be fanatically loyal to me, might be just the ticket.

 As far a neutral act, well it is done in defense of my people. I habitually do "evil" acts in the service of good causes.
This is something we approximate to Neutral, though my DM says my strict adherence to my code pushes me toward the lawful axis.I break a lot of eggs, but what fun would things be if they went off without a hitch?
Obviously these are house rules, since D20 has definitive rules about what is Good and Evil.
We think those rules are crap. I am stricter than most paladins I have played along side.Dont even get me started on the "Chaotic Good" types Ive played with.
In the end, I just dont care. Im going to do whatever I see as fitting for my character, and damn the alignment shift.