Author Topic: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)  (Read 7729 times)

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Prime32

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The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« on: October 17, 2011, 11:59:38 PM »
There are two warlock PrCs out there, one deriving power from demons and the other from devils. There is nothing in either class to prevent you from taking levels in the other.


CE Lesser drow Warlock 2/Devil bloodline 1/Warlock +2/Devil bloodline +1/Demonbinder 4/Hellfire warlock 1/Devil bloodline +1/Hellfire warlock +2/Fiend of possession 6
Feats: Bonus Essentia, Mortalbane (eldritch blast), Otherworldly, Practiced Spellcaster (warlock), Quicken Spell-like Ability (demonbind), Sapphire Smite, Shape Soulmeld (strongheart vest)
Invocations: Baleful Utterance, Brimstone/Hellrime Blast, Eldritch Glaive, ?

Your bloodline levels add to demonbinder, hellfire warlock and fiend of possession at the same time.
You can demonbind 7/day, and binding weaker demons is a swift action. While doing so you count as Outsider (evil), allowing you to use the abilities of Fiend of Possession. Among other things, you can grant weapon enhancements totalling +9.
Your eldritch blast damage is 18d6, or 20d6 if you allow Practiced Spellcaster to increase it. 5/day you can add +2d6 with Mortalbane.
You can smite good 3/day, dealing +22 damage. If you can trade Devil Bloodline's bonus Dodge feat for Midnight Dodge then this increases to 4/day and +23.
You have DR 7/good and DR 1/cold iron.
I'm assuming Strongheart Vest works to negate the Con damage from hellfire warlock, so let's not start that argument again.

As an alternative bloodline, Djiini grants immunity to acid, emulating yugoloths for the full spectrum of Lower Plane contracts (shame there's no yugoloth bloodline).

EDIT: If bloodline levels don't count against your character level, or you can buy them off, then take another three levels in demonbinder.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 10:44:30 AM by Prime32 »
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

lianightdemon

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2011, 12:04:10 AM »
I'd love to see the backstory for this character explaining how they born and got their classes. How you'd have devil and demon blood and strike deals with both. Character must have interesting family for sure.

awaken DM golem

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2011, 08:41:52 PM »
I see Demonbinder and think "Nar" ; figures there'd be another.

V nice.
BAB sucks, but that isn't much of a problem. Good use of Bloodlines.

spacemonkey555

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2011, 09:35:56 PM »
You can demonbind 7/day, and binding weaker demons is a swift action. While doing so you count as Outsider (evil), allowing you to use the abilities of Fiend of Possession.

You're limited to 7 minutes/day of fiend of possession, if I understand the demonbinder part correctly. If you use ritual of alignment from savage species to get the evil subtype, you'd get fop all day, you also wouldn't lose fop abilities when targeted by dismissal, etc..

Solo

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 10:31:06 PM »
And now the Blood War comes to your doorstep as both sides vie over your soul.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

sirpercival

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 10:54:52 PM »
I love the flavor of this build, it's so great.

It highlights a point of confusion for me, though... clearly it's meant to be a 20-level build, but three of the levels are bloodlines.  Do bloodlines count against your ECL or not??  What's to stop you (by RAW) from taking all three bloodline levels after first level and only being down 3000 xp at the end?
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Tr011

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2011, 11:13:36 PM »
Practiced Spellcaster (warlock)
That does not work. Check out the FAQ:
Quote
What effect would the Practiced Spellcaster feat (CAr 82) have on a warlock?

Midnight_v

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2011, 12:22:44 AM »
Practiced Spellcaster (warlock)
That does not work. Check out the FAQ:
Quote
What effect would the Practiced Spellcaster feat (CAr 82) have on a warlock?
One of those times the faq should be ignored.
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Solo

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2011, 12:23:55 AM »
Yeah, faq the FAQ.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Jackinthegreen

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2011, 04:06:07 AM »
A Warlock has a caster level.  Not allowing Practiced Spellcaster to apply is pretty much denying that fact.

As for Sirp's question...

I love the flavor of this build, it's so great.

It highlights a point of confusion for me, though... clearly it's meant to be a 20-level build, but three of the levels are bloodlines.  Do bloodlines count against your ECL or not??  What's to stop you (by RAW) from taking all three bloodline levels after first level and only being down 3000 xp at the end?

Bloodlines count against ECL because they count as class levels.  They don't grant the typical BAB, saves, etc, but they are class levels and thus can't be lowered through LA buyoff, if that's what you were thinking about.  Allowing them to be bought off would mean no one in their right mind -wouldn't- use bloodlines.

There's nothