Author Topic: Papyrus & Ink: A Player's Guide to Scrolls for the Aspiring Spell Scribe  (Read 19986 times)

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nijineko

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Re: Papyrus & Ink: A Player's Guide to Scrolls for the Aspiring Spell Scribe
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2011, 12:46:36 AM »
note that artificers explicitly have a caster level. if you have a wiz1/clr1/arti5, you could take practiced caster feat twice, once for wiz and once for clr, and your caster level in each becomes 5. thus your total caster level becomes 15 at 7th level. but as an artificer you get +2 caster level for casting scrolls, so for scrolls that would be 17th caster level.
Artificer do have caster level, however, they do not use their caster level for crafting. They have an entirely different score for crafting called "Effective Caster Level" which is not effected by their caster level at all. The +2 bonus is for determining what they can create but does not actually effect the resulting caster level of the item (if the item duplicates a spell effect). Theurgic Creationist does not work with effective caster level so if the person is using their artificer abilities to craft, they can not use Theurgic Creationist. If they use one of their other classes to craft then they use the artificer's caster level, not effective caster level. The only thing this really gets you while trying to craft as an artificer is early access to item creation feats (at the cost of two feats and two class levels).
Quote
note that scrolls crafted with artificer involved become non-arcane/non-divine scrolls. nobody but artificers can cast from them unless they succeed on an umd check.
Even artificers have to use UMD to cast from their own scrolls.

Edit: Sorry if that came off kinda harsh. I have a searing headache right now.

no problem at all. i have a friend i would like to point you at, however. =) i was quoting from him. i didn't see the bit about effective caster level... though that point might not phase or convince him. ^^

also i just noticed that in the infusion section it calls out that an artificer is not a spellcaster. which is also a strike against that idea...

*goes off to gitp forums to refute the concept...*
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stranglebat

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Re: Papyrus & Ink: A Player's Guide to Scrolls for the Aspiring Spell Scribe
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2011, 06:34:07 PM »
One idea i had for a small additional cost is scribing a scroll using a Geometer (CAr) spellglyph as the components for the spell basically Silent spell metamagic on the scroll for 25gp with no level increase.

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Re: Papyrus & Ink: A Player's Guide to Scrolls for the Aspiring Spell Scribe
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2011, 04:31:38 AM »
Exceptional/Extraordinary/Legendary/Magical Artisan {ECS/PGtF}
Reduce the crafting costs (Time/GP/XP) for crafting Items. Extraordinary and Legendary are both necessary for reaching 100% cost reduction before epic levels. Exceptional is not all that useful sense Scroll can be made quite quickly anyway (only useful for Scrolls with six 9th Level spells, for example), but the reduction is not much. Magical Artisan applies to a specific Crafting Feat and applies to all costs, great for Wizards which normally only have Scribe Scroll anyways, but do not it does not directly stack with the other Artisan Feats or USs Master Scribe ability (though you do get to calculate cost reduction of 75% the normal cost of the item). Useful at lower levels but should be retrained once you hit 100% efficiency.
Cost reductions do not add together since cost is a real world value and thus you use real world math (not dnd math). As a result, you can never craft for nothing (except in specific circumstances where it says to subtract a specific amount of gold). For example two reduction of 25% do not result in you crafting for 50% of the price, they result in you crafting for 56.25% of the price (100-0.25*100=75, 75-0.25*75=56.25)

Edit: For advice on crafting cheaply see my handbook (link in my sig).

Master Scribe specifically states it stacks with Extraordinary and Legendary Artisan though. It even shows an example of a 5th level Unbound Scroll with Legendary Artisan crafts scrolls with a 50% reduction to XP cost.
So a character with effectively 13 levels in Unbound Scroll and the two Artisan Feats has 100% XP and GP efficiency in crafting scrolls (the last 10% comes from the resources section of Unbound Scroll which states it has an additional 10% reduction of crafting which stacks with Artisan and Master), unless there is something I am missing.

