Author Topic: ToB + AMF  (Read 6014 times)

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Desca

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ToB + AMF
« on: August 05, 2008, 09:16:38 PM »
Hi MinMaxers!

I would like to know if it is possible to craft a command word item (or if already exists) with an Antimagic Field 1/day (custom item); following the Crafting Guidelines with a Wizard crafting ([CL]11*[SLv]6*1800*1/5).

I have a Warblade player who likes the idea of using AMF in fights, using his Ex Maneuvers and such.

Is it very cheesy or is ok to allow this? In any case, how can a NPC spellcaster can deal with this without using Disjunction?

Thanks in advance  :)

Edit: All books allowed.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 09:22:56 PM by Desca »

Rebel7284

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2008, 09:36:00 PM »
Isn't antimagic torc 1/day item?  Dunno the book though
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Guyr Adamantine

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2008, 09:37:51 PM »
Its not a cheesy tactics, but be wary of not making every fight involving casters a cakewalk.

They should never be. >:)

carnivore

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2008, 11:51:04 PM »
Rebel7284  is correct....

Antimagic Torc(Underdark p73)cost 25,000gp,effect  Antimagic Field, 1/day. Neck slot
to make: CL11, Craft Wondrous Item, spell :Antimagic Field(Abj) ,Create 12,500gp, 1,000 XP


also, but more expensive:

Antimagic Shackles

Desca

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2008, 12:38:18 AM »
Thanks for the reply!!! That should do the trick  :D

Its not a cheesy tactics, but be wary of not making every fight involving casters a cakewalk.

They should never be. >:)
That's my point.

Stone Wall is the first thing coming to my mind, dunno why I didn't think of that before... Prismatic Wall & Wall of Force :pout...

Another non-magical/anti-AMF thing a caster could do?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 12:47:43 AM by Desca »

AfterCrescent

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2008, 12:46:46 AM »
Past level 5, you shouldn't be able to bring an AMF near a caster, as they are most likely to be airborn and out of reach.
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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2008, 12:52:17 AM »
Thanks for the reply!!! That should do the trick  :D

Its not a cheesy tactics, but be wary of not making every fight involving casters a cakewalk.

They should never be. >:)
That's my point.

Stone Wall is the first thing coming to my mind, dunno why I didn't think of that before... Prismatic Wall & Wall of Force :pout...

Another non-magical/anti-AMF thing a caster could do?

Rope Trick+Astral Projection and then kill them? Rope Trick doesn't get canceled out by an AMF unless the AMF is able to affect the rope that is targeted, so fully valid idea.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Desca

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2008, 12:54:00 AM »
Past level 5, you shouldn't be able to bring an AMF near a caster, as they are most likely to be airborn and out of reach.
There are lots of ways of escaping from a non-flyng AMF, I was wondering if there were ways of debuffing/BCing/Blasting/not-being-completely-useless-against him.
I know that it says "ANTI MAGIC" but people here makes kobolds rule and sandwiches use powers :P

Desca

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2008, 01:00:24 AM »
Rope Trick+Astral Projection and then kill them? Rope Trick doesn't get canceled out by an AMF unless the AMF is able to affect the rope that is targeted, so fully valid idea.

Ok, I get the Rope Trick idea, but I don't understand the Astral Projection killing thing

Ubernoob

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2008, 01:02:37 AM »
I always thought warblades took IHS explicitly so they wouldn't have their items supressed in AMFs...
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Hazren

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2008, 01:05:43 AM »
Its not a cheesy tactics, but be wary of not making every fight involving casters a cakewalk.

They should never be. >:)
That's my point.

Stone Wall is the first thing coming to my mind, dunno why I didn't think of that before... Prismatic Wall & Wall of Force :pout...

Another non-magical/anti-AMF thing a caster could do?

Transmute rock to mud drops the down to movement 5 unless they have wings.

If they can't fly then transmute the mud to rock, reflex save to avoid entrapment.

This past weekend the DM hit us with a real bad nasty that spells had no effect on thnaks to anti magic. It took 3 trys but it finaly failed the save. :)

Then summon monster7( take two celestial polar bears or more if you roll high), for the strength needed..........wall of iron spell for 10d6. I want the DM to explain making that reflex save;), repeat as needed. :D
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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2008, 01:09:49 AM »
Rope Trick+Astral Projection and then kill them? Rope Trick doesn't get canceled out by an AMF unless the AMF is able to affect the rope that is targeted, so fully valid idea.

Ok, I get the Rope Trick idea, but I don't understand the Astral Projection killing thing

You shift back to the material plane (as you are on another plane when you are in a Rope Trick) and then nuke them from above with whatever SR: No Instantaneous spells you can pull out of your ass. And a liberal abuse of Scrolls of Wish.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

AfterCrescent

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2008, 01:12:10 AM »
I always thought warblades took IHS explicitly so they wouldn't have their items supressed in AMFs...
They do. :P

Also, for non-fliers, there are pleny of conjuration spells that can be used in an AMF, Orb of X, for example.
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Desca

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2008, 01:18:47 AM »
I always thought warblades took IHS explicitly so they wouldn't have their items supressed in AMFs...
I limited the use of IHS. I don't think that because the Warblade is "affected" by the sun rays, he can "End" the Sun. I know CustServ said that supressing an AMF was possible but...  ??? The player itself thought we should modify it.

