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Author Topic: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!  (Read 18337 times)
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Shadowhunter
Hong Kong
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Posts: 1003



« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2011, 09:55:25 PM »

I like it. I like it a lot. If you can't fit in the Quasi-Lycanthrope template, you could always get DR 4/Silver through Greater Shifter Defense (needs 4 other Shifter feats, one of which is Shifter Defense).

Shifters are really attractive in E6 since you can actually afford all those Shifter feats. It's so much fun Smile

Oh and one thing I think E6 has got going for it is that the skill system hasn't completely broken down yet.
Which makes classes that focus on having lots of skills better.

Have a bookmarked post that McPoyo did back a year ago, a quote from someone on 339 regarding skills:
http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9375.msg316582;topicseen#msg316582
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Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  Smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.
dark_samuari
Hong Kong
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Posts: 1024


« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2011, 10:06:08 PM »

I like it. I like it a lot. If you can't fit in the Quasi-Lycanthrope template, you could always get DR 4/Silver through Greater Shifter Defense (needs 4 other Shifter feats, one of which is Shifter Defense).

Shifters are really attractive in E6 since you can actually afford all those Shifter feats. It's so much fun Smile

Oh and one thing I think E6 has got going for it is that the skill system hasn't completely broken down yet.
Which makes classes that focus on having lots of skills better.

Have a bookmarked post that McPoyo did back a year ago, a quote from someone on 339 regarding skills:
http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9375.msg316582;topicseen#msg316582


Oh yeah, but even with skills you can always pick up the Open-Minded feat which actually works tremendously better in E6.

I think I may start shifting all my games towards E6 or E8...
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dark_samuari
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Posts: 1024


« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2011, 05:23:18 AM »

So I am beginning construction on a fully stated out Wolverine within E6 and my lord... There are so many solid feats. The fact that he has access to pretty much every tactical feat enhances the fact that a character like him could have trained in almost every discipline of martial combat.

It should be a fun experience (even if I do end up utilizing 30+ feats).
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Ikeren
That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
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Posts: 224


« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2011, 08:27:26 AM »

If you go White Dragonspawn Kobold Loredrake, you can get 5th level spells in a universe full of casters limited to 3rd and 4th level spells. That's a little cheesy, though.
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Empirate
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
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Posts: 200


« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2011, 12:53:58 PM »

Crafting is capped just as harshly as spellcasting.  You can't craft an item with a higher CL requirement than your own CL.

Just a nitpick, but Artificers can craft at +2 CL. That opens up a whole new level of spells.

I don't think so. In E6, 4th+ level spells simply don't exist. Spell lists for full casters end at 3rd level. Your Artificer could craft items that list CL 7 or 8 as prereq though, if no actual 4th level spell was called for.
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Shadowhunter
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« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2011, 10:17:29 PM »

Speaking of tossing around ideas...
Here's a convoluted build I just made up. It doesn't really get anywhere until you have amassed a bunch of feats, but maybe someone will like it:

Human/Azurin/Strongheart Halfling Warblade 1/Exoticist or Targeteer 2/Full BAB 1/Bloodstorm Blade 1/Master Thrower 1.

Ok, you're feat-strapped something fierce.

You have 3 regular feats and 3 bonus feats. The 6th level feat is going to be Brutal Throw.
You need Favored and Primary Contact (Gladiatorial Stables) from Cityscape. The primary advantage is that you get 1 rank into Balance that exceed your normal rank limit. This allows us to pick Bloodstorm Blade one level earlier since it requires 8 ranks in balance normally.
You also need Point Blank Shot. So that one goes in.
Next up, apart from the PBS you need, you are also going to need Weapon Focus (xen'drik or talentia boomerang) and Precise Shot for Master Thrower.
You also need +5 BAB and 4 ranks in sleight of hand, which probably is going to cost you 8 skill points unless someone can find me a Full BAB class with Sleight of Hand as a class skill.
Your first bonus feat after 6th level will be Boomerang Daze, followed by Boomerang Ricochet.

So, that's a lot of loops. What do we get eventually?

Well, you have two returning boomerangs, that deal full STR damage, that might daze up to 4 people per round.


It's not a character I would play as a player, but it makes for a decent NPC.
Logged

Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  Smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.
Fadier
Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
**
Posts: 95


« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2011, 10:36:33 PM »

Speaking of tossing around ideas...
Here's a convoluted build I just made up. It doesn't really get anywhere until you have amassed a bunch of feats, but maybe someone will like it:

Human/Azurin/Strongheart Halfling Warblade 1/Exoticist or Targeteer 2/Full BAB 1/Bloodstorm Blade 1/Master Thrower 1.

Ok, you're feat-strapped something fierce.

