http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com
February 18, 2018, 10:17:45 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: These boards are now READ ONLY. We've started over! So don't try posting here. Go here http://minmaxforum.com
 
   Home   Help Search Members Login Register  
Pages: 1
  Print  
Author Topic: Yet Another Archer: Cleric Version  (Read 6668 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Bard
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
***
Posts: 198



« on: October 26, 2011, 06:43:16 AM »

Soo... still doing premade characters for my group, this one is the last of the "archers" and it's supposed to be a healer-archer.
He will need to do decent DPS, decent in-combat healing and must be able to avoid/block damage because as soon as he starts healing he WILL be focused.
I consider the healing part more or less solved with 2 feats by getting Mastery of Day and Night, but the other two points are harder to optimize it seems.
I must say that while I always heard well of Cleric Archers (and built some for less optimized campaign) I never tried to optimize one, especially not with the "archery" part playing an important role in the build.
At the end of the day I'm really underwhelmed by it, so I'd be grateful if someone can help me a bit improving that aspect.

And since I hate asking for help without giving it a try first at least, despite the crappy results, here's what I have for now:
Human
Cloister Cleric 5, no deity, domains: War (weapon focus: longbow), Travel (for Survival), Knowledge (traded for Knowledge Devotion)
Divine Oracle 2 for the "armored evasion"
Contemplative 1 for Planning Domain to get Extend Spell
Seeker of Misty Island 10 mostly for Travel Domain, exchanged for Travel Devotion and then because there wasn't anything better (adaptation to be used without being an elf or having Corellon as a patron)
Feats: Zen Archery, Maximize Spell, Mastery of Day and Night, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Holy Warrior (yay more damage), Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic: Persistent and 1 free feat.

What I need:
* Almost full caster level (one level can be lost, not more)
* High archery dps (I don't need suicidal charging jumping frenzied berserker high, but at least an average of 100/150dpr considering miss and such, ofc the higher it is, the better)
* GOOD defenses (I don't care what kind, as long as he can survive a bit)
* Coherence (I don't care if he's a guy from thay that trained in eberron, but I'd like to avoid the cleric of pelor that sumons undeads to build homes for the slaads with a level dip in ninja)
As a plus:
* No alignment restriction / can be neutral
About the books:
* the campaign allows all WotC official and licensed books of any setting (so, including Dragonlance/Ravenloft)
* Wotc website is ok
* Dragon Magazine is (mostly) ok as long as it's not blatantly broken.
* Adaptations can be used
* Setting specific stuff can be used, even with each other (the campaign is in the planes with all D&D settings included as material planes that can be reached from Sigil or gates and vice-versa)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 03:14:40 PM by Bard » Logged

His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
Mixster
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1642



« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2011, 07:21:44 AM »

Personally I prefer Bard Archers for DPS, but if you can't do that:
1st, get one of these
2nd, Make it splitting (champions of Ruin)
3rd, Get at least one level of Church Inquisitor (inquisition domain for free), better with 2, they can be taken at 4 and 5.
4th, Get at least a level of prestige Paladin, just because it is awesome.
5th, When getting the Extra Church Inquisitor domain, Ordained Champion becomes a good option.
6th, Item Familiar for your bow is awesome.

Also, there's a Runesmith somewhere (can't remember), that could put Arrow Split from Champions of Ruin on your bow permanently.
If you can ramp up your attack bonus significantly with this set-up, it should put you at about 5-6 hits/turn, and those should deal about 2d6+15+BAB each. So it should put you in the 150-200DPR range.
The reason I prefer archer Bards is that because of Sublime Chord they can enter Arcane Archer without much loss, and keep their DPR high; because with IC they get extra bonuses to hit and damage.

In case of broken Links:
Logged

Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out
Jackinthegreen
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
***
Posts: 181


« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2011, 07:54:55 AM »

You might want to check out the Cleric variations in Dragon 311.  My quick overview of each can be found at http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13456.0

Depending on your build, Zen Archery becomes a worthwhile feat.  Spell Storing arrows are always nice to add various effects.
Logged

Bard
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
***
Posts: 198



« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2011, 03:06:52 PM »

Personally I prefer Bard Archers for DPS, but if you can't do that:
oh, I can do that, but I'm just creating a fuckload of premade characters that more or less balanced with each other for my players to choose from in the next campaign I'll master (and in ones after that maybe) and in case of one-shots and whatever. I can consider preparing a Bard Archer too, I'll see what I can do with your Arcane Archer idea too since I always considered it a crappy class but like that it might be worth it.

