Author Topic: Astral Construct vs Fighter  (Read 21400 times)

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Phoenix00

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2011, 07:09:35 PM »
Don't worry about invisibility, unless I know the situation before hand, this is what I would pick for my menu abilities.

Menu C
1)  Concussion (Ps) :The astral construct can manifest concussion blast (manifester level 7th) as a free action once per round. (free actions are fun)
2)  Blindsight (Ex) The astral construct has blindsight out to 60 feet. (since I don't know the situation before hand, and I may have an invisibile attacker)

For my 3rd Menu C ability I trade out it for 2 Menu B abilities
Menu B
3a)  Improved Fly (Ex) The astral construct has physical wings and a fly speed of 40 feet (average). (flight is fun, and drastically reduces the number of things that can affect my astral construct at level 6)
3b)  Improved Grab (Ex) To use this ability, the construct must hit with its slam attack. A construct can use this ability only on a target that is at least one size smaller than itself. (affects creatures of size large or smaller, use that +38 grapple score to your advantage and attack at the same time.)

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2011, 07:22:17 PM »
An arena fight is not a "real" game.
And this thought experiment was not posted in the YBIYBI section, thus TO material should be left out.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Tr011

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2011, 07:30:04 PM »
1d8 + 28 (average 23.5)
Sorry, it's too funny to not be pointed out... xD

Kajhera

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2011, 07:31:30 PM »
1d8 + 28 (average 23.5)
Sorry, it's too funny to not be pointed out... xD
Crap, I must've switched the numbers there. /dyslexic apparently  :p

X-Codes

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2011, 07:43:42 PM »
An arena fight is not a "real" game.
And this thought experiment was not posted in the YBIYBI section, thus TO material should be left out.
Nevermind that Eberron stuff could have been better balanced by a retarded goldfish.  (Link shards on one extreme, the Finesse weapon enhancement on the other.)

Kajhera

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2011, 07:49:10 PM »
Not done yet, nevermind
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 07:55:53 PM by Kajhera »

Sinfire Titan

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2011, 08:26:18 PM »
An arena fight is not a "real" game.
And this thought experiment was not posted in the YBIYBI section, thus TO material should be left out.
Nevermind that Eberron stuff could have been better balanced by a retarded goldfish.  (Link shards on one extreme, the Finesse weapon enhancement on the other.)
While I agree, the same can be said for the entirety of 3.5.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Nachofan99

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2011, 08:34:30 PM »
Thread needs more undead, venerable, dragonwrought kobold fighters taking epic level feats.   ;)

Fighter wins this handsdown in pretty much every way at equal levels of optimization (high end or low end).  Fighters have a lot more material to mix/match than Astral Constructs so, more options=more better.   An Astral Construct has no Int score - it's all on the Shaper.  Granted, Shapers will be smart enough to pilot the AC's it's just something to note.

I think I'm going to see a lot of "Let me have TO optimization for the Shaper/AC pair, and make sure we hamstring the Fighter with restrictions that *my character* doesn't have to follow, but your's has to."
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 08:36:12 PM by Nachofan99 »

Kajhera

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2011, 08:39:32 PM »
Thread needs more undead, venerable, dragonwrought kobold fighters taking epic level feats.   ;)

Fighter wins this handsdown in pretty much every way at equal levels of optimization (high end or low end).  Fighters have a lot more material to mix/match than Astral Constructs so, more options=more better.   An Astral Construct has no Int score - it's all on the Shaper.  Granted, Shapers will be smart enough to pilot the AC's it's just something to note.

I think I'm going to see a lot of "Let me have TO optimization for the Shaper/AC pair, and make sure we hamstring the Fighter with restrictions that *my character* doesn't have to follow, but your's has to."