You have 3 regular feats and 3 bonus feats. The 6th level feat is going to be Brutal Throw.
You need Favored and Primary Contact (Gladiatorial Stables) from Cityscape. The primary advantage is that you get 1 rank into Balance that exceed your normal rank limit. This allows us to pick Bloodstorm Blade one level earlier since it requires 8 ranks in balance normally.
You also need Point Blank Shot. So that one goes in.
Next up, apart from the PBS you need, you are also going to need Weapon Focus (xen'drik or talentia boomerang) and Precise Shot for Master Thrower.
You also need +5 BAB and 4 ranks in sleight of hand, which probably is going to cost you 8 skill points unless someone can find me a Full BAB class with Sleight of Hand as a class skill.
Your first bonus feat after 6th level will be Boomerang Daze, followed by Boomerang Ricochet.

So, that's a lot of loops. What do we get eventually?

Well, you have two returning boomerangs, that deal full STR damage, that might daze up to 4 people per round.


It's not a character I would play as a player, but it makes for a decent NPC.


I made something like this but instead of Master Thrower I took the 2nd level in Bloodstorm Blade so I could Power Attack with the boomerangs. What thrown weapon trick are you taking/What purpose does Master Thrower serve?

Also if you can get the Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC 194) slightly altered to Boomerangs you don't need to worry about returning them.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 10:42:13 PM by Fadier » Logged

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Shadowhunter
Hong Kong
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Posts: 1003



« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2011, 10:52:11 PM »

I was thinking Doubletoss, since that gives full STR to both attacks.
First I considered Palm Throw, but I don't consider Boomerangs to be small enough for that and it doesn't add any STR bonus.

But it just might be so that the second level of Bloodstorm Blade is better. But there's a Feat chain that gives ranged power attack on thrown weapons, so getting it as a class feature is less inviting.

Sure, if you can modify the Gloves it's nothing to think about anymore, but I don't remember if those gloves can be created under E6 rules.
That's the reason why I didn't go for a normal +1 Returning Boomerang, since the enchantment requires Telekinesis to create and that's a spell that doesn't exist.
Logged

Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  Smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.
Fadier
Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
**
Posts: 95


« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2011, 11:20:50 PM »

Bloodstorm Blade specifically 1.5 x Strength to damage if you weild your thrown weapon in 2 hands and gives 2x Power Attack where as Brutal Throw gives just the normal 1 for 1 trade. Bloodstorm Blade is better, also remember its not just Power Attack you can also apply anything that triggers on melee attacks at range (say a Karsite or Quorbred template's abilities to shut down items/casters) or other feats like Leap Attack, Shock Trooper where RAW Power Throw wont work.

As for the items Returning is CL 7 so you might need some tricks but the gloves are CL 5 so your fine there. My biggest annoyance with the gloves is they cannot (RAW again) get the weapon disicipline enhancement on them to give you that tasty +3 to hit.
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KellKheraptis
Organ Grinder
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Posts: 2668


What's the matter? I thought you had me...


« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2011, 11:42:37 PM »

My last thought on a Mystic Ranger went something like :

1st-Track
Human-Darkstalker
3rd-Power Attack
Style-Rapid Shot
6th-Sword of the Arcane Order
Flaw-Otherworldly
Flaw-Swift and Silent

ACF's: Trapfinder, Arcane Hunter
Sub Levels: Shooting Star Ranger (Endurance, Spellcasting)

Mirror Move can grant additional feats as needed, Create Magic Tattoo combined with the Sub Level gives a CL of 9 (6+2+1), and you have Base Attack of 6 with 5/5/2 Base saves.  Awesome skills from an awesome list, at least 8/level, 9 if a human, and overall, the ability to operate at range or in melee.  I'd like to be able to hone that in more without using things like trading racial weapon proficiencies, though thus far that seems the easiest means of doing it.
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Caelic
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Posts: 979


« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2011, 12:30:45 AM »


Ranger 1, Barbarian 1, other 4 preferably to increase speed or jump - wildshape to shapeshift variant to become a wolf or eagle at higher levels, put on a high dex kobold with the dragon wings feat and you could have a free action shape changer with an insane jump check due to speed that can glide pretty much from level 1. Not quite flight but with the right addon gear might as well be. See the new batman arkham city game for movement ideas with a rod of ropes added. Smile Not terribly effective but fun.



Not seeing where you're getting Wildshape to Shapeshift in this build?  Is it an extrapolation that Wildshape Ranger can take Shapeshift?  Even so, how are you going to get to eagle with only one level of ranger?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 12:35:15 AM by Caelic » Logged
Cagemarrow
Bi-Curious George
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Posts: 470


« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2011, 01:58:23 AM »

It was following the assumption that you could trade the ACF ranger Wildshape and Animal Companion for the Shapeshift variant per the druid's cost. You can get eagle form with only 5 levels in shapeshift variant or if you are a kobold with the dragon wings and the quick change feats from Savage Species you could shapeshift as a free action. So run and jump in wolf form for a Base Speed of 70 from the ACF, 10 more if you take the quick trait, then shift back to kobold form and glide with your wings, and finally shift back into wolf form at the end of the glide to land and run for next round. It's almost flying. Wink

Not terribly useful for a party or overcoming monsters, but you'd make one hell of a messenger.
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Cagemarrow
Bi-Curious George
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Posts: 470


« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2011, 02:10:18 AM »

Thug Fighter Variant gives Full BAB and slight of hand as a class skill. Can you take two different variants of a class?