Church Inquisitor requires being in a Lawful Good organization but mhnn.. I may try to see if I can fit somehow the flavor of the Church Inquisitor adaptation and the flavor of the Seeker of Misty Island one...
I'll see what I can do with the rest, especially Item Familar... it's risky since some monster, controlled by an evil DM (me) may decide to sunder it... I'll have to point out the risks but it may be worth it.

Quote
Also, there's a Runesmith somewhere (can't remember), that could put Arrow Split from Champions of Ruin on your bow permanently.
If you can ramp up your attack bonus significantly with this set-up, it should put you at about 5-6 hits/turn, and those should deal about 2d6+15+BAB each. So it should put you in the 150-200DPR range.
Why "+BAB"? from where?
Also runesmith there are two, one is a 10 level class from some FR books and one is in Races of Stone... I'll check em both, didn't know they could do that.

You might want to check out the Cleric variations in Dragon 311.  My quick overview of each can be found at http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13456.0

Depending on your build, Zen Archery becomes a worthwhile feat.  Spell Storing arrows are always nice to add various effects.
Oh right, I forgot to write Zen Archery, thanks for pointing it out Big Grin
Checking the variations now~~

Edit: soo... I prefer Cloistered to those variants for Knowledge Devotion, but I'm putting a note to make a Evangelist/Sovreign Speaker D:
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 03:18:32 PM by Bard » Logged

His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
Wilb
Ring-Tailed Lemur
**
Posts: 21


Troll Blooded Bone Knight at your service!


« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2011, 03:33:02 PM »

The +BAB in Mixter's post comes from the Energy Bow, from his link, it's basically Hank's bow from the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon and, among some other interesting powers, it lets you "power attack" with your bow.
Logged
PhaedrusXY
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 8022


Advanced Spambot


« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2011, 03:41:17 PM »

I'll see what I can do with the rest, especially Item Familar... it's risky since some monster, controlled by an evil DM (me) may decide to sunder it... I'll have to point out the risks but it may be worth it.
Make it armor. You can't sunder armor.  Tongue
Logged

A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
Mixster
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1642



« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2011, 04:27:22 PM »

Why "+BAB"? from where?
Hanks Energy Bow makes you able to Power Attack with your shots, so your remove all BAB from hitting and get something else to make sure you hit.
Also runesmith there are two, one is a 10 level class from some FR books and one is in Races of Stone... I'll check em both, didn't know they could do that.
The one I'm thinking about is Runecaster from PGtF, it has a mechanic where it can write a rune on a surface, and anything passing that rune gets a certain spell cast on it. So you could have Gauntlets that cast true-strike when you notch your bow and a bow that casts Arrow-Split when you fire it. Or you could make all the arrows into Shadow (deal strength damage) Or Doublestrike (hits two targets) Or bloodfreeze (paralyzes) Arrows from Champions of Ruin.
The way to get these spells is either to skip cleric altogether and go Archivist instead Or Take two levels of Prestige Ranger.

Here's a sample level 15 build:
Half-Minotaur (bought off, mainly took this to get track) Human
Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Runecaster 2/Prestige Ranger 2/Seeker of The misty Isle 1/Runecaster +6/Contemplative 1
(With partial BAB)
Domains are: Animal, Knowledge, One open. Extra domains are Inquisition (subbed for knowledge devotion), Travel (subbed for Travel Devotion), One Open. (I suggest the Open Domains are War for Holy Warrior and Planning for Extend Spell).
Stats Needed:
Dex 13 (for rapid shot), Int 13 (for Inscribe Rune). Rest of the points can go to Wis and Con.

