Author Topic: Kobold melee fighter help  (Read 3376 times)

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bayar

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Kobold melee fighter help
« on: August 07, 2008, 06:51:02 PM »
So, how to make a decend kobold fighter ?

Thinking about a dragonwrought venerable kobold, just so we can get rid of those negatives in mental stats. Putting a score of 18 in STR, dropping to 14 after racial modifiers. DEX and CON...hmm...I'd go with balancing them out somehow...but cant figure out how. putting a 16 in DEX and a 14 in CON and then getting 18 DEX and 12 CON, or putting 16 in CON and 14 in DEX for a 14 CON and 16 DEX...

Kobolds can undergo the draconic rite of passage for a 1st level sorcerer spell that he can cast 1/day at will. Mage armor if you go with the high DEX path, Enlarge person if you just want to deal more damage and dont care about AC, Expeditious retreat if you want to charge foes from the other side of the battlefield, Ghostly tail if you often do Aoo's (this one is so-so...2d6 damage with a touch attack on an AOO is good, requiring an Aoo to use it is not so good...but you still can send casters into oblivion with this  ;) ), True strike if you want to be sure you hit someone (I wont take it though).
Depending if your DM allows flaws, get one flaw for power attack.

Then, for a level 1 class, going with barbarian. Fast movement, rage, a d12 HD and martial weapon proficiency. Grab the quick trait for a speed of 50.

Level 2 and 3 have fighter written on them. Get the kobold fighter ACF for dodge, free Weapon focus on spears and spear-like weapons (are guisarme's enough spear-like to qualify ? ) and the +2 CON to cancel out your penalty.

Now I am stuck...

I could put a high enough CHA there just for lulz so I can dip into sorcerer 1 ACF for free Draconic heritage and to qualify for Greater draconic Rite of passage at level 6, gaining the ability to increase caster level and spells known like a dragon. yeah, it requires a feat, 1 K gold and 3 HP but it is worth it IMO.

Prime32

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2008, 07:06:29 PM »
I reccomend jungle kobolds - no Con penalty, but you can still take that +2 Con ability. :D
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ninjarabbit

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2008, 07:11:53 PM »
A gish could be a good option, you could easily have a build that haves 18 or 19 BAB and still have 8th level spells or so.

bayar

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2008, 07:13:29 PM »
I reccomend jungle kobolds - no Con penalty, but you can still take that +2 Con ability. :D

Yeah, i was thinking about it too. The best stats out there.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2008, 07:42:28 PM »
I prefer the jungle goblins.

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If monkeys were evil and could speak, they'd be a lot like jungle goblins.

The climb speed is nice in some circumstances.
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bayar

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2008, 07:47:01 PM »
A gish could be a good option, you could easily have a build that haves 18 or 19 BAB and still have 8th level spells or so.

After reading the description of the greater draconic rite of passage I realised that it is a one-time increase, not an increase by class levels.

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Benefit: Upon completing this rite, a kobold gains new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known) as if also gaining one level in the sorcerer class. The kobold does not, however, gain any other benefit a sorcerer would have gained (familiar abilities, and so on).

The benefit of this ritual is automatically factored into the 15 minutes that a kobold sorcerer spends concentrating to ready their daily allotment of spells. No kobold can benefit from this rite more than once

Yeah, it would have been awesome if your character leels could be considered as being sorcerer levels for determining the number of spell known/spells per day.


I prefer the jungle goblins.

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If monkeys were evil and could speak, they'd be a lot like jungle goblins.

The climb speed is nice in some circumstances.

yes, but goblins are not kobolds, so they dont WIN as much WIN as kobolds WIN  :P

ninjarabbit

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2008, 08:05:38 PM »
barbarian2/fighter2/sorcerer2/abjurantchampion5/spellsword1/eldritchknight8

19 BAB and 19 CL with the AC's martial arcanist ability, 8th level spells with greater draconic rite of passage

bayar

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2008, 08:10:37 PM »
barbarian2/fighter2/sorcerer2/abjurantchampion5/spellsword1/eldritchknight8

19 BAB and 19 CL with the AC's martial arcanist ability, 8th level spells with greater draconic rite of passage



Have to play that in my next game.

Tshern

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2008, 08:13:31 PM »
barbarian2/fighter2/sorcerer2/abjurantchampion5/spellsword1/eldritchknight8

19 BAB and 19 CL with the AC's martial arcanist ability, 8th level spells with greater draconic rite of passage



Have to play that in my next game.
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AndyJames

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2008, 08:19:16 PM »
I prefer Deser Kobolds myself. -2 Wis instead of -2 Int.