Quote
4 ranks in sleight of hand, which probably is going to cost you 8 skill points unless someone can find me a Full BAB class with Sleight of Hand as a class skill.
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ninjarabbit
Hong Kong
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Posts: 1442



« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2011, 02:17:06 AM »

Duskblade are pretty good in an e6 environment.

Human duskblade 6

Feats:
1-power attack, versatile spellcaster
3-knowledge devotion
6-firey burst

Spells:
0-touch of fatigue
1-ray of enfeeblement, resist energy, shocking grasp, swift expeditious retreat, chill touch
2-dimensional hop, scorching ray

I also have a nice little poison-using paladin of tyranny build

Human paladin of tyranny 6

1-master of poisons, wild cohort (viper)
3-power attack
6-divine might
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Shadowhunter
Hong Kong
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Posts: 1003



« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2011, 02:48:31 AM »

Thug Fighter Variant gives Full BAB and slight of hand as a class skill. Can you take two different variants of a class?

Quote
4 ranks in sleight of hand, which probably is going to cost you 8 skill points unless someone can find me a Full BAB class with Sleight of Hand as a class skill.

No, unfortunately you can't.

Oh, oh!
Love Duskblades in E6 Big Grin


+++EDIT+++

And with that I hit 1000 posts.
Yhay for me Smile
*toots one of those steam locomotive horns*
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 02:50:13 AM by Shadowhunter » Logged

Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  Smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.
Caelic
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 979


« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2011, 02:56:04 AM »

I'm fond of Binder 1/Wizard 1/Anima Mage 4.  While it doesn't give you access to Vestige Metamagic, it DOES mean you can summon a more formidable vestige--up to 7th level, with Improved Binder.  That gives you a nice range of SLAs to compliment those third-level spells.
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Shadowhunter
Hong Kong
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Posts: 1003



« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2011, 03:51:16 PM »

I'm fond of Binder 1/Wizard 1/Anima Mage 4.  While it doesn't give you access to Vestige Metamagic, it DOES mean you can summon a more formidable vestige--up to 7th level, with Improved Binder.  That gives you a nice range of SLAs to compliment those third-level spells.

This post confuses me.

I figure you qualify for 2nd level Vestiges through Improved Binding and 2nd level spells through Precocious Apprentice.
What I don't get is how you get both of those feats at the necessary speed.
PA can only be taken at level 1, so that's a given. Improved Binding requires you to already have Soul Binding, so you can't take it until level 2 when your first level of Binder appears. I don't think that can be circumvented with the Bind Vestige feat either, since that doesn't technically grant you the Soul Binding class feature.

You mention that you achieve Anima Mage level 4, but say you have no Vestige Metamagic?
At 4th level you gain Vestige Metamagic.

7th level Vestiges?
Do tell how you manage that without Bloodline cheese.
Oh, I get it. You mean Binder level 7, which gets you 4th level vestiges. Not 7th level Vestiges, which require a Binder level of 15.
Logged

Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  Smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.
sirpercival
Donkey Kong
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Posts: 593



« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2011, 04:39:11 PM »

You can do it without Precocious Apprentice, if you're an Illumian with a flaw -- because you can take Improved Sigil: Krau without having spellcasting.
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Bester
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
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Posts: 187


« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2011, 09:44:00 PM »

Shifters are really attractive in E6 since you can actually afford all those Shifter feats. It's so much fun Smile

Along the lines of good feats, any feats that base power off of other feats are good.  FoI is the obvious one, but Dragon Magic dragon blooded feats, and Complete Scoundrel Luck feats are stellar.
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Caelic
Hong Kong
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Posts: 979


« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2011, 10:45:48 PM »

You can do it without Precocious Apprentice, if you're an Illumian with a flaw -- because you can take Improved Sigil: Krau without having spellcasting.


That's actually the route I prefer, but I've noticed that some DMs are lukewarm on Illumians.

And, yes, I mean "the vestiges available to a level 7 binder"--sorry for the imprecision.

Quote from: shadowhunter
I don't think that can be circumvented with the Bind Vestige feat either, since that doesn't technically grant you the Soul Binding class feature.

It can; note that table 1-9 explicitly lists vestiges that are "only available to nonbinders who have the Improved Bind Vestige feat."

Taking Bind Vestige is a bit inefficient, since you lose the benefit when you gain your first level of Binder...but it can be done.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 10:51:04 PM by Caelic » Logged
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