Author Topic: Quadratic Skills?  (Read 2981 times)

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lans

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Quadratic Skills?
« on: October 23, 2011, 10:32:41 PM »
I have a vague idea that I want to throw out their for input.

How would it change balance for various skill to get better with more ranks that you have in them?
For example a Jump check is normally 4 for every foot you go up. My change would make it so that if you have 10 ranks in it you would jump up 1/2 the check, equal to the check at 20, and 1.25x at 23 ranks.

Other skills would do other things.

Thoughts?
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veekie

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Re: Quadratic Skills?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2011, 12:51:02 AM »
Well, depends heavily on the skill in question. Jump is easily measurable and uncontested in nature, but potential jump applications are not. You use jump to traverse barriers, of which the sample case only deals with linear distance and lack of ground to use. You have other options like skipping around  obstacles, free running etc.
Then theres stealth, perception, and social skills, which are contested.
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It's also a little cold because of that.
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I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

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Endarire

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Re: Quadratic Skills?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2011, 01:40:10 AM »
Also, UMD.  Careful about Artificers.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

lans

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Re: Quadratic Skills?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 06:10:50 AM »
Hmm, so it should be good for things like Jump, Use Rope, Balance, Tumble, Climb, Swim, craft, heal

Bad for opposed checks like diplomacy, bluff, and skills that are already top tier like UMD?
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veekie

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Re: Quadratic Skills?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2011, 09:12:10 AM »
UMD could stand a similar treatment, you just open up using and knowing higher leveled types of magic items as you gain ranks, which weakens it in the sense that you need more than just a big mod, strenghtens in that natural scroll and wand using classes can use it to identify item purposes and use them in nonstandard ways.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

lans

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Re: Quadratic Skills?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 03:59:22 PM »
UMD could stand a similar treatment, you just open up using and knowing higher leveled types of magic items as you gain ranks, which weakens it in the sense that you need more than just a big mod, strenghtens in that natural scroll and wand using classes can use it to identify item purposes and use them in nonstandard ways.

So in order to use an ability with UMD you will need ranks equal to the caster level normally required to use said ability?

So a 1st level character could use second level spells, 2nd  could use 3rd, 4th could use 4th etc?

Maybe let them go beyond this but add a +5 modifier to the DC for each spell level beyond your normal capabilities.
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veekie

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Re: Quadratic Skills?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2011, 04:51:29 PM »
Something like that, thinking more like staggered hard caps(since if its a DC increase that'd be defeated eventually), like a Least/Lesser/Greater break.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

awaken DM golem

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Re: Quadratic Skills?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2011, 12:55:18 AM »
Jump is a 1st level spell, and not all that tasty.

Jump as a 2nd level spell ... "The Cow Jumped Over The Moon Quickly".
Immediate Action super Fly, but you have to land on this round.

Jump as a 3rd level spell ... "Why Did Neo Fail His First Jump".
Same as 2 above but you can land on a Monster, doing damage equal to Fireball.
Needs some fluff about controlling your landing better than Pele (the soccer dude).
Compare to Psi Pounce level 2 power.

etc ...

Jump as an 8th level spell ... "Prelude To The Hammer Of The Deity". (like thor)
Full round action disrupts the boundaries between Planes.
You Time Hop for 1 round via the Astral Plane.
One bbeg gets dumped there No Save and unable to take actions toward you (might be disorientation).
Where you left gets Thunder/Sonic damage Zone equal to Harm, and within Reach. Affects any Good guys too.
Land anywhere a Jump 1st level spell would let you.
Full Defense action when you land (yes it's an extra action).

lans

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Re: Quadratic Skills?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2011, 01:14:55 AM »
Something like that, thinking more like staggered hard caps(since if its a DC increase that'd be defeated eventually), like a Least/Lesser/Greater break.

I'm not sure I have a problem with it being broken, as long as its hard to do.

For healing I was thinking with 23 ranks being able to provide a days bed rest as either a minute or 1 round action.
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veekie

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Re: Quadratic Skills?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2011, 08:42:05 AM »
Too weak for healing, assuming you want skill ranks to be that valuable.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

lans

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Re: Quadratic Skills?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2011, 02:35:41 PM »
Well my first choice was to make jump checks 5x better, so I'm thinking that is inline with that.

 I'm not looking to make them spell powerful, or anything.

What if it also was able to remove afflictions like petrification, polymorph, energy drain, ability drain and could do a ressurection with a day of care?
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veekie

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Re: Quadratic Skills?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2011, 08:57:58 PM »
Would be a good idea, I think, though if they required time, the spells are naturally still far superior.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

awaken DM golem

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Re: Quadratic Skills?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2011, 12:03:26 AM »

Lets say Jump got improved so far as to be kinda like UMD, except it's Jump ...  :pout


Jump in-spite of Slow / Paralysis / baleful Poly something weird / Petrified
... would need a spell level scaling tag to it, perhaps like Spellcraft.
(this of course assumes Spellcraft is balanced, heh)
Extra Jump check to land not Prone. Facing of landing is random.

Feather Fall and Jump are linked in a few different books (idk - wasn't that interested).

4e Monk has lots (or too many) little variances on Jump + Attack subtleties.

Jump-plomancer doesn't have to be a CO inside Joke.
Jump could generate an Awe effect.
"Did you just see a Dwarf jump that Horse?  I don't believe my eyes."


veekie

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Re: Quadratic Skills?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2011, 10:52:49 AM »
For jumping, climbing, swimming, these feats of athleticism mainly grant these aspects:
-Distance moved, the most raw and direct one. What if high level jump is a feasible alternative to magical flight or teleportation as a means of travel?
-Obstacles overcome, you have a few. Water and its varying conditions are obstacles to movement that swim overcomes. Gravity, as well as physical obstructions are obstacles that climb and jump overcomes. The key is in bypassing such barriers to movement, and in the same stroke, reducing magnitude. Think free-running, the many buildings and obstacles in a city area do not provide much hinderance in terms of linear speed to the free-runner. A cinematic variation of this can be better than flight, by turning obstacles into movement vectors. In short, bypass or take advantage of cover and terrain with acrobatics.
-Hindrances overcome. Less spectacular, this just means continuing to act in spite of internal difficulties. Probably to be discouraged, since there has to be some point to inflicting internal difficulties after all.
-Battle assistance. Direct, tangible benefits to combat, like surprise, or enhanced damage, or even increased attack approaches. Also to be discouraged, due to overflow into other areas of the game. Keep skills in the problem solving realm where possible eh?
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."