Author Topic: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build  (Read 9964 times)

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Noliar

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Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« on: October 26, 2011, 01:02:31 AM »
Hi all,

One of the PC in my current game has just bit the dust and I'd like your advice on a replacement.

8th level gestalt game, 32 pt buy, Forgotten Realms setting based out of Waterdeep, no ToB, evil party tho alignment doesn't really apply to mortals unless they are trying, Taint and action dice in play.

We currently have a Dread Necromancer//Cleric of Velsharoon collecting undeads, Necromancer Wizard//Cleric (?cloistered) of Shar summoning, debuffing, spying and knowing secret shit and me - a Black Dragon Shaman 6/ Human Paragon 2//Rogue 1/warlock 5/Mindbender 1/incarnate 1 buffing, zapping and social fu-ing. While we are hardly harmless in melee I think you'll agree that a dedicated doer of violence (who is better at it than the deceased) that doesn't have to be parked in the graveyard would be welcome. We could also use a PC traps and locks person although we do have NPC options there.

The player likes playing melee types and doesn't like keeping track of spells.

sirpercival

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2011, 01:19:41 AM »
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JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2011, 01:21:56 AM »
BinderX, Knight of the sacred sealX // wildshape rangerX, master of many formsX

If he can get divine minion thats self healing all day as a free action
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sirpercival

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2011, 01:40:36 AM »
BinderX, Knight of the sacred sealX // wildshape rangerX, master of many formsX

If he can get divine minion thats self healing all day as a free action

This is a better idea than mine.
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2011, 01:45:38 AM »
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X-Codes

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2011, 03:26:46 AM »
I've been looking back at the Knight and realized that it is, in fact, kinda awesome...  Not REALLY awesome, just kinda awesome.  Maybe go with a Knight | Spirit Shaman, just for fun?  Spirit Shaman runs off the Druid spell list, which just so happens to have the Scimitar of Sand spell.  Scimitar of Sand is a nifty, little lightsaber that fatigues on a hit (although it may not make creatures exhausted), and the save DC is going to be based on your Charisma.  Furthermore, Knights gain the ability to make their threatened area into Difficult Terrain, which is really nasty combined with Reach.

Also, since you're dealing with all these undead... no doubt Chastize Spirits will help keep them in line.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2011, 05:27:48 AM »
@Master Of Many Forms is second only to Leadership types in paperwork. If he doesn't want to take care of a spell list, he can't handle MoMF.
@No spells, no ToB means this character will far behind the party FAST. Especially if he wants to keep it simple.

Rebel7284

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2011, 08:13:40 AM »
No TOB really hurts tanking as Crusader is perhaps the optimal tank.

Would the player be OK with having a few psionic powers?

Stony Elan (Mineral Warrior template)

LA 1/Anything with a large HD 7 // Elan 8

This gives DR 8/Adamantine, improved Elan Resiliance to spend power points to prevent damage and then the Vigor/Share Pain combo to minimize any damage that does get through.  Fun to get into your enemy's faces with abilities like that.
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Tr011

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2011, 11:04:53 AM »
+1 for Rebel7284, Elan+some tanky mundane class would rock.

Another thing could be this:
Half-minotaur//Barbarian (get some ACF here, i.e. Pounce and Whirling Frenzy)
Mineral Warrior//Fighter (maybe get that Drowish Hit&Run ACF for +ini)
Feat Rogue//Ranger (with Arcane Hunter from CM)
Feat Rogue//Ranger
Monk (get some ACF here, too)//Fist of the Forest
Ranger//Warshaper
Warshaper//Fist of the Forest
Warshaper//Fist of the Forest

You get 12+4d10+3d8 HP, Endurance (needed for Steadfast Domination from PHB2), Track and Scent, Con to AC, 3 free Feats, Combat Style, Evasion, immunity to Crits and precision damage, uncanny dodge and pretty high saves. Also some natural attacks and Improved Unarmed Strike damage. The stat boosts are nice and that DR from Mineral Warrior is needed. Also Changelings do have some nice utility with their shapeshifting ability. Remember that you need Great Fortitude and Power Attack for Fist of the Forest. Oh, and you get +20ft. movement speed (+10 from Ranger and stacking +10 from Fist of the Forest).