If you are allowed Loredrake cheese, you can do the following:

Dragonwrought Desert Kobold
Wildshape Ranger 1/Lion Totem Barbarian1/Fighter2/sorcerer2/abjurantchampion5/spellsword1/eldritchknight8

Greater Draconic Rite + Loredrake = +3 Sorcerer levels
Pounce
+20ft speed
Rage
Bonus feat
Take the familiar that gives you +Will saves

Have fun.

RobbyPants

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2008, 11:53:21 PM »
I reccomend jungle kobolds - no Con penalty, but you can still take that +2 Con ability. :D
Is dragonborn the template that gives you -2 Dex, +2 Con?  I can't remember if that can be applied to reptilian creatures or not.

If so, you could put it on a jungle kobold to net you -4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int.
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AndyJames

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2008, 12:29:52 AM »
Yes. It is +2 Con, -2 Dex.

bayar

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2008, 06:01:37 AM »
I reccomend jungle kobolds - no Con penalty, but you can still take that +2 Con ability. :D
Is dragonborn the template that gives you -2 Dex, +2 Con?  I can't remember if that can be applied to reptilian creatures or not.

If so, you could put it on a jungle kobold to net you -4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int.

You are already dragon blooded. And taking dragonwrought makes you a real dragon...so it would not work.

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2008, 06:17:13 AM »
You are already dragon blooded. And taking dragonwrought makes you a real dragon...so it would not work.
That's not actually true, although a DM may rule otherwise in his/her game. Mechanically speaking, Dragonborn is a template, and templates can be applied before feats/classes etc. It even specifies that one can become a dragonborn prior to adolescence (which is arguably when you become something with a feat, as children are non-combatants and D&D ignores their stats, if they have any at all).  So a kobold can become a dragonborn, gaining the subtype it already has and losing certain racial qualities (Darkvision, Light sensitivity, etc). It then can take the dragonwrought feat to lose the Humanoid type and dragonblood subtype to gain the dragon type. It would still have the Reptilian and Kobold Subtype (mainly for favored enemy purposes ;)).  At least that's how it works mechanically. Flavor-wise, dragonwroughts are born, so that's not how it happens, but then again, mechanically you can retrain yourself into a dragonwrought. :shrug
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AndyJames

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2008, 06:37:48 AM »
I thought you gain the 1st HD, but lose it when you take up a class? Like how all the 1HD creatures lose their original HD in favour of a class one  ;)

Akalsaris

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2008, 11:13:14 AM »
Yeah...I'm running an all-kobold (ok 4 kobolds and a water orc) arena team, and none of my kobolds are dragonborn, because it was too big of a headache for me to figure out how dragonborn interacted with dragonwrought =P  Then again, they benefit more from a high dex than Con, so it's not even that great a template for my team members.

Another silly way to go about it would be to squeeze in a level of druid early on, and then pack a ton of wands of Aspect of the Wolf (SpC).  Aspect of the Wolf replaces your physical scores entirely for 10 minutes/level with wolf scores, and gives you a free trip on an attack and a bite, but you can't use items.  So you focus on being a tripper/something else with huge mental stats from Dragonwrought.  Would go well with a an unarmed variant swordsage I think.  If you take the two variants in UA, you even pick up Rage, favored enemy, monk AC while unarmored, +20 foot movement (giving you 70 in wolf aspect), and track.

It was something I was considering for my team, though I ended up going with a warlock =P

bayar

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2008, 03:09:53 PM »
I am currently DMing an all kobold campaign , with 10 players, and had to ban the dark template (and the other templates too). Seriosly, I let them abuse Dragonwrought and they think it is still not enough... :wall

bayar

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Re: Kobold melee fighter help
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2008, 06:26:57 PM »
K. Dont have Dragons of Eberron (damn, and I have plenty of Eberron books  :o), but dont want to bring Loredrake to the playing table. My DM already threatened me with a kobold holocaust because I kept abusing stuff.

Still dont know how to go with stats, but going with Desert Kobold would be a good idea. Skills need pumping for PrC qualifications. Plus, most PrC pump Will saves to a decent level (read decent not high).   Stat modifiers so far: -4 STR +2 DEX +3 INT +1 WIS +3 CHA.
Maybe, with point buy 32, get 18 in STR, 14 in DEX, 12 in CON, 9 in INT, 8 in WIS and 14 in CHA ?

Because we are taking a level in Spellsword, we no longer can take the 1st level fighter ACF because we need the medium and heavy armor proficiency to get into Spellsword. So no weapon focus on spears and no dodge. But we have a free fighter bonus feat. 2nd level is fine.



Edit: Will be playing the above build in a PbP game shortly. I had to roll for stats and I got three 16, one 15 and two 11. Best. Stats. EVER.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 07:01:12 PM by bayar »