Author Topic: Epic spellcasting 3.5  (Read 3618 times)

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RobbyPants

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Epic spellcasting 3.5
« on: August 04, 2008, 02:43:33 PM »
Are the epic spellcasting rules from the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook still valid in 3.5?  While several 3.0 feats have been reprinted in various 3.5 sources, I haven't found any 3.5 reprints for epic spellcasting.

Assuming it's still valid, what are some of your favorite epic spells.  Of the ones printed, I wasn't too impressed, but the idea of being able to make my own with the rules printed intrigues me.  I've been exploring the options of various crowd control or debuffs to see what would work the best.

If you have any ideas, suggestions, or past experience with these types of spells, please let me know.
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Ubernoob

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Re: Epic spellcasting 3.5
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2008, 02:57:46 PM »
Epic spellcasting doesn't work.  I'd suggest just not using it.  Instead just give slots above 9th for more metamagic.
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Stratovarius

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Re: Epic spellcasting 3.5
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2008, 03:18:20 PM »
It is valid, but there is a certain broken tinge to the whole system. And there are some 3.5 books that reference it, like Champions of Ruin.
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Omen of Peace

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Re: Epic spellcasting 3.5
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2008, 04:05:04 PM »
Check out alternate spellcasting systems in the Epic Compendium (link in my sig). As is, the ELH system indeed does not work very well.
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RobbyPants

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Re: Epic spellcasting 3.5
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2008, 05:12:31 PM »
Epic spellcasting doesn't work.  I'd suggest just not using it.  Instead just give slots above 9th for more metamagic.
I'd gotten that impression from what I've read from it.

When you say using higher level spell slots, do you mean to follow some progression, or by spending epic feats to get the slots?  I know there's already a feat to grant you higher than 9th level slots for that reason.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Ubernoob

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Re: Epic spellcasting 3.5
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2008, 06:28:33 PM »
Epic spellcasting doesn't work.  I'd suggest just not using it.  Instead just give slots above 9th for more metamagic.
I'd gotten that impression from what I've read from it.

When you say using higher level spell slots, do you mean to follow some progression, or by spending epic feats to get the slots?  I know there's already a feat to grant you higher than 9th level slots for that reason.
I've most often seen it as granting a single spell (subject to bonuses from domain slots or high casting stat) of spell level X whenever your levels in +casting class are X times two minus one.  Basically give tenth level spell slots at 19 and another level of spells every two levels.  Also, give heighten as a bonus feat to everyone.  Eliminate all the epic feats that you can look up in the SRD.  Improved metamagic is a particularly bad offender.
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RobbyPants

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Re: Epic spellcasting 3.5
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2008, 10:19:23 AM »
I've most often seen it as granting a single spell (subject to bonuses from domain slots or high casting stat) of spell level X whenever your levels in +casting class are X times two minus one.  Basically give tenth level spell slots at 19 and another level of spells every two levels.  Also, give heighten as a bonus feat to everyone.  Eliminate all the epic feats that you can look up in the SRD.  Improved metamagic is a particularly bad offender.
So you're suggesting just following the progression from the table then, pretty much, and just extend it?  I guess that's an easy way to do it.

I've also noticed 3.5 nerfed a few of the old 3.0 feats.  My mouth started watering when I read the 3.0 Automatic Quicken.  Three feats to auto-quicken every standard action spell I can cast?!?  Yes please!  At least now they dropped it to one spell level per feat, so it would take nine feats to accomplish the same task.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Runestar

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Re: Epic spellcasting 3.5
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2008, 12:10:26 PM »
Quote
At least now they dropped it to one spell level per feat, so it would take nine feats to accomplish the same task.

Which kinda defeats the purpose. I mean, heck, why not just take improved metamagic and ISC multiple times? I think auto-quicken is fine (master specialist conjurers already get the ability to quicken conjuration spells for free at just lv13). It is multispell you really want to watch out for.

Epic spellcasting is problematic in that it clearly favours one genre of spells over another. As is, it is all to easy to research long duration area-affecting buff spells (because you can use ritual casting and extend its casting time to dramatically lower the final DC), while damage spells are hosed (partly because giving it a casting time of 1 standard action already adds +18 to the final DC, and damage scales just too slowly).

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Ubernoob

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Re: Epic spellcasting 3.5
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2008, 02:14:16 PM »
I've most often seen it as granting a single spell (subject to bonuses from domain slots or high casting stat) of spell level X whenever your levels in +casting class are X times two minus one.  Basically give tenth level spell slots at 19 and another level of spells every two levels.  Also, give heighten as a bonus feat to everyone.  Eliminate all the epic feats that you can look up in the SRD.  Improved metamagic is a particularly bad offender.
So you're suggesting just following the progression from the table then, pretty much, and just extend it?  I guess that's an easy way to do it.

I've also noticed 3.5 nerfed a few of the old 3.0 feats.  My mouth started watering when I read the 3.0 Automatic Quicken.  Three feats to auto-quicken every standard action spell I can cast?!?  Yes please!  At least now they dropped it to one spell level per feat, so it would take nine feats to accomplish the same task.
That's it.  Keep multispell, but change it like this:
Quick[Epic]
You are ninja fast.
Prereq: Must have at least one other epic feat.
Benefit: You gain an extra swift action each round.  This means you may use two immediate action spells on one turn if you so chose to.  Have fun with that.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, but each time after the first time you need to have [Number of times you will have taken quick]*15 hit dice.
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CountArioch

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Re: Epic spellcasting 3.5
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2008, 06:45:09 PM »
I've most often seen it as granting a single spell (subject to bonuses from domain slots or high casting stat) of spell level X whenever your levels in +casting class are X times two minus one.  Basically give tenth level spell slots at 19 and another level of spells every two levels.  Also, give heighten as a bonus feat to everyone.  Eliminate all the epic feats that you can look up in the SRD.  Improved metamagic is a particularly bad offender.
So you're suggesting just following the progression from the table then, pretty much, and just extend it?  I guess that's an easy way to do it.

I've also noticed 3.5 nerfed a few of the old 3.0 feats.  My mouth started watering when I read the 3.0 Automatic Quicken.  Three feats to auto-quicken every standard action spell I can cast?!?  Yes please!  At least now they dropped it to one spell level per feat, so it would take nine feats to accomplish the same task.

Technically, it would only take 3 feats to accomplish what 3.0 Auto Quicken did.  Seriously, read the feat again, it didn't do what you thought it did.
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RobbyPants

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Re: Epic spellcasting 3.5
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2008, 11:41:15 PM »
Technically, it would only take 3 feats to accomplish what 3.0 Auto Quicken did.  Seriously, read the feat again, it didn't do what you thought it did.
What three feats are you talking about?  The three I referenced were taking 3.0 Auto Quicken three times (1st - 3rd, 4th - 6th, and 7th - 9th).
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

CountArioch

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Re: Epic spellcasting 3.5
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2008, 01:07:19 AM »
Technically, it would only take 3 feats to accomplish what 3.0 Auto Quicken did.  Seriously, read the feat again, it didn't do what you thought it did.
What three feats are you talking about?  The three I referenced were taking 3.0 Auto Quicken three times (1st - 3rd, 4th - 6th, and 7th - 9th).

Never mind, I misunderstood you.  Sorry. 
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She has come to steal your sanity with just one glance

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