Author Topic: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!  (Read 18404 times)

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gorfnad

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2011, 09:04:40 AM »
Nightstalker from Dragonlance: Races of Ansalon is pretty nice in E6. It has trapfinding, roguish skills, rebuke undead, divine spells, and a 3HD ghost cohort.

Shadowhunter

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2011, 03:23:56 PM »
Dragonfire Adepts are very nice in E6.
They got their battlefield control schtick with the Entangling Exhalation/Slow Breath combo.
Do EE breath first round, then Slow next, then EE, then Slow.
EE has a d4 rounds duration and Slow breath is 2 rounds, 1 on save.

With a bit of luck, you can keep your opponents continually Slowed and Entangled.

Slowed:
[spoiler]A slowed creature can take only a single move action or standard action each turn, but not both (nor may it take full-round actions). Additionally, it takes a –1 penalty on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves. A slowed creature moves at half its normal speed (round down to the next 5-foot increment), which affects the creature’s jumping distance as normal for decreased speed.[/spoiler]
 
Entangled:
[spoiler]entangled: Ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty to its effective Dexterity score. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell.[/spoiler]

That's 75% movement reduction, -3 to attack rolls (-5 if it uses DEX for attacking, such as ranged attacks or Weapon Finesse dudes), -3 to Reflex and AC and can take only a move or a standard action.
Just keep skirting on the edges of your breath weapon and adapt your movement to you opponent and he's going to slowly die without him ever reaching you.


Note that you can't do EE and Slow breath on the same turn, since EE requires you to damage the opponent and Slow Breath have no damage.

Play any race that gets a CON bonus. Like Mongrelfolk. Dragonborn if possible ;)
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

Ikeren

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2011, 10:02:25 PM »
Cleric has lots of options for prestiging, too

Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/any 5th level class +1 (RSoP, Divine Orcale, Prestige paladin come to mind)
Cleric 3/Ordained Champion 3 -- 5 BAB, 3rd level spells still

Also; Archivist from the Runescarred Beserker in Unapproachable East can get Divine Power as a 3rd level spell
Cleric 1/Archivist 5 = DMM divine power. Full BAB + 3rd level casting? Heck yes.

Cloistered Cleric 1 remains a kickass dip for pretty much anything.
Crusader/Warblade splits still function;
Crusader 4/Warblade 2 = 2nd level crusader manouvers, 2nd level warblade manouvers (when you want Wall of Blades + Emerald Razor + Reflex save replacer more than Iron Heart Surge or White Raven tactics...which you can still pick up via 3000gp item on the crusader side)
Warblade 4/Crusader 2 = The same; though this one's going to pick up some healing and damage manouvers, and Iron Heart Surge/White Raven Tactics go on the Warblade side.

jeffrie

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2011, 01:31:11 AM »
Cloistered3/ Church Inq2 /Chameleon1

The cap in E6 is 3rd lvl spells, and this get's those. In addition, the four domains give you access to 4th level spells from other list.
Chameleon grants any list, and so also can grant a few spells from above it's cap (2nd).

Together you get lot's of spells: 9   8-5-3 : with lots of access.

"That's one for the good guys.
Current score: Evil 923,472,810, Good 1."

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syryous

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2011, 04:34:27 AM »
Druid 5/ Beastmaster 1

gets

Brown Bear/Tiger Animal Companion
3rd Level spells
Wildshape (1/day Medium, Dire Hawk, Fleshraker?)

Shadowhunter

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2011, 09:38:33 PM »
For the slightly Gouda-tolerant, there's the early entry into Master of Shrouds.

Cleric 2/Dread Necromancer 1/Master of Shrouds 3.
Being able to summon a Shadow at level 5 is nothing to scoff at.
Dual pools of Turn Undead, so I assume there's plenty of opportunity to (ab)use Divine Metamagic or any other effect that is based upon Turn/Rebuke Undead.

[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2011, 10:27:58 PM »
Love this thread, I wish 3.5e was published with E6 rules. It's just better. E8 games would be epic and gestalt is still gestalt.

Cleric 5/Prestige Paladin 1 with Holy Mount is good times. IIRC it makes a 11th level mount. My memory isn't what it used to be!  :blush
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 01:15:59 AM by bearsarebrown »

Mixster

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2011, 12:42:18 AM »
Love this thread, I wish 3.5e was published with E6 rules. It's just better. E8 games would be epic and gestalt is still gestalt.

Cleric 5/Prestige Paladin 1 with Holy Mount is good times. IIRC it makes a 11th level mount.
It's also impossible sine Prestige Paladin requires 4 BAB and only gets it mount at 2nd level IIRC.

But I agree with you on the E6 should be standard thing.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

syryous

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2011, 03:15:19 AM »
WIP, any ideas?  Mostly looking for ways to increase hide check and damage output. 


