Author Topic: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build  (Read 9803 times)

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2011, 08:09:02 PM »
Also, like others have said, if you completely abandon spellcasting and have no ability to pick up ToB, you're really not going to be that awesome at pretty much anything. 
Really? Even by just combining some of the ideas thrown out in this thread, you could have something like a dragonborn (for non-magical flight) warforged soul eater, combined with wildshape ranger + warshaper (for reach and tentacles), and tacking on as much other stuff to increase reach as possible. Then slap on Stand Still. I think the touch attacks from Stand Still could still deliver negative levels, even though the damage is dropped.

So you'll be a soul-sucking draconic robot with tentacles, thematically. Mechanically, you'll be doing battle-field control + debuffs, and you'll have decent mobility + tons of immunities.

How is that not awesome? It might not rival the versatility of a full caster, but so what? The guy doesn't want to play a caster. So stop fkn telling him to play a caster. Telling him to play a caster over and over again is not being helpful. It's being a dick. I know how to optimize the shit out of stuff when I feel like it, and I don't always play casters. Sometimes I just don't want to.
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sirpercival

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2011, 08:20:37 PM »
Also, like others have said, if you completely abandon spellcasting and have no ability to pick up ToB, you're really not going to be that awesome at pretty much anything. 
Really? Even by just combining some of the ideas thrown out in this thread, you could have something like a dragonborn (for non-magical flight) warforged soul eater, combined with wildshape ranger + warshaper (for reach and tentacles), and tacking on as much other stuff to increase reach as possible. Then slap on Stand Still. I think the touch attacks from Stand Still could still deliver negative levels, even though the damage is dropped.

So you'll be a soul-sucking draconic robot with tentacles, thematically. Mechanically, you'll be doing battle-field control + debuffs, and you'll have decent mobility + tons of immunities.

How is that not awesome? It might not rival the versatility of a full caster, but so what? The guy doesn't want to play a caster. So stop fkn telling him to play a caster. Telling him to play a caster over and over again is not being helpful. It's being a dick. I know how to optimize the shit out of stuff when I feel like it, and I don't always play casters. Sometimes I just don't want to.

Seriously, Legion is not a caster and is majorly awesome.

Binders rule.
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Jackinthegreen

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2011, 08:27:53 PM »
Binders still have a pretty heavy magic flavor, but at least they don't have as much paperwork as most casters.

To get the most out of non-magical binding, one needs to maximize Use Rope.   :ninja

I could have sworn there was a PrC that allowed tying someone up while grappling them or something.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2011, 08:28:33 PM »
I could have sworn there was a PrC that allowed tying someone up while grappling them or something.
Justicar, IIRC.
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Jackinthegreen

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2011, 08:57:19 PM »
I could have sworn there was a PrC that allowed tying someone up while grappling them or something.
Justicar, IIRC.

Once again, spelling becomes annoying on this.  Justicar was originally in Dragon 280, but got reprinted in Complete Warrior as Justiciar.  Notice the extra "i"?  Yeah, kinda wish they'd work on that.

Kind of funny that the Bloodhound picture shows the captive tied up, while a Justiciar's picture only shows the character on his own.

Tr011

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2011, 08:57:28 PM »
Notice the first comment after the OP.
"How to Optimize Grapple.

Step 1: Don't Grapple.
Step 2: Srsly, don't Grapple."
Grapple + Fling Enemy (Savage Species Feat) = Epic Win. I once played a Barbarian-Style Bloodstorm-Blade with it (and with Improved Grab) and it rocked. You can get it online at ~lvl 6 and it deals often 20d6. IMO it's a nice trick, but as with other mundane tricks, it shouldn't be the only one you got (and it wasn't the only one for my char).
FoM can be online at level 5.  Oh, and if you're facing enemies significantly larger than you are, this just doesn't work.
Obviously it worked for him. What "works" vs. "doesn't work" is very DM dependent. If the DM isn't an optimizer and/or out to screw you over, lots of stuff can "work" at that level.