This character, with a rune of Double-Striking and Maximized Arrowsplit, will fire 10 arrows per attack, of which he'll have 4 with Divine Power (5 if also touching his rune of haste before he fires an arrow). And all of those arrows will hit 2 targets. If he yanks his strength up to around 30 (which is pretty easy being a half-minotaur with Divine Power), his average DPR assuming he can hit on everything but a 1 is (2d6+32)*38=~1500. This is assuming everything hits, so your real damage potential probably lies around a quarter of that. And damage reduction is a huge hurdle to archers everywhere, so you'll need something else to get around that. Get ready for the fact that DMs probably don't like you to roll around 40 attacks each turn though.
You'd have lost 1 Caster Level and about the amount of Experience you'd get from the item familiar feat at this level.
Archivist can probably do it better and simpler though.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 04:48:03 PM by Mixster » Logged

Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out
Jackinthegreen
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
***
Posts: 181


« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2011, 07:31:36 PM »

Damage Reduction?  Hank's Energy Bow laughs at DR.  It does Force damage.
Logged

Mixster
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1642



« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2011, 11:03:55 PM »

Damage Reduction?  Hank's Energy Bow laughs at DR.  It does Force damage.
Right about that, well then you just need to avoid wind wall.
Logged

Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out
Endarire
Man in Gorilla Suit
*****
Posts: 2171



« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 12:52:04 AM »

There's a guide for that.
Logged

Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"
Bard
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
***
Posts: 198



« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 12:57:41 AM »

mhhnn I sorta like the build but I'm not sure how that would fare with feats, especially if you try to fit DMM or/and Mastery of Day and Night in it. I seriously doubt there are enough. (plus I'd like to avoid the half-minotaur since it makes the guy Large... maybe on a strongheart halfling would work better but it would look sorta LOL)
one of the open domains could be used for Sun domain to get entry into Radiant Servant of whatever to get back the Heavy Armor and Shield Proficiency...

The last thing I tried... anyway was:
Cloistered Cleric 2/Human Paragon 3 (bonus stat, bonus feat, survival as class skill)/Seeker of the Misty Island 1/Radiant Servant of Dol Arrah 1/Divine Oracle 2/SotMI +1/Contemplative 1/SotMI +8/whatever 1
Domains:
Knowledge to Knowledge Devotion, War Domain, Sun Domain, Planning as bonus domain, Travel to Travel Domain, Magic, Oracle.

Full Plate, Animated Tower Shield, Armored Evasion and some other nice stuff added
Logged

His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
Mixster
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1642



« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 01:17:29 AM »

mhhnn I sorta like the build but I'm not sure how that would fare with feats, especially if you try to fit DMM or/and Mastery of Day and Night in it. I seriously doubt there are enough. (plus I'd like to avoid the half-minotaur since it makes the guy Large... maybe on a strongheart halfling would work better but it would look sorta LOL)
one of the open domains could be used for Sun domain to get entry into Radiant Servant of whatever to get back the Heavy Armor and Shield Proficiency...

The last thing I tried... anyway was:
Cloistered Cleric 2/Human Paragon 3 (bonus stat, bonus feat, survival as class skill)/Seeker of the Misty Island 1/Radiant Servant of Dol Arrah 1/Divine Oracle 2/SotMI +1/Contemplative 1/SotMI +8/whatever 1
Domains:
Knowledge to Knowledge Devotion, War Domain, Sun Domain, Planning as bonus domain, Travel to Travel Domain, Magic, Oracle.

Full Plate, Animated Tower Shield, Armored Evasion and some other nice stuff added

Why don't you like being large? You get more strength and more Con, as well as a higher damage die, it is definitely worth it for an archer. Also you can scribe more runes on your armour.
But yeah, you could go Strongheart Halfling Half-Minotaur. Instead, or anything that grants track as a bonus feat really, I just took the Half-Minotaur because it was the best one I could think of.

Technically you can scrap the Animal Domain by the way, Substitute Domain will make you qualify, and once you qualify, Prestige Ranger qualifies for itself.

The feats you need aren't really that many, assuming you get track as a bonus feat, what you'll need is:
Rapid Shot + Endurance For Prestige Ranger, but he gives you Many-Shot at level 2 so he is sorta only 1 feat expenditure.
Scribe Rune for Runecaster.
The rest is either skill points or fluff-based, all of which are taken care of as class skills.
So in total you need 3 feats, at level 15 you will get 7+Flaws. All in all you'll have 6 open feats, of where two goes to upgrading Extend Spell to Persistent DMM. 1 Goes to Day & Night, and you still have three left. Probably for some more archery feats, possibly Zen Archery.

Divine Oracle is always a nice dip though, but I really would rather like to have a Prestige Ranger dip with all the archery spells from CoR than Human Paragon.