//edit: it's 4 free bonus feats from classes, because Monk with ACFs can get any fighter feat.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 11:06:27 AM by Tr011 »

Noliar

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2011, 03:32:52 PM »
Sadly, LA goes down both sides of the gestalt in this game, haven't had a ruling on racial HD.
I was thinking something along the lines of changeling lion totem whirling frenzy ACF barbarian/ fighter/warshaper down one side and some totemist for more claws down the other but I've just been looking at the totemist soulbind list and the redundancy in abilities is terrible - all natural attacks require a totem bind, unbound it's nearly all just skill boosts so a 2 level dip would be plenty. Can normal melee/ natural attacks carry the cold effects of Winter Mask?

I'd like to ditch changeling if another good source of shapechanging could be suggested - a non humanoid race would open up Soul Eater  :smirk. Where is the shapechange variant druid from? when does the wildshape ranger start getting wildshape?

bearsarebrown

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2011, 03:57:42 PM »
Warforged make hilarious Soul Eaters.

Noliar

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2011, 06:55:16 PM »
How about this:

Duskling (fey)  
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 18+2, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10
Druid (PHB II shapeshift variant)3, Totemist 2, Druid +3// Barbarian (CC lion totem, SRD Whirling frenzy)2, Fighter 2, Warshaper 4
Feats: Extra Rage, improved initiative
Cobalt Rage
Bonus Essentia
Multiattack (F)
WF claws (F)
Abrasive [trait]
Agressive [trait]
Shaky [flaw]

HP 52 +d12+2d10+4d8
fort +16, Ref +5, Will +7
BAB +8
Best full attack: Primary claw +17/+17 d6+12 and 3 claws +15 d6 +8 and bite +12 d8+6 and gore +12 d4+6 and 2 tentacles +12 d4+6 and tail sting +12 d4+6
That is with 2 essntia each in cobalt rage and girrallon claws.

progressing druid +2/ barbarian or fighter 10//Soul Eater 10/ xx
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 07:01:51 PM by Noliar »

Jackinthegreen

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2011, 07:35:58 PM »
Sadly, LA goes down both sides of the gestalt in this game, haven't had a ruling on racial HD.
I was thinking something along the lines of changeling lion totem whirling frenzy ACF barbarian/ fighter/warshaper down one side and some totemist for more claws down the other but I've just been looking at the totemist soulbind list and the redundancy in abilities is terrible - all natural attacks require a totem bind, unbound it's nearly all just skill boosts so a 2 level dip would be plenty. Can normal melee/ natural attacks carry the cold effects of Winter Mask?

I'd like to ditch changeling if another good source of shapechanging could be suggested - a non humanoid race would open up Soul Eater  :smirk. Where is the shapechange variant druid from? when does the wildshape ranger start getting wildshape?

Wild Shape Ranger can be found at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger.

I'm not sure if this is it, but the Shapeshifter Druid variant is found in the PHB2.

Noliar

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2011, 12:37:50 AM »
Just read the grapple guide and black blood cultist looks like a possible alternative to completing soul eater.

thoughts?

Jackinthegreen

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2011, 02:43:20 AM »
Just read the grapple guide and black blood cultist looks like a possible alternative to completing soul eater.

thoughts?

Notice the first comment after the OP.
"How to Optimize Grapple.

Step 1: Don't Grapple.
Step 2: Srsly, don't Grapple."

Grappling characters are difficult to work with, plain and simple.  I suppose it could work to maybe shut down the BBEG, but there are better abilities than grappling to do that.

If you want to play as a tank, you'll want to make sure you can deny actions on more than one foe at the same time.  Grappling doesn't usually lend itself to that.

Speaking of denying actions, http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12015.0 is hella fun.

Tr011

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2011, 12:49:46 PM »
Notice the first comment after the OP.
"How to Optimize Grapple.

