http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com
February 18, 2018, 10:19:16 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: These boards are now READ ONLY. We've started over! So don't try posting here. Go here http://minmaxforum.com
 
   Home   Help Search Members Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Astral Construct vs Fighter  (Read 21261 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Phoenix00
That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
****
Posts: 275


« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2011, 07:09:35 PM »

Don't worry about invisibility, unless I know the situation before hand, this is what I would pick for my menu abilities.

Menu C
1)  Concussion (Ps) :The astral construct can manifest concussion blast (manifester level 7th) as a free action once per round. (free actions are fun)
2)  Blindsight (Ex) The astral construct has blindsight out to 60 feet. (since I don't know the situation before hand, and I may have an invisibile attacker)

For my 3rd Menu C ability I trade out it for 2 Menu B abilities
Menu B
3a)  Improved Fly (Ex) The astral construct has physical wings and a fly speed of 40 feet (average). (flight is fun, and drastically reduces the number of things that can affect my astral construct at level 6)
3b)  Improved Grab (Ex) To use this ability, the construct must hit with its slam attack. A construct can use this ability only on a target that is at least one size smaller than itself. (affects creatures of size large or smaller, use that +38 grapple score to your advantage and attack at the same time.)
Logged
Sinfire Titan
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 5697


You've got one round to give a rat's ass.


« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2011, 07:22:17 PM »

An arena fight is not a "real" game.
And this thought experiment was not posted in the YBIYBI section, thus TO material should be left out.
Logged



Tr011
That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
****
Posts: 262


preparing arcane spellcaster


« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2011, 07:30:04 PM »

1d8 + 28 (average 23.5)
Sorry, it's too funny to not be pointed out... xD
Logged
Kajhera
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1167


« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2011, 07:31:30 PM »

1d8 + 28 (average 23.5)
Sorry, it's too funny to not be pointed out... xD
Crap, I must've switched the numbers there. /dyslexic apparently  Tongue
Logged
X-Codes
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 3941



« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2011, 07:43:42 PM »

An arena fight is not a "real" game.
And this thought experiment was not posted in the YBIYBI section, thus TO material should be left out.
Nevermind that Eberron stuff could have been better balanced by a retarded goldfish.  (Link shards on one extreme, the Finesse weapon enhancement on the other.)
Logged

Kajhera
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1167


« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2011, 07:49:10 PM »

Not done yet, nevermind
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 07:55:53 PM by Kajhera » Logged
Sinfire Titan
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 5697


You've got one round to give a rat's ass.


« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2011, 08:26:18 PM »

An arena fight is not a "real" game.
And this thought experiment was not posted in the YBIYBI section, thus TO material should be left out.
Nevermind that Eberron stuff could have been better balanced by a retarded goldfish.  (Link shards on one extreme, the Finesse weapon enhancement on the other.)
While I agree, the same can be said for the entirety of 3.5.
Logged



Nachofan99
Bi-Curious George
****
Posts: 429


« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2011, 08:34:30 PM »

Thread needs more undead, venerable, dragonwrought kobold fighters taking epic level feats.   Wink

Fighter wins this handsdown in pretty much every way at equal levels of optimization (high end or low end).  Fighters have a lot more material to mix/match than Astral Constructs so, more options=more better.   An Astral Construct has no Int score - it's all on the Shaper.  Granted, Shapers will be smart enough to pilot the AC's it's just something to note.

I think I'm going to see a lot of "Let me have TO optimization for the Shaper/AC pair, and make sure we hamstring the Fighter with restrictions that *my character* doesn't have to follow, but your's has to."
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 08:36:12 PM by Nachofan99 » Logged
Kajhera
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1167


« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2011, 08:39:32 PM »

Thread needs more undead, venerable, dragonwrought kobold fighters taking epic level feats.   Wink

Fighter wins this handsdown in pretty much every way at equal levels of optimization (high end or low end).  Fighters have a lot more material to mix/match than Astral Constructs so, more options=more better.   An Astral Construct has no Int score - it's all on the Shaper.  Granted, Shapers will be smart enough to pilot the AC's it's just something to note.

I think I'm going to see a lot of "Let me have TO optimization for the Shaper/AC pair, and make sure we hamstring the Fighter with restrictions that *my character* doesn't have to follow, but your's has to."