Last, why in the nine hells would you want Heavy Armour and Tower Shield Profiency? Are you really in need of yanking your AC up? If so I assume you are doing something wrong as the archer.
Logged

Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out
Bard
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
***
Posts: 198



« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2011, 05:39:25 AM »

That is actually a request for one of the players, he wanted a full-plate archer w/ animated shield.
About the being large issue... not all places are built with large creatures in mind and a 6 meters tall half minotaur archer crawling and squeezing in a corridor with a bow that doesn't even fit isn't exactly fun to play Big Grin
I'll see if can find something else that gives Track (or Endurance) for free and I'll try fitting Prestige Ranger in it... the ranger spells ARE good after all. Still not sure about the runecaster tho... the cleric would lose a lot of skill points with it compared to the Seeker and abusing a bunch of runes like that won't sit well with the DM, but on the other hand Runes can be used by everyone and a couple of Revivify/Heal/(insert utilty spell here) runes to toss around is a GOOD thing.
Stay tuned for version 3
Logged

His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
RacerX103
Monkey bussiness
*
Posts: 8



« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2011, 07:23:54 AM »

Quote
The last thing I tried... anyway was:
Cloistered Cleric 2/Human Paragon 3 (bonus stat, bonus feat, survival as class skill)/Seeker of the Misty Island 1/Radiant Servant of Dol Arrah 1/Divine Oracle 2/SotMI +1/Contemplative 1/SotMI +8/whatever 1

Just out of curiosity, maybe I'm missing something - how are you getting around the Elf or Half-Elf req on Seeker? I love the class, and it would be so much better without the Elf requirement.
Logged
Bard
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
***
Posts: 198



« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2011, 07:56:47 AM »

It's in the class description, adaptation chapter.
It says it can be used also for characters in a group of elite wanderers that want to start anew in their life or something along the lines, and in that case it loses the deity and race requirements.
Exactly in the same way I'm using the Radiant Servant of Pelor with a deity from Eberron Grin
Plus I'm the DM Grin
Logged

His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
Faithless tbe Wonder Boy
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
***
Posts: 163


« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2011, 12:21:41 AM »

Seconding the bard as an option.  Healing Hymn (Complete Champion p47) in place of Fascinate easily covers healing, if that's your schtick.  Bardic Knack + Knowledge Devotion + Inspire Courage means that he'll do pretty decent ranged damage out of the box.  Full plate + animated shield won't necessarily work, unfortunately, but then again a cloistered cleric couldn't pull that off either.

Also, a Divine, Savage bard easily qualifies for Prestige Ranger.
Logged
ninjarabbit
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1442



« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2011, 01:35:00 AM »

I'll keep it simple and effective:

Elf cloistered cleric5/divine oracle10 of Labelas Enoreth ECL 15

Domains: elf, time, oracle (from Divine oracle)
ACF: spontaneous domain: time

Feats:
1-point blank shot (elf domain), improved initative (time domain), knowledge devotion (traded knowledge domain), precise shot
3-skill focus: knowledge (religion)
6-zen archery
9-rapid shot
12-quicken spell
15-DMM: quicken spell
Logged
Bard
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
***
Posts: 198



« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2011, 01:45:15 AM »

Seconding the bard as an option.  Healing Hymn (Complete Champion p47) in place of Fascinate easily covers healing, if that's your schtick.  Bardic Knack + Knowledge Devotion + Inspire Courage means that he'll do pretty decent ranged damage out of the box.  Full plate + animated shield won't necessarily work, unfortunately, but then again a cloistered cleric couldn't pull that off either.

Also, a Divine, Savage bard easily qualifies for Prestige Ranger.
Add Lyric Thaumaturge, 2 levels of Seeker of the Song and Dragonfire Inspiration and you get the first (now dead) healer/buffer/archer of our current campaign
Logged

His old DM was on crack. He could take levels in freaking Dread Necromancer if he wanted to and no rule in the universe would keep him from doing so.
Rule 0?
Which, I guess, would be 'no rule,' since none = 0.
What's funny is he always brings up Rule 0. I actually had to ask him what that was, and without blinking an eye he gave me the most detailed explanation I'd ever heard for a rule. It was like he was in a trance when he spoke. Looking it up, it just said "The unspoken DM gets final say/veto anything he wants rule."
You're such a kind man, for taking in abused unfortunates and rehabilitating them.
Pages: 1
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!