Author Topic: Martial adept party  (Read 4753 times)

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hobbie

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Martial adept party
« on: October 23, 2011, 03:43:05 AM »
Do the effects of multiple martial adept stances, boosts and strikes stack? (I haven't seen anything to suggest that they don't)

Assuming they do, what would be the best all-adept party of 3 people? 1 each of crusader, warblade and swordsage? Or to leave out swordsage because no white raven?

Thanks!

veekie

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 04:37:48 AM »
Their effects do stack, but that is mostly irrelevant for stances and boosts, since they can't be used on others.

If you HAVE to go pure adept party, each one provides different things:
Crusader provides healing, but Swordsage or Warblade can pick up the stance and strike off martial study.
Swordsage has shadow jaunt, cloak of deception, broader skills and probably the only positive Wis mod. They can grab White Raven Tactics off martial study as well.
Warblade has effective AoE combat and straight out power, so it sorta works.

If you're running adept-only, you're going to need all three.
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hobbie

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 05:10:51 AM »
Great advice!

I guess i forgot to include the campaign context though, its more of 3 mercenary companions caught up in a large-scale (LoTR meet belgariad) epic war, so lotsa fighting big baddies and mass minions, commando missions, diplomacy etc, but fewer "Tomb of Horrors" dungeon crawls per se (If we ever embarked on these, we'd probably have access to hirelings or temporary NPCs). 

So the party concept is to create a lot of synergies through crusader/warblade stances and strikes (e.g. martial spirit, leading the charge, various flanking/swarming/move boosting maneuvers). Not sure if swordsage would be a good team player in this situation (I tend to see them as solitary ninjas)? Or maybe swordsage dips would be enough to cover the gaps?

 

Bloody Initiate

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2011, 06:23:43 AM »
There's a feat in one of the Eberron books (The same one with the 2handed sword PrC I think) called "Battlebred" that requires a BAB of +6 and allows you to enjoy morale bonuses for an extra 2 rounds. That sounds insignificant, but a lot of the white raven stuff is morale and if you get multiple people keying off of each other you can cycle party buffs.

There are also different combinations and strategies that martial adepts can adopt that other classes just don't do as well. With a couple well placed maneuvers you can just deny enemies most of their actions from as early as level 1. Martial adepts are also very good at sundering, unfortunately sundering isn't something to you want to do most of the time. Makes up for a lack of the rogue though. You can plow through a lot of doors and walls with a few mountain hammers.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 06:34:10 AM by Bloody Initiate »
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veekie

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2011, 09:06:11 AM »
Swordsages have Shadow Hand sneak attack, which works better with White Raven assisted movement(so your White Raven artists slides them into position and then they go Tiger Claw/Shadow Hand to finish the target off). They're also the party spotter and scout.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

hobbie

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2011, 09:32:28 AM »
Okay, i'm convinced now. Crusader as Battlefield controller and Healer, Warblade as Warrior General,  Swordsage as scout, spotter, sneak attacker etc

I was also rereading desert wind and I had totally forgotten about their cone of fire, fireballs, wall of fire effects, which would be totally devastating in a battlefield situation. Swordsage as rogue AND blaster...! 

now, if only they had a energy substitution feat for adepts....


veekie

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2011, 12:41:51 PM »
^^
As BFC goes, Desert Wind isn't all that hot, but when you don't have an alternative...
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2011, 05:33:01 PM »
Swordsages have Shadow Hand sneak attack, which works better with White Raven assisted movement(so your White Raven artists slides them into position and then they go Tiger Claw/Shadow Hand to finish the target off). They're also the party spotter and scout.

Swordsages also have the ability to identify magical arms and armor.  I think in a party w/o casters that could be fairly valuable...

Unbeliever

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2011, 06:19:47 PM »
I've found a Shadow Sun Ninja + unarmed Swordsage (or similar character) with boosted unarmed combat damage to be pretty effective at healing when it's needed.  Even easier if you're undead.  I actually think such a party would work fine.  The one thing you might be lacking is condition removal, so you might all want to nab Iron Heart Surge or perhaps a modified version of the Cadeucus Bracers or something similar. 

Bloody Initiate

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2011, 09:59:01 PM »
Here I'd assumed they'd ALL have Iron Heart Surge by one means or another. You just don't go without it...
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2011, 10:54:04 PM »
Novice Iron Heart vest FTW.

It's not like there's anything better to go in that body slot.
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JaronK

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2011, 09:36:40 PM »
You'd need some trapfinding... Factotum 8/Swordsage 12 would be solid for that, though you could do Factotum 3/Warblade 1/Swordsage 16 and make an interesting tripper if you want to be more martial adept heavy.

And of course Bloodline abuse would make it easy to be all three.

JaronK

weenog

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2011, 07:42:34 PM »
You'd need some trapfinding... Factotum 8/Swordsage 12 would be solid for that, though you could do Factotum 3/Warblade 1/Swordsage 16 and make an interesting tripper if you want to be more martial adept heavy.

And of course Bloodline abuse would make it easy to be all three.

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RobbyPants

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2011, 04:15:58 PM »
Warblade has effective AoE combat and straight out power, so it sorta works.
What sort of AoE are you talking about? Utilizing reach weapons, or what?
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Littha

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2011, 06:51:09 PM »
Warblade has effective AoE combat and straight out power, so it sorta works.
What sort of AoE are you talking about? Utilizing reach weapons, or what?

Actually thinking about it Warblade has the least AoE of the three classes... At least devoted spirit has Castigating Strike, I cant think of any warblade ones though. (that said I am away from my books atm)

RobbyPants

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2011, 09:21:12 PM »
Actually thinking about it Warblade has the least AoE of the three classes... At least devoted spirit has Castigating Strike, I cant think of any warblade ones though. (that said I am away from my books atm)
The only one that comes to mind for me is the level 7 line attack they get where they throw their weapon.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
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Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2011, 11:49:33 PM »
The Iron Heart AoEs in the form of mithril/adamant tornadoes and the line attack.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

RobbyPants

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Re: Martial adept party
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2011, 02:04:07 AM »
I forgot about the tornadoes.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]