I was going to almost definitely beat the astral construct but then I realized I couldn't get a steel dragon wyrmling cohort til 8th level.  Sad
Logged
X-Codes
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 3941



« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2011, 09:28:48 PM »

Thread needs more undead, venerable, dragonwrought kobold fighters taking epic level feats.   Wink

Fighter wins this handsdown in pretty much every way at equal levels of optimization (high end or low end).  Fighters have a lot more material to mix/match than Astral Constructs so, more options=more better.   An Astral Construct has no Int score - it's all on the Shaper.  Granted, Shapers will be smart enough to pilot the AC's it's just something to note.

I think I'm going to see a lot of "Let me have TO optimization for the Shaper/AC pair, and make sure we hamstring the Fighter with restrictions that *my character* doesn't have to follow, but your's has to."
No worries.  The level 9 AC can be countered by a Candle of Invocation.
I was going to almost definitely beat the astral construct but then I realized I couldn't get a steel dragon wyrmling cohort til 8th level.  Sad
Logged

Lycanthromancer
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 4003



« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2011, 09:33:33 PM »

I can manage 9th level astral constructs by 10th level, if going optimized. I'm not sure a fighter at 10th can quite compare to that, especially since my shaper/constructor can give the construct equipment to use for a double-Extended 40 minutes (with that feat in Hyperconscious) and 4 menu C abilities via multiple Boost Construct feats.

[edit] WITHOUT shards.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 09:59:38 PM by Lycanthromancer » Logged

Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 Big Grin
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
Kajhera
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1167


« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2011, 10:15:56 PM »

Ooh. Tenth. I can get the dragon then.  Smile

Regrettably, though, *you* will probably grab Invisibility, which will reduce it to melee range, which makes my strategy of grabbing a wand of Acid Arrow and dealing minor damage from five hundred twenty feet away while running like hell somewhat less viable, not that it was particularly stylish in the first place. And that whole matter of giving it equipment could be troublesome indeed.

Edit: Though he specified non-summoned in the descriptor so I think someone went and made it permanent via that Hyperconscious power.
Logged
Lycanthromancer
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 4003



« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2011, 10:19:15 PM »

Ooh. Tenth. I can get the dragon then.  Smile

Regrettably, though, *you* will probably grab Invisibility, which will reduce it to melee range, which makes my strategy of grabbing a wand of Acid Arrow and dealing minor damage from five hundred twenty feet away while running like hell somewhat less viable, not that it was particularly stylish in the first place. And that whole matter of giving it equipment could be troublesome indeed.

Edit: Though he specified non-summoned in the descriptor so I think someone went and made it permanent via that Hyperconscious power.
I believe that costs somewhere in the range of millions of xp.

You'd have to be WAAAAAY into epic for that.

Also, since I'd be early-entry for constructor (psion 5/constructor 5, via Favored Contact psyref'd out later), it'd only be 36 minutes, as I wouldn't bother with the Hyperconscious feat, and would rely on the Extended Construction ability instead.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 10:21:40 PM by Lycanthromancer » Logged

Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 Big Grin
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
Kajhera
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1167


« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2011, 10:20:29 PM »

Ooh. Tenth. I can get the dragon then.  Smile

Regrettably, though, *you* will probably grab Invisibility, which will reduce it to melee range, which makes my strategy of grabbing a wand of Acid Arrow and dealing minor damage from five hundred twenty feet away while running like hell somewhat less viable, not that it was particularly stylish in the first place. And that whole matter of giving it equipment could be troublesome indeed.

Edit: Though he specified non-summoned in the descriptor so I think someone went and made it permanent via that Hyperconscious power.
I believe that costs somewhere in the range of millions of xp.

You'd have to be WAAAAAY into epic for that.
Maybe someone epic made a creature with that as a psi-like ability.
Logged
Kajhera
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1167


« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2011, 10:23:03 PM »

Ooh. Tenth. I can get the dragon then.  Smile

Regrettably, though, *you* will probably grab Invisibility, which will reduce it to melee range, which makes my strategy of grabbing a wand of Acid Arrow and dealing minor damage from five hundred twenty feet away while running like hell somewhat less viable, not that it was particularly stylish in the first place. And that whole matter of giving it equipment could be troublesome indeed.

Edit: Though he specified non-summoned in the descriptor so I think someone went and made it permanent via that Hyperconscious power.
I believe that costs somewhere in the range of millions of xp.

You'd have to be WAAAAAY into epic for that.