I was going to almost definitely beat the astral construct but then I realized I couldn't get a steel dragon wyrmling cohort til 8th level.  :(

X-Codes

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2011, 09:28:48 PM »
Thread needs more undead, venerable, dragonwrought kobold fighters taking epic level feats.   ;)

Fighter wins this handsdown in pretty much every way at equal levels of optimization (high end or low end).  Fighters have a lot more material to mix/match than Astral Constructs so, more options=more better.   An Astral Construct has no Int score - it's all on the Shaper.  Granted, Shapers will be smart enough to pilot the AC's it's just something to note.

I think I'm going to see a lot of "Let me have TO optimization for the Shaper/AC pair, and make sure we hamstring the Fighter with restrictions that *my character* doesn't have to follow, but your's has to."
No worries.  The level 9 AC can be countered by a Candle of Invocation.
I was going to almost definitely beat the astral construct but then I realized I couldn't get a steel dragon wyrmling cohort til 8th level.  :(

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2011, 09:33:33 PM »
I can manage 9th level astral constructs by 10th level, if going optimized. I'm not sure a fighter at 10th can quite compare to that, especially since my shaper/constructor can give the construct equipment to use for a double-Extended 40 minutes (with that feat in Hyperconscious) and 4 menu C abilities via multiple Boost Construct feats.

[edit] WITHOUT shards.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 09:59:38 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
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Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
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shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Kajhera

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2011, 10:15:56 PM »
Ooh. Tenth. I can get the dragon then.  :)

Regrettably, though, *you* will probably grab Invisibility, which will reduce it to melee range, which makes my strategy of grabbing a wand of Acid Arrow and dealing minor damage from five hundred twenty feet away while running like hell somewhat less viable, not that it was particularly stylish in the first place. And that whole matter of giving it equipment could be troublesome indeed.

Edit: Though he specified non-summoned in the descriptor so I think someone went and made it permanent via that Hyperconscious power.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2011, 10:19:15 PM »
Ooh. Tenth. I can get the dragon then.  :)

Regrettably, though, *you* will probably grab Invisibility, which will reduce it to melee range, which makes my strategy of grabbing a wand of Acid Arrow and dealing minor damage from five hundred twenty feet away while running like hell somewhat less viable, not that it was particularly stylish in the first place. And that whole matter of giving it equipment could be troublesome indeed.

Edit: Though he specified non-summoned in the descriptor so I think someone went and made it permanent via that Hyperconscious power.
I believe that costs somewhere in the range of millions of xp.

You'd have to be WAAAAAY into epic for that.

Also, since I'd be early-entry for constructor (psion 5/constructor 5, via Favored Contact psyref'd out later), it'd only be 36 minutes, as I wouldn't bother with the Hyperconscious feat, and would rely on the Extended Construction ability instead.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 10:21:40 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Kajhera

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2011, 10:20:29 PM »
Ooh. Tenth. I can get the dragon then.  :)

Regrettably, though, *you* will probably grab Invisibility, which will reduce it to melee range, which makes my strategy of grabbing a wand of Acid Arrow and dealing minor damage from five hundred twenty feet away while running like hell somewhat less viable, not that it was particularly stylish in the first place. And that whole matter of giving it equipment could be troublesome indeed.

Edit: Though he specified non-summoned in the descriptor so I think someone went and made it permanent via that Hyperconscious power.
I believe that costs somewhere in the range of millions of xp.

You'd have to be WAAAAAY into epic for that.
Maybe someone epic made a creature with that as a psi-like ability.

Kajhera

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2011, 10:23:03 PM »
Ooh. Tenth. I can get the dragon then.  :)

Regrettably, though, *you* will probably grab Invisibility, which will reduce it to melee range, which makes my strategy of grabbing a wand of Acid Arrow and dealing minor damage from five hundred twenty feet away while running like hell somewhat less viable, not that it was particularly stylish in the first place. And that whole matter of giving it equipment could be troublesome indeed.

Edit: Though he specified non-summoned in the descriptor so I think someone went and made it permanent via that Hyperconscious power.
I believe that costs somewhere in the range of millions of xp.

You'd have to be WAAAAAY into epic for that.