EDIT:
Yeah I have taken a look at your Guide, which helped me find the Quill of Scribing which is just great.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 04:42:49 AM by TC X0 Lt 0X »
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Bastian

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Re: Papyrus & Ink: A Player's Guide to Scrolls for the Aspiring Spell Scribe
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2011, 01:13:50 PM »
Exceptional/Extraordinary/Legendary/Magical Artisan {ECS/PGtF}
Reduce the crafting costs (Time/GP/XP) for crafting Items. Extraordinary and Legendary are both necessary for reaching 100% cost reduction before epic levels. Exceptional is not all that useful sense Scroll can be made quite quickly anyway (only useful for Scrolls with six 9th Level spells, for example), but the reduction is not much. Magical Artisan applies to a specific Crafting Feat and applies to all costs, great for Wizards which normally only have Scribe Scroll anyways, but do not it does not directly stack with the other Artisan Feats or USs Master Scribe ability (though you do get to calculate cost reduction of 75% the normal cost of the item). Useful at lower levels but should be retrained once you hit 100% efficiency.
Cost reductions do not add together since cost is a real world value and thus you use real world math (not dnd math). As a result, you can never craft for nothing (except in specific circumstances where it says to subtract a specific amount of gold). For example two reduction of 25% do not result in you crafting for 50% of the price, they result in you crafting for 56.25% of the price (100-0.25*100=75, 75-0.25*75=56.25)

Edit: For advice on crafting cheaply see my handbook (link in my sig).

Master Scribe specifically states it stacks with Extraordinary and Legendary Artisan though. It even shows an example of a 5th level Unbound Scroll with Legendary Artisan crafts scrolls with a 50% reduction to XP cost.
So a character with effectively 13 levels in Unbound Scroll and the two Artisan Feats has 100% XP and GP efficiency in crafting scrolls (the last 10% comes from the resources section of Unbound Scroll which states it has an additional 10% reduction of crafting which stacks with Artisan and Master), unless there is something I am missing.

EDIT:
Yeah I have taken a look at your Guide, which helped me find the Quill of Scribing which is just great.
Could you provide quotes for those? I do not have the book and would like to see the RAW wording.

Mooncrow

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Re: Papyrus & Ink: A Player's Guide to Scrolls for the Aspiring Spell Scribe
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2011, 02:14:14 PM »
"Master Scribe(ex): When you use Scribe Scroll, reduce the gp and XP costs by 5% for each level in this class.  These bonuses stack with those of Legendary Artisan and Extraordinary Artisan, so that a 5th level Unbound Scroll with the Legendary Artisan feat reduces the XP cost of scroll creation by 50%."  

Bastian

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Re: Papyrus & Ink: A Player's Guide to Scrolls for the Aspiring Spell Scribe
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2011, 03:24:10 PM »
"Master Scribe(ex): When you use Scribe Scroll, reduce the gp and XP costs by 5% for each level in this class.  These bonuses stack with those of Legendary Artisan and Extraordinary Artisan, so that a 5th level Unbound Scroll with the Legendary Artisan feat reduces the XP cost of scroll creation by 50%."  
Excellent, I will add that to my handbook

TC X0 Lt 0X: If the 10% says the same thing, then that is a perfectly valid way to craft scrolls for free. Awsome find. You might want to make it a little clearer that the stacking by adding together is a specific ability of this class feature and that usually you would stack by doing the reductions one at a time.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 03:30:25 PM by Bastian »

sirpercival

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Re: Papyrus & Ink: A Player's Guide to Scrolls for the Aspiring Spell Scribe
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2011, 05:36:47 PM »
Another note for the Binder entry -- if you can bind Zceryll as well as Astaroth, your summoned monsters can contribute spells for you via their SLA's and Su's.  So you don't HAVE to be an anima mage (though why wouldn't you want to?  :D).
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Re: Papyrus & Ink: A Player's Guide to Scrolls for the Aspiring Spell Scribe
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2011, 11:50:07 PM »
"Master Scribe(ex): When you use Scribe Scroll, reduce the gp and XP costs by 5% for each level in this class.  These bonuses stack with those of Legendary Artisan and Extraordinary Artisan, so that a 5th level Unbound Scroll with the Legendary Artisan feat reduces the XP cost of scroll creation by 50%."  
Excellent, I will add that to my handbook

TC X0 Lt 0X: If the 10% says the same thing, then that is a perfectly valid way to craft scrolls for free. Awsome find. You might want to make it a little clearer that the stacking by adding together is a specific ability of this class feature and that usually you would stack by doing the reductions one at a time.

Thank You, I try my best.
I'll make sure to make it clear in the guide.

Another note for the Binder entry -- if you can bind Zceryll as well as Astaroth, your summoned monsters can contribute spells for you via their SLA's and Su's.  So you don't HAVE to be an anima mage (though why wouldn't you want to?  :D).

Yes I will make sure to add this.
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Re: Papyrus & Ink: A Player's Guide to Scrolls for the Aspiring Spell Scribe
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2011, 04:32:02 PM »
The Residual Metamagic feat would allow you to treat a spell cast from a scroll as one you cast yourself for purposes of caster level and DC, and since you are applying metamagic on the fly to your scrolls and you should be able to use the second portion of Residual Metamagic to double dip on the metamagic.
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