Transmute rock to mud drops the down to movement 5 unless they have wings.

If they can't fly then transmute the mud to rock, reflex save to avoid entrapment.

This past weekend the DM hit us with a real bad nasty that spells had no effect on thnaks to anti magic. It took 3 trys but it finaly failed the save. :)

Then summon monster7( take two celestial polar bears or more if you roll high), for the strength needed..........wall of iron spell for 10d6. I want the DM to explain making that reflex save;), repeat as needed. :D
:clap :clap :clap I imagine the bears pushing the wall,  that's funny...

You shift back to the material plane (as you are on another plane when you are in a Rope Trick)
I understood that but...

and then nuke them from above with whatever SR: No Instantaneous spells you can pull out of your ass. And a liberal abuse of Scrolls of Wish.
Also, for non-fliers, there are pleny of conjuration spells that can be used in an AMF, Orb of X, for example.

Where does it say that Instantaneous spells can pierce through AMF? Is that RAW or RAI?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 01:22:36 AM by Desca »

Sinfire Titan

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2008, 01:34:43 AM »
I always thought warblades took IHS explicitly so they wouldn't have their items supressed in AMFs...
I limited the use of IHS. I don't think that because the Warblade is "affected" by the sun rays, he can "End" the Sun. I know CustServ said that supressing an AMF was possible but...  ??? The player itself thought we should modify it.

Transmute rock to mud drops the down to movement 5 unless they have wings.

If they can't fly then transmute the mud to rock, reflex save to avoid entrapment.

This past weekend the DM hit us with a real bad nasty that spells had no effect on thnaks to anti magic. It took 3 trys but it finaly failed the save. :)

Then summon monster7( take two celestial polar bears or more if you roll high), for the strength needed..........wall of iron spell for 10d6. I want the DM to explain making that reflex save;), repeat as needed. :D
:clap :clap :clap I imagine the bears pushing the wall,  that's funny...

You shift back to the material plane (as you are on another plane when you are in a Rope Trick)
I understood that but...

and then nuke them from above with whatever SR: No Instantaneous spells you can pull out of your ass. And a liberal abuse of Scrolls of Wish.
Also, for non-fliers, there are pleny of conjuration spells that can be used in an AMF, Orb of X, for example.

Where does it say that Instantaneous spells can pierce through AMF? Is that RAW or RAI?

Its actually a rule. You can cast them into one, but not while inside one.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2008, 01:45:29 AM »
Past level 5, you shouldn't be able to bring an AMF near a caster, as they are most likely to be airborn and out of reach.
Unless of course they fly up before using AMF, or have a way to fly without spells right?

AMF is a weapon, you wouldn't use a bow in melee and you would not throw your sword (unless it had returning) anymore than than you would just pop off AMF whle standing on the ground looking up at aftercrescent's 'I won initiative cus I said so, and I so cast fly and move up because I know to use that tactic instead of the fifty thousand others I prefer to use" reasoning. I need to change my sig...

Anyway, the tactic is not really cheap, just balancing.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
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1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
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[/spoiler]

Desca

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2008, 02:03:08 AM »
Unless of course they fly up before using AMF, or have a way to fly without spells right?

AMF is a weapon, you wouldn't use a bow in melee and you would not throw your sword (unless it had returning) anymore than than you would just pop off AMF whle standing on the ground looking up at aftercrescent's 'I won initiative cus I said so, and I so cast fly and move up because I know to use that tactic instead of the fifty thousand others I prefer to use" reasoning. I need to change my sig...

Anyway, the tactic is not really cheap, just balancing.

:bow :bow A cookie for you and your new sig :P (Although Fly + Wall of Wind owns B w/bows)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 02:06:59 AM by Desca »

SorO_Lost

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2008, 02:13:44 AM »
:bow :bow A cookie for you and your new sig :P (Although Fly + Wall of Wind owns B w/bows)
Thanks. I need to shorten it some though, it seems a little long. Maybe I can just keep changing the bottom to debunk other so called 'tactics' around weekly as some sort of sig column. (although you just spent two rounds worth of actions which is more an enough to kill a d4 HDer  ;) )

Its one thing to say you can do X to prevent Y. Its another thing entirely to always assume you can do X to beat Y.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 02:18:34 AM by SorO_Lost »
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Hazren

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2008, 02:22:57 AM »

Its one thing to say you can do X to prevent Y. Its another thing entirely to always assume you can do X to beat Y.

Great point. :)

And people wonder why I would prefer a caster with 170+ spells to cast in a day vs one that can do a few. In a word Versatility  (and combo's that just keep on coming.) :D

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AfterCrescent

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Re: ToB + AMF
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2008, 03:11:31 AM »
Oh I agree that versatility is awesome. And I agree that just because X beats Y doesn't mean it always wins. Everything is situational.  Not everything can fly naturally, so without that, AMF'ing a flying caster is not going to happen... You know, unless, as you pointed out, you can fly up first and then activate the AMF. Which is fucking retarded, since you're both taking the falling damage at that point... :P

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with your point, Lost. AMF is a weapon and should be used intelligently. A bow user may be able to use a bow in melee, but that's situational, just like throwing a (returning) sword, etc.  However, since AMFs are big threats to most casters, most have ways to get around it. It's not the perfect solution, but it's a valid balancing one, as you point out.
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Clerics just wake up one morning and decide they need to kick ass, and it needs to be kicked NOW. ~veekie