Also, since I'd be early-entry for constructor (psion 5/constructor 5, via Favored Contact psyref'd out later), it'd only be 36 minutes, as I wouldn't bother with the Hyperconscious feat, and would rely on the Extended Construction ability instead.

Hey now, go pure Shaper, I keep wanting to go into prestige classes but don't have books so all I can look up are feats and some templates. >>'

Edit: Also, if you can get 9th level constructs without link shard things, there's no point in using them ... Heh.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 10:26:26 PM by Kajhera »

Bloody Initiate

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2011, 10:54:10 PM »
TO stuff
No DM is going to allow that kind of BS in a real game.  :rollseyes
An arena fight is not a "real" game.

And TO isn't a "real" tactic so your build isn't a "real" build.

Eventually there ARE rules, and just as the limits of the arena are defined so will the limits of the rules.

And Arenas CAN make appearances in real games, it's a common trope for arenas to show up in fantasy genres. Plenty of D&D games feature arena fights as part of the plot. People have loved arenas since they could first build them. This topic's existence is proof of the matter.
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Mixster

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2011, 11:18:31 PM »
Isn't there a feat somewhere that allows a Psion to combine Summon Monster and Astral Construct into one ability? So you could summon celestial Bisons with improved grab, wings and blindsight?
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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bearsarebrown

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2011, 11:23:40 PM »
Yes. Dragon 313 has it. Dual Plane Summons.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2011, 12:05:03 AM »
Ooh. Tenth. I can get the dragon then.  :)

Regrettably, though, *you* will probably grab Invisibility, which will reduce it to melee range, which makes my strategy of grabbing a wand of Acid Arrow and dealing minor damage from five hundred twenty feet away while running like hell somewhat less viable, not that it was particularly stylish in the first place. And that whole matter of giving it equipment could be troublesome indeed.

Edit: Though he specified non-summoned in the descriptor so I think someone went and made it permanent via that Hyperconscious power.
I believe that costs somewhere in the range of millions of xp.

You'd have to be WAAAAAY into epic for that.

Also, since I'd be early-entry for constructor (psion 5/constructor 5, via Favored Contact psyref'd out later), it'd only be 36 minutes, as I wouldn't bother with the Hyperconscious feat, and would rely on the Extended Construction ability instead.

Hey now, go pure Shaper, I keep wanting to go into prestige classes but don't have books so all I can look up are feats and some templates. >>'

Edit: Also, if you can get 9th level constructs without link shard things, there's no point in using them ... Heh.
You said "optimize for astral constructs." That means the constructor PrC. Otherwise, you aren't optimizing as well as you could be (sans TO).

Also, the constructor is online. Google it.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 12:13:07 AM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Kajhera

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Re: Astral Construct vs Fighter
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2011, 12:08:00 AM »
Ooh. Tenth. I can get the dragon then.  :)

Regrettably, though, *you* will probably grab Invisibility, which will reduce it to melee range, which makes my strategy of grabbing a wand of Acid Arrow and dealing minor damage from five hundred twenty feet away while running like hell somewhat less viable, not that it was particularly stylish in the first place. And that whole matter of giving it equipment could be troublesome indeed.

Edit: Though he specified non-summoned in the descriptor so I think someone went and made it permanent via that Hyperconscious power.
I believe that costs somewhere in the range of millions of xp.

You'd have to be WAAAAAY into epic for that.

Also, since I'd be early-entry for constructor (psion 5/constructor 5, via Favored Contact psyref'd out later), it'd only be 36 minutes, as I wouldn't bother with the Hyperconscious feat, and would rely on the Extended Construction ability instead.

Hey now, go pure Shaper, I keep wanting to go into prestige classes but don't have books so all I can look up are feats and some templates. >>'

Edit: Also, if you can get 9th level constructs without link shard things, there's no point in using them ... Heh.
You said "optimize for astral constructs." That means the constructor PrC. Otherwise, you aren't optimizing as well as you could be (sans TO).
I didn't say it but yeah this is true. Since it's available online I'll concede the point easily. :P