Step 1: Don't Grapple.
Step 2: Srsly, don't Grapple."
Grapple + Fling Enemy (Savage Species Feat) = Epic Win. I once played a Barbarian-Style Bloodstorm-Blade with it (and with Improved Grab) and it rocked. You can get it online at ~lvl 6 and it deals often 20d6. IMO it's a nice trick, but as with other mundane tricks, it shouldn't be the only one you got (and it wasn't the only one for my char).

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2011, 04:23:12 PM »
Notice the first comment after the OP.
"How to Optimize Grapple.

Step 1: Don't Grapple.
Step 2: Srsly, don't Grapple."
Grapple + Fling Enemy (Savage Species Feat) = Epic Win. I once played a Barbarian-Style Bloodstorm-Blade with it (and with Improved Grab) and it rocked. You can get it online at ~lvl 6 and it deals often 20d6. IMO it's a nice trick, but as with other mundane tricks, it shouldn't be the only one you got (and it wasn't the only one for my char).
FoM can be online at level 5.  Oh, and if you're facing enemies significantly larger than you are, this just doesn't work.

I think you should take another look at the Knight/Spirit Shaman idea.  My "Awesome Spells" thread has been unearthing quite a few gems for Druids, even some stuff you normally wouldn't expect on the Druid list.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2011, 04:33:45 PM »
Notice the first comment after the OP.
"How to Optimize Grapple.

Step 1: Don't Grapple.
Step 2: Srsly, don't Grapple."
Grapple + Fling Enemy (Savage Species Feat) = Epic Win. I once played a Barbarian-Style Bloodstorm-Blade with it (and with Improved Grab) and it rocked. You can get it online at ~lvl 6 and it deals often 20d6. IMO it's a nice trick, but as with other mundane tricks, it shouldn't be the only one you got (and it wasn't the only one for my char).
FoM can be online at level 5.  Oh, and if you're facing enemies significantly larger than you are, this just doesn't work.
Obviously it worked for him. What "works" vs. "doesn't work" is very DM dependent. If the DM isn't an optimizer and/or out to screw you over, lots of stuff can "work" at that level.

And he said "don't make it a 1-trick pony". As long as you stick to that rule, using things that are easily shut down is fine...

I doubt he wants to play a spirit shaman. He said he doesn't want spells, didn't he?
The player likes playing melee types and doesn't like keeping track of spells.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2011, 05:49:38 PM »
Warforged  --  Warlock X/Hellfire 3 // Totemist 2+/Monk 2/Soul Eater 1/BBH X

With Grappling Blast from Dragon 358 which deals Eldritch Blast damage on every successful grapple check and grants a grapple bonus equal to half the damage to dealt with your Blast last round.

Warlock has a tiny bit of casting for utility but has next to no paperwork. An even cooler idea would be asking your DM to be nice and allow Grappling Blast and Hellfire Warlock to work with Dragon Fire Adept.

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Re: Suggestions for a gestalt tank build
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2011, 05:54:26 PM »
Notice the first comment after the OP.
"How to Optimize Grapple.

Step 1: Don't Grapple.
Step 2: Srsly, don't Grapple."
Grapple + Fling Enemy (Savage Species Feat) = Epic Win. I once played a Barbarian-Style Bloodstorm-Blade with it (and with Improved Grab) and it rocked. You can get it online at ~lvl 6 and it deals often 20d6. IMO it's a nice trick, but as with other mundane tricks, it shouldn't be the only one you got (and it wasn't the only one for my char).
FoM can be online at level 5.  Oh, and if you're facing enemies significantly larger than you are, this just doesn't work.
Obviously it worked for him. What "works" vs. "doesn't work" is very DM dependent. If the DM isn't an optimizer and/or out to screw you over, lots of stuff can "work" at that level.

And he said "don't make it a 1-trick pony". As long as you stick to that rule, using things that are easily shut down is fine...

I doubt he wants to play a spirit shaman. He said he doesn't want spells, didn't he?
The player likes playing melee types and doesn't like keeping track of spells.
Spirit Shaman has 11 spells at level 8, and is REALLY good at not dying.  Also, like others have said, if you completely abandon spellcasting and have no ability to pick up ToB, you're really not going to be that awesome at pretty much anything.  Spirit Shaman has the fewest moving parts to keep track of out of all the spellcasters, too.