Muckdweller (SK) Tiny Monstrous Humanoid
Rogue 3 / Thug, Sneak Attack Fighter 3

STR 4  -3
DEX 17 (+6 racial, +1 Level, +2 Item) = 26 +8
CON 14 +2
INT 14 +2
WIS 10 -
CHA 6  -2

HP 3d6 + 3d10 + 12
AC 23 (+8 Dex, +2 Size, +3 NA)
Speed 20' (Swim 20')
Bab +5
Init +8

FOrt 6
Ref  12
Will 2

Sneak Attack +4d6, Trapfinding, Trapsense +1,

Attacks
Squirt: 25', DC 21 Ref or be blinded for 1 round.

Tiny Hand Crossbow +1,
+17 (+5 Bab, +1 Focus, +8 Dex, +1 Magic, +2 Size), 1d2+5 (+4 1/2 Dex, +1 Magic) + 4d6 SA + Poison
+1 Hit / +1 Damage within 30', Sneak attack up to 60'

Hide 30 (+9 Ranks, +8 Dex, +8 Size, +5 Item)

1st Point Blank Shot
3rd Hand Crossbow Focus
6th Crossbow Sniper
6+ Precise Shot (move up if using flaws)

Items
+1 Tiny Hand Crossbow, cloak of Elvenkind, some sort of poison bolts, Gloves of Dex +2

Tohron

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2011, 03:17:12 AM »
Cleric Shadowcraft mage with DMM heighten could enter early to get the 3rd level ability then start imitating 9th level spells (if Earth Spell works for divine casters).  Extra Turning would add fuel to the fire.

Shadowhunter

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2011, 12:35:13 PM »
Syryous:

If dragon magazine material is allowed, Dragon Compendium have:
Quote
DEAD EYE [GENERAL]
Your precision with ranged weapons translates into more telling strikes than you could normally make.

Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (any ranged weapon), base attack bonus +14.

Benefit: You may add your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls made with ranged weapons for which
you have the Weapon Focus feat, so long as the target is within 30 feet.

Special: Dead Eye does not increase the damage dealt to creatures immune to critical hits.
A fighter may select Dead Eye as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Author: Clifford Horrowitz. Source: #304.

Note that the errata lowers the BAB requirement from 14 to 1.

I have some other hints, neatly lined up in this topic:
http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9073.0
It's a bit of a bundle of hints, so I'll list the good stuff:

Hit and Run-Fighter.
Targeteer from dragon magazine 310. Wait a sec... *looks at the STR score*... no, let's ignore Targeteer.
Craven.

If you can stomach the -7 ability points you get from a +1 level adjustment template, there's pretty much nothing better than the Dark Template from Tome of Magic. Relevant stuff that it gives are:
Hide in Plain Sight, Hide +8, Move Silently +6, Darkvision 60 feet, superior low-light vision.
You also get resistance to cold 10 and +10 feet to all your movement modes (you got a swim speed, that's neat), good if you have to run away from a cryohydra or something. ;)

Picking up Item Familiar (a feat) from Unearthed Arcana (let's you invest skill points into a magic item you have to make it better) allows you a bonus to a skill. For every 3 skill points you add to it, you get a +1 bonus.
Combine this with Open Minded from the Expanded Psionic Handbook that gives you 5 skill points, you can eventually have an item, let's say your cloak of elvenkind or your +2 dex gloves, that gives you a +9 bonus to Hide.
It's one heck of a Feat investment though, so by that point you might have been better of picking up other Feats.


Oh and I don't know if Muckdwellers gain automatic poison use, if they don't then I'd recommend you to substitute your Trapfinding for Poison use.
It's an ACF in DotU for rogues.
Speaking of poisons, there's a feat from DotU that nets you +2 DC to the poison save for -1 SA die. Could be an idea.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

ninjarabbit

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2011, 01:14:20 AM »
How about a loredrake wyrmling steel dragon?

4d12 HD with 6 skill points/level, all good saves, +4 BAB, casting as a 3rd level sorcerer, polymorph 5/day as a SLA, alternate form, immunity to acid, 150' (average) fly speed, natural weapons, +3 natural armor, 16 Spell Resistance, and steel dragons tend to live in humanoid settlements so it's easy to explain.

I'd highly recommend fly-by attack for one of your feats and for your spells I'd go with mage armor and silent image for 2 of your spells.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2011, 02:27:25 AM »
Polymorph would probably be banned, and LA doesn't count in E6, you just take massive stat losses instead. But good idea. The fly speed is crazy strong for the level.

dark_samuari

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2011, 02:51:42 AM »
Love this thread, I wish 3.5e was published with E6 rules. It's just better. E8 games would be epic and gestalt is still gestalt.

I love E6 and the difference it brings to most games. For my own campaign I modified it to be somewhere around E8 with major influential characters (leaders of factions & such) at 10th level but the PCs play in between third and eighth level.

syryous

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2011, 03:09:54 AM »
Shadowhunter,  that was amazingly helpful.  Thanks.

