August Previews: is "1d10+2" so hard?

[highbulp]

August Previews: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4pr/20080807a.

Of note: new Warlock Pact, that sounds like it could be fun. I also think I like the suggestion that there will be new "types" for existing classes as a way of expanding them. The new power looks pretty brutal as well.

New weapons--really? Why do we need different sets of stats to say "this is an ax." I kind of liked that you used to be able to do that all in flavor. It reminds me of Arms and Equipment guide, for in the interesting of making "new" items they made a bunch of unbalanced weapons that didn't really add anything to the game. Also, "Brutal" seems bothersome. Now my probabilities may be off, but isn't "1d12, reroll 1&2" the same as "1d10+2" (equal probability of getting numbers 3-12?). Did 1d10+2 just not fit into their paradigm, that they had to add more rolling and more text in order to get the same result? Not to mention that it is identical to a Greataxe, except that it gets to reroll more damage. Shouldn't it maybe be proficiency +1 instead of +2? Gah...

Bag of Tricks produces minions. I love it!! That's exactly what it should do! Perfect!

Oh, and I like the picture at the bottom, but I've always been a fan of 4e art.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Thedifference between 1d10+2 and 1d10 Brutal 2 is a Large weapon with Vorpal.  See, that makes it 2d6, reroll 1s and 2s, 6s explode.  If you've played 3E Shadowrun, you know how good that is.

[brislove]

or any crit actually. Since your magic weapon dice wouldn't get multiplied.

Also, they want to prevent multiplying static values on crits.

[highbulp]

or any crit actually. Since your magic weapon dice wouldn't get multiplied.

Also, they want to prevent multiplying static values on crits.

But you don't multiple anything on a crit. A crit with 1d12 is 12dmg. A crit with 1d10+2 is... 12dmg.

[brislove]

or any crit actually. Since your magic weapon dice wouldn't get multiplied.

Also, they want to prevent multiplying static values on crits.

But you don't multiple anything on a crit. A crit with 1d12 is 12dmg. A crit with 1d10+2 is... 12dmg.

well you kinda do with a high crit weapon, in that your roll weapon damage extra times. True not exactly multiplying, but close enough. However, you would be multiplying the +2 in order for it to be as good as brutal.

the point stands for powers that are 2[W]. now that power is either 2d12 re-roll 1's and 2's or 2d10+4 or 2d10+2,  because multiplying static numbers is annoying, but then its worse then brutal.

[highbulp]

Ah, I see. I figured that multiplying the static number was a given, thus making it equivalent.

Why is multiplying static numbers annoying? Or is it just that piece that requires them to define things like Brutal (which produces more rolling, and potential problems when combined with weapon resizing rules and stuff, as tsuyo explained)?

[brislove]

it's annoying because of the fact that nothing in the game multiplies anything, it just rolls more dice. Weapon sizing is an issue obviously as well.

It's the variance from the norm, an d thus requires more explanation. WoTC is trying to make things more uniform this time around, have all the basic properties work in the same way.

Brutal is easy to remember "I reroll 1's and 2's, cool." vs. I have 1d12+7, when I use this power it's 2d12+9, or this power is 6d12+17. People having to do those calculations on the fly are one of the major things they changed (power attack for instance).

I'm not saying it's difficult to do the calculations, for us. But I have played/do play with people that would almost never be doing the right amount of damage, I started doing the math in my head and just writing down the right number because whatever my player said was wrong, usually she missed some amount of damage from power attack.

So i guess the real answer is, Yes 1d10+2 is really hard for some people when they start rolling X[W].

[Dharhan]

Now my probabilities may be off, but isn't "1d12, reroll 1&2" the same as "1d10+2" (equal probability of getting numbers 3-12?).

You're partially correct, your probabilities are off - 2dX produces a bell curve, 1dX is a flat line.

[highbulp]

Now my probabilities may be off, but isn't "1d12, reroll 1&2" the same as "1d10+2" (equal probability of getting numbers 3-12?).

You're partially correct, your probabilities are off - 2dX produces a bell curve, 1dX is a flat line.

I didn't say anything about 2dX.

[azbo]

math wise, highbulp is clearly right.  I can also see brisloves point about difficulty and standardizing the rules though the only thing you need to know is only the weapon's basic dmg gets bumped on crits.  At the end of the day anything that makes the math easier for the math challenged seems to make sense.  More rolls is a tad annoying, imagine a dagger where you could have a weird string of luck and roll for a while.  I didn't read the article so maybe that's not relevant.

[Eepop]

[Banor]

yup it's that great, now add vorpal for exploding 6s ....

[ImperiousLeader]

The question becomes, do the vorpal dice also Brutal? IOW, every added die can also be rerolled if it's below 3?

It's funny, 4e has definitely become the game where the weapon wielders are rolling lots of dice, instead of the "d6 per caster level" spellcasters of 3.5.

[highbulp]

Or wait until Arcane Power when we might see "Brutal Implements" or something similar.