And he said "don't make it a 1-trick pony". As long as you stick to that rule, using things that are easily shut down is fine...

I doubt he wants to play a spirit shaman. He said he doesn't want spells, didn't he?
The player likes playing melee types and doesn't like keeping track of spells.
Spirit Shaman has 11 spells at level 8, and is REALLY good at not dying.  Also, like others have said, if you completely abandon spellcasting and have no ability to pick up ToB, you're really not going to be that awesome at pretty much anything.  Spirit Shaman has the fewest moving parts to keep track of out of all the spellcasters, too.
Psionics are pretty easy, too. Especially Psychic Warriors with 8 diffrent powers at lvl 8 and some power points/day

X-Codes

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2011, 09:11:44 PM »
Also, like others have said, if you completely abandon spellcasting and have no ability to pick up ToB, you're really not going to be that awesome at pretty much anything. 
Really? Even by just combining some of the ideas thrown out in this thread, you could have something like a dragonborn (for non-magical flight) warforged soul eater, combined with wildshape ranger + warshaper (for reach and tentacles), and tacking on as much other stuff to increase reach as possible. Then slap on Stand Still. I think the touch attacks from Stand Still could still deliver negative levels, even though the damage is dropped.

So you'll be a soul-sucking draconic robot with tentacles, thematically. Mechanically, you'll be doing battle-field control + debuffs, and you'll have decent mobility + tons of immunities.

How is that not awesome? It might not rival the versatility of a full caster, but so what? The guy doesn't want to play a caster. So stop fkn telling him to play a caster. Telling him to play a caster over and over again is not being helpful. It's being a dick. I know how to optimize the shit out of stuff when I feel like it, and I don't always play casters. Sometimes I just don't want to.

Seriously, Legion is not a caster and is majorly awesome.

Binders rule.
An 8th level binder has more vestiges than a Spirit Shaman has spells.  Hell, at 8th level there are some classes that have more class features than a Spirit Shaman has spells.

Also, the guy didn't say that he didn't want to play a "fkn" caster, he said he wants to be a melee type that doesn't like keeping track of spells.  Well, my suggestion was a melee type with not a lot of spells to keep track of.  Perfectly fkn in line with the OP's request, with the extra bonus of being stupidly hard to kill (which might be a concern given that this guy's character JUST died, and the role this guy wants to take up likewise benefits from a certain level of durability).

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2011, 11:54:11 PM »
Meleeficer, Tier 1 and no "spells" to keep track of.   :smirk
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Noliar

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2011, 01:31:56 AM »
Meleeficer, Tier 1 and no "spells" to keep track of.   :smirk
I'd play that, no way he would.
I only put shapeshift druid in my build because wildshape ranger is so crap - same HD, poor will save, small and medium creatures only, loses the combat abilities and is a spellcaster anyway. If the build was for me the totemist levels would be on the "combat" side and Druid 20 on the other.

He could also qualify for war hulk quite easily. Unfortunately soul eater has a knowledge requirement so he can't be a soul eating warhulk (though I suppose he could be a soul eater when medium- and a war hulk when large :twitch )

Unbeliever

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2011, 02:22:14 AM »
I feel like the OP is making this more complicated than it needs to be.  There are tons of competent melee character builds that can hang with what you guys have in play already suggested here.  I don't know why you need Soul Eater + War Hulk, for example.  Totemist + Soul Eater + Improved Energy Drain is quite tough.  Throw in some Stand Still for lockdown and there you go (or tripping or grappling, as I believe Totemists are good at).  Incarnum is pretty straightforward, kind of a build your own LA approach. 

I personally might combine that with Paladin variants or Hexblade and even something like Travel Devotion + Fearsome Armor + Imperious Command for another means of locking things down and b/c I like never failing saving throws.  Whatever you throw on the B-side, he'll certainly be able to keep up and requires absolutely no spellcasting and no TOB. 