Here's version 2 with your suggestions (assuming everything is in play).

Dark Muckdweller, Tiny Monstrous Humanoid (extraplanar)
Rogue 3 / Hit and Run, Sneak Attack Fighter 3

(25pt buy)
STR 4  -3
DEX 17 (+6 racial, +1 Level, +2 Item) = 26 +8
CON 14 +2
INT 11 -
WIS 10 -
CHA 6  -2

HP 39 (3d6 + 3d10 + 12)
AC 23 (+8 Dex, +2 Size, +3 NA)
Speed 30' (Swim 30')
Bab +5
Init +8

Fort 6
Ref  12
Will 2

Sneak Attack +4d6, Trapfinding, Trapsense +1, Darkvision (60'), Superior low-light vision, Cold resistance 10

Attacks
Squirt: 25', DC 21 Ref or be blinded for 1 round.

Tiny Hand Crossbow +1,
+17 (+5 Bab, +1 Focus, +8 Dex, +1 Magic, +2 Size), 1d2+13 (+4 1/2 Dex, +8 Dex, +1 Magic) + 4d6+6 SA + 8 If flat footed + Poison
+1 Hit / +1 Damage within 30', Sneak attack up to 60'

Hide 38 (+9 Ranks, +8 Dex, +8 Dark, +8 Size, +5 Item)

1st Point Blank Shot
Flaw Precise Shot
Flaw Craven
3rd Hand Crossbow Focus
6th Crossbow Sniper
6+  Dead Eye


Items
+1 Tiny Hand Crossbow, (2400)
cloak of Elvenkind, (2500)
Gloves of Dex +2, (4000)

4100 gp left

some sort of poison bolts

He seems like he would make a really good bad guy, but perhaps too one dimensional for a PC.  After Hide/Move Silently you do have 8 other skills you could max out.

Ability Focus for +2 Dex would be an amazing Capstone feat.

Nytemare3701

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2011, 05:28:08 AM »
Crafting is capped just as harshly as spellcasting.  You can't craft an item with a higher CL requirement than your own CL.

Just a nitpick, but Artificers can craft at +2 CL. That opens up a whole new level of spells.
ALT+7 to make a •
Clean up your posts and people tend to react better to them.

My rewrites:
Mechanics
[spoiler]
Combat Expertise
Spell Resistance
Spell Schools
Combat Maneuvers
Armor and Shield Proficiency
BaB and Combat Feats
Skills (Hazard zone)
Epic Spellcasting
Poisons
Misc. Tweaks
[/spoiler]

There's RAI, and then there's RAW, and then there's "Hey, if I deliberately misread this look how powerful it is!" – Caelic

Shadowhunter

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2011, 09:11:54 PM »
Longtooth Shifter Warblade 1/Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Warshaper 2.

Between Shifting, Rage and the Warshaper bonus you're looking at +10 STR.
Pick up more Shifter feats and Extra Rage and you're going to hurt people when you chop at them.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

dark_samuari

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2011, 09:37:33 PM »
Longtooth Shifter Warblade 1/Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Warshaper 2.

Between Shifting, Rage and the Warshaper bonus you're looking at +10 STR.
Pick up more Shifter feats and Extra Rage and you're going to hurt people when you chop at them.


Going off of that how about a build like this?

James "Wolverine" Logan
Wildhunt Shifter Ranger 1/Barbarian 1/Warblade 2/Warshaper 2.

With enough feats you should be able to combine Troll-blooded with Shifter Stamina which will make you immune to damage as long as your shifting. With Whirling Frenzy, Pounce, Immunity to Critical Hits & Stunning, +4 to Str & Con and 2nd-level maneuvers you'll be in pretty good shape. The build becomes even better though if you can fit in the Quasi-Lycanthrope template to pick up DR-10/Silver for some nice protection.   

dark_samuari

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2011, 09:52:04 PM »
In fact I wonder if E6 might be more conducive to adapting/building pop culture characters than typical D&D...

I am always trying to gain more feats for a build than levels after all...

Nytemare3701

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Re: Thinking about some E6 fun...Toss around ideas with me!
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2011, 09:54:25 PM »
E6 is very good in that regard. It lets you "flesh out" characters without dramatically increasing power.
ALT+7 to make a •
Clean up your posts and people tend to react better to them.

My rewrites:
Mechanics
[spoiler]
Combat Expertise
Spell Resistance
Spell Schools
Combat Maneuvers
Armor and Shield Proficiency
BaB and Combat Feats
Skills (Hazard zone)
Epic Spellcasting
Poisons
Misc. Tweaks
[/spoiler]

There's RAI, and then there's RAW, and then there's "Hey, if I deliberately misread this look how powerful it is!" – Caelic