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Author Topic: A crazy idea. 10x WBL table campaign. [Discussion on Relative Power]  (Read 9306 times)
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SorO_Lost
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« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2011, 10:07:46 PM »

I've seen someone do the calculations of an item that granted spellcasting as a level 20 sorcerer using the spell point variant. With 10x wealth, it should even be possible for fighters to keep such an item at-level from a fairly early point.
I think the item in question costed around 80% of normal level 20 WBL, so about 8% with this change.
16% for Sorcerer & Wizard? 32% with Druid and Cleric? 40% for Warmage too.

What does x10 wealth do? Makes you an x5 gestated character, with money to spare.
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Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
Lo77o
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« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2011, 10:12:40 PM »

I've seen someone do the calculations of an item that granted spellcasting as a level 20 sorcerer using the spell point variant. With 10x wealth, it should even be possible for fighters to keep such an item at-level from a fairly early point.
I think the item in question costed around 80% of normal level 20 WBL, so about 8% with this change.
16% for Sorcerer & Wizard? 32% with Druid and Cleric? 40% for Warmage too.

What does x10 wealth do? Makes you an x5 gestated character, with money to spare.

Why would it matter how many times your character has been gestated? Seems like being born just once should suffice.
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weenog
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« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2011, 10:14:14 PM »

I've seen someone do the calculations of an item that granted spellcasting as a level 20 sorcerer using the spell point variant. With 10x wealth, it should even be possible for fighters to keep such an item at-level from a fairly early point.
I think the item in question costed around 80% of normal level 20 WBL, so about 8% with this change.
16% for Sorcerer & Wizard? 32% with Druid and Cleric? 40% for Warmage too.

What does x10 wealth do? Makes you an x5 gestated character, with money to spare.

Why would it matter how many times your character has been gestated? Seems like being born just once should suffice.

Inheritance from five sets of rich parents?
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Lo77o
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« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2011, 10:23:53 PM »

I've seen someone do the calculations of an item that granted spellcasting as a level 20 sorcerer using the spell point variant. With 10x wealth, it should even be possible for fighters to keep such an item at-level from a fairly early point.
I think the item in question costed around 80% of normal level 20 WBL, so about 8% with this change.
16% for Sorcerer & Wizard? 32% with Druid and Cleric? 40% for Warmage too.

What does x10 wealth do? Makes you an x5 gestated character, with money to spare.

Why would it matter how many times your character has been gestated? Seems like being born just once should suffice.

Inheritance from five sets of rich parents?

That makes sense... 5 rich births gives 10 times the wealth of one normal birth.
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"Home is where you can find a decent graveyard and strangers can disappear without awkward questions." - Braids, Cabal Minion
weenog
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« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2011, 10:29:03 PM »

But Pelor help you if you're busy adventuring on Mother's Day and forget to call.
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Halinn
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« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2011, 11:07:24 PM »

But Pelor help you if you're busy adventuring on Mother's Day and forget to call.
I'd rather He didn't. Pelor tends to burn those He helps.
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awaken DM golem
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« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2011, 12:16:35 AM »

10x Gold is probably a decent point to discuss the run-of-the-mill Gold tricks.
Instead of having a gold loop going, you just get something vaguely reasonable.
(whether thrown at a dart board or not)

There's probably no reason at all to include a "tiers" discussion or non-discussion,
when something obviously TO-ish is at the base of this exercise (as per Enda's post).


1st level ... a normal Aristo + Mercantile feat + the little extras that have popped up = max gold.
So OK, you are that as a free gestalt ... and you get to buy all your stuff at the feat's 1/level price.
How many animals do you wanna buy for a Handle Animal herd trample ?
Too many?
That's just enough.


At 7th level, everybody should be wearing a Psychoactive Skin of Proteus ... and why not.
 Smile  Cleric
 Smile  Druid
 Smile  Wizard
 Smile  Divine Mind (what!) ... yeah rilly and why not 
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JaronK
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« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2011, 12:21:08 AM »

Perhaps a better version of this would be to give everyone the benefits of Vow of Poverty (except the Feats) with no restrictions, and maybe throw in a few other things (like a scaling bonus to AC based on your level and what armor type your class gets), and then allow normal WBL in addition... but you can't buy gear with an item level higher than your level (use MiCs rules for that).  Yeah, it's a bit WoWish, but it might help with what's being tried here without going insane.

JaronK
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awaken DM golem
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« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2011, 12:27:50 AM »


Oh yeah, that's easier to do
... and no gentleman's agreement about the max wbl % for one specific item.
Druids are rather happy with this arrangement.
And Monks. Oops sorry.



... without going insane ...


Don't try and change the topic  Wink
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JaronK
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« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2011, 12:53:31 AM »

Yeah, dunno what to do about Druids there, other than stare angrily at them.

JaronK
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Halinn
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« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2011, 01:20:13 AM »

Yeah, dunno what to do about Druids there, other than stare angrily at them.