Also, since I'd be early-entry for constructor (psion 5/constructor 5, via Favored Contact psyref'd out later), it'd only be 36 minutes, as I wouldn't bother with the Hyperconscious feat, and would rely on the Extended Construction ability instead.

Hey now, go pure Shaper, I keep wanting to go into prestige classes but don't have books so all I can look up are feats and some templates. >>'

Edit: Also, if you can get 9th level constructs without link shard things, there's no point in using them ... Heh.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 10:26:26 PM by Kajhera » Logged
Bloody Initiate
King Kong
****
Posts: 798


« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2011, 10:54:10 PM »

TO stuff
No DM is going to allow that kind of BS in a real game.  Rolls Eyes
An arena fight is not a "real" game.

And TO isn't a "real" tactic so your build isn't a "real" build.

Eventually there ARE rules, and just as the limits of the arena are defined so will the limits of the rules.

And Arenas CAN make appearances in real games, it's a common trope for arenas to show up in fantasy genres. Plenty of D&D games feature arena fights as part of the plot. People have loved arenas since they could first build them. This topic's existence is proof of the matter.
Logged

I don't employ memes. Mass-produced ammunition, even from reputable manufacturers, tends to malfunction on occasion.
Mixster
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1642



« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2011, 11:18:31 PM »

Isn't there a feat somewhere that allows a Psion to combine Summon Monster and Astral Construct into one ability? So you could summon celestial Bisons with improved grab, wings and blindsight?
Logged

Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out
bearsarebrown
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 2616



« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2011, 11:23:40 PM »

Yes. Dragon 313 has it. Dual Plane Summons.
Logged
Lycanthromancer
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 4003



« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2011, 12:05:03 AM »

Ooh. Tenth. I can get the dragon then.  Smile

Regrettably, though, *you* will probably grab Invisibility, which will reduce it to melee range, which makes my strategy of grabbing a wand of Acid Arrow and dealing minor damage from five hundred twenty feet away while running like hell somewhat less viable, not that it was particularly stylish in the first place. And that whole matter of giving it equipment could be troublesome indeed.

Edit: Though he specified non-summoned in the descriptor so I think someone went and made it permanent via that Hyperconscious power.
I believe that costs somewhere in the range of millions of xp.

You'd have to be WAAAAAY into epic for that.

Also, since I'd be early-entry for constructor (psion 5/constructor 5, via Favored Contact psyref'd out later), it'd only be 36 minutes, as I wouldn't bother with the Hyperconscious feat, and would rely on the Extended Construction ability instead.

Hey now, go pure Shaper, I keep wanting to go into prestige classes but don't have books so all I can look up are feats and some templates. >>'

Edit: Also, if you can get 9th level constructs without link shard things, there's no point in using them ... Heh.
You said "optimize for astral constructs." That means the constructor PrC. Otherwise, you aren't optimizing as well as you could be (sans TO).

Also, the constructor is online. Google it.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 12:13:07 AM by Lycanthromancer » Logged

Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 Big Grin
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
Kajhera
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1167


« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2011, 12:08:00 AM »

Ooh. Tenth. I can get the dragon then.  Smile

Regrettably, though, *you* will probably grab Invisibility, which will reduce it to melee range, which makes my strategy of grabbing a wand of Acid Arrow and dealing minor damage from five hundred twenty feet away while running like hell somewhat less viable, not that it was particularly stylish in the first place. And that whole matter of giving it equipment could be troublesome indeed.

Edit: Though he specified non-summoned in the descriptor so I think someone went and made it permanent via that Hyperconscious power.
I believe that costs somewhere in the range of millions of xp.

You'd have to be WAAAAAY into epic for that.

Also, since I'd be early-entry for constructor (psion 5/constructor 5, via Favored Contact psyref'd out later), it'd only be 36 minutes, as I wouldn't bother with the Hyperconscious feat, and would rely on the Extended Construction ability instead.

Hey now, go pure Shaper, I keep wanting to go into prestige classes but don't have books so all I can look up are feats and some templates. >>'

Edit: Also, if you can get 9th level constructs without link shard things, there's no point in using them ... Heh.
You said "optimize for astral constructs." That means the constructor PrC. Otherwise, you aren't optimizing as well as you could be (sans TO).
I didn't say it but yeah this is true. Since it's available online I'll concede the point easily.
Logged
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!