There are other very good approaches as well.  It might almost be easier if the player could give us an idea of style -- "savage brute" or "knight in charred black plate" or whatever -- and then have us build to taste. 

Noliar

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2011, 08:41:10 PM »
How about this?

Champion of the Black Court
Unseelie Fey Changeling CE    
Str 13+1 (18), Dex 12, Con 13+1 (18), Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18

Lion Totem Barbarian 1//Paladin of Slaughter 1
LTB 1/ Hexblade 1//PoS 2
LTB 1/ Hb 2//PoS 2 Totemist 1
LTB 1/ Hb 3// PoS 2 Tot 2
LTB 1/ Hb 3/ Fighter 1// PoS 2/ Tot2/ Warshaper 1
LTB 1/ Hb 3/ Ftr 2// PoS 2/ Tot2/ Wsh 2
LTB 1/ Hb 3/ Ftr 2/ Zhentarim Fighter // PoS 2/ Tot2/ Wsh 3
LTB 1/ Hb 3/ Ftr 2/ ZhFtr/ Ftr +1 // PoS 2/ Tot2/ Wsh 4

Feats: Alertness, Extra rage, Shaky [flaw], agressive [trait], abrasive [trait]
Intimidating rage
(F1) WF: claws
Imperious Command, (F2) Power attack
(ZF) skill focus: intimidate
(F3) WS: Claws

Skills: Intimidate 11 ranks +27, never outnumbered skill trick 2
Bluff 5 ranks +9
knowlege arcana 2 ranks +2
14 ranks open

So at level 8 we have:
move 30, fly 60 (average)
low light vision
Defensive HP 44+7d10, Fort +18 (+22 v spells), Ref +8 (+12 v spells), Will +8 (+12 v spells +14 v sleep and charm) and mettle
DR 10/cold iron, iron vulnerability vernal touch to remove conditions
immunity to crits, fast heal 2
All armour proficiencies, soulmelds,
Offensive claw +13/+8 d6+6 and 3 claws +8 d6+4 boostable with essentia and morphic weapons +7 d4+2
+5 foot sudden reach
pounce, rage
can demoralize multiple enemies to cowering for duration of rage
hexblade curse 1/day DC 16
vernal touch to tun undead
simple and martial weapon poficiencies, soulmelds
Utility Minor shape change, social skill bonuses

Progress:
(zhent)Fighter +6/ PoS +1/ Barbarian 5*//Soul eater 10/ X2**
Feats to include weapon mastery: piercing and bonus essentia
*there must be something better than this
**any ideas?

Yes I am using a template that takes str and con penalties for a melee build :o More ways to apply Cha to combat would be helpful.
Are there any RAW items of ironguard or rusting armours?


« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 09:43:04 PM by Noliar »

Noliar

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2011, 09:25:35 PM »
Or even more basic:

Big Bob Threetotems

Goliath
Str 20+1 (31 raging), Dex 12, Con 18 (22 raging), Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8

Goliath LA 1
GLA 1/ Barbarian (Lion Totem, Mountain Rage)1//GLA 1/ Scout 1
GLA 1/ Barb (wolf totem)2//GLA 1/ Sct 1/ Ftr 1
GLA 1/ Barb 3//GLA 1/ Sct 1/ Ftr (dungeoncrusher)2
GLA 1/ Barb 4//GLA 1/ Sct 1/ Ftr (Zhent)3
GLA 1/ Barb (Goliath RSL)5//GLA 1/ Sct 1/ Ftr 4
GLA 1/ Barb 5/ War Hulk 1//GLA 1/ Sct 1/ Ftr (zhent)5
GLA 1/ Barb 5/ War Hulk 2//GLA 1/ Sct 1/ Ftr (Dungeoncrusher 2)6

Feats: EWP spiked chain, power attack, [shaky flaw]
Cleave
Extra Rage
SF: intimidate
Improved Bull Rush
Knockback or Shock Trooper

I'm sure you guys can spice this up