JaronK

But that's standard operating procedure for druids, regardless of WBL. Force them to take shapeshift variant and trade away their animal companions? Ban the Natural Spell feat? Just give up and let them win?
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sirpercival
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« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2011, 01:42:45 AM »

Cry when they take the Wild Reaper variant and get DMM without a PrC.
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SorO_Lost
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I'll kill you before you're born.


« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2011, 01:49:02 AM »

Why would it matter how many times your character has been gestated? Seems like being born just once should suffice.
lol. Sometimes I have the best spellchecker fixes.
Logged

Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
Lycanthromancer
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« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2011, 01:53:03 AM »

Why would it matter how many times your character has been gestated? Seems like being born just once should suffice.
lol. Sometimes I have the best spellchecker fixes.
Some men spend their entire lives trying to get back in once they're out.

Lucky for me, I'm not one of them.
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SorO_Lost
Man in Gorilla Suit
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Posts: 2355


I'll kill you before you're born.


« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2011, 02:09:12 AM »

Why would it matter how many times your character has been gestated? Seems like being born just once should suffice.
lol. Sometimes I have the best spellchecker fixes.
Some men spend their entire lives trying to get back in once they're out.

Lucky for me, I'm not one of them.
It's not getting in that's the fun part. It's the journey there and back again.
Logged

Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
X-Codes
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« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2011, 02:55:57 AM »

I think the overall response to the OP is... this doesn't really change the power curve.  Sure, Fighters are totally screwed with out items, and Wizards are still gods with them, but that doesn't mean the Wizard can't do more with more cash on-hand.

As for a high wealth game... why?  Actually, I guess I rather like the idea of giving VoP bonuses on top of items, since then you get your static bonuses through VoP and your nifty stuff through items.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 02:57:42 AM by X-Codes » Logged

Bloody Initiate
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« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2011, 03:08:01 AM »

While 10x WBL doesn't appeal at all, I have repeatedly thought of a game where each character was allowed a "super power" like 40 strength or perhaps a lot more starting wealth, or an artifact at character creation. The players would get to choose, after I balanced the choices. I haven't done it though, because I haven't thought of or balanced all choices. It's hard to figure out how to make things balanced when you're dealing with entirely different abilities. Most superhero RPGs have the same problem.
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brujon
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« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2011, 03:25:01 AM »

While 10x WBL doesn't appeal at all, I have repeatedly thought of a game where each character was allowed a "super power" like 40 strength or perhaps a lot more starting wealth, or an artifact at character creation. The players would get to choose, after I balanced the choices. I haven't done it though, because I haven't thought of or balanced all choices. It's hard to figure out how to make things balanced when you're dealing with entirely different abilities. Most superhero RPGs have the same problem.

I did that once, but i did it differently. Instead of making up the powers myself, i let the players make up their superpowers, and then balanced the different powers against each other. It's nice because they integrate the flavor in the backstory they have in mind, and easier for you because you get a good idea whether they'll be balanced against each other taking in consideration what classes they'll play, what prestiges are they aiming at, etc...

Well, in my case, one spellcaster chose to have antimagic rays on both eyes (As Beholder), one fighter chose the ability to have a 20% chance (increasing with con, +2% per point) of ignoring any magic thrown at him (even those that don't allow SR), the cleric chose the ability to get full bab[Forever] and a feat every 4 levels, and the factotum chose the ability to get a "staredown" effect for 1 inspiration point (1d20 + Intimidate DC, enemy makes 1d20 + HD + Will), if the enemy fails, they were flat-footed for 1 round, +1 round for every 5 points they failed the DC.

The factotum got the weakest ability, IMO, but they were all happy with their abilities, and the 20% +2%xCON chance to ignore magic did wonders for the fighter. He actually ended up going grappler route, he'd charge and grapple enemy spellcasters, then pin them while the party mage fired up antimagic rays at the wizard. All the while, the cleric was going DPS'ing with fullcasting and the factotum making everyone go flatfooted and cowered, end then iaijutsuing everyone.

It was a fun game.
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weenog
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« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2011, 04:21:50 AM »

Are you nuts?!  Skill check (easily cranked up through the roof if you want to) or become flat-footed for a scaling length of time, based on how overwhelming the skill check was?  That might be the most powerful superpower in the bunch, the only thing keeping it from being a sure thing is it being based on a fear ability (which many things are immune to, directly or indirectly).  The cleric's full BAB + an extra feat every 4 levels is the weak link, there.  Cleric already has full BAB from 7th level onward, and feats don't mean a whole lot compared to full casting.
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dna1
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« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2011, 06:33:27 AM »

No.
You realize at WBL x10, in a first level game you could pull the wizard cheese: sell spell book etc.... Assuming that you do it before you begin play,
do I even need to go into this more?

EDIT: Your idea of Tiers is a little off.. why even include them in this topic?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 06:40:11 AM by dna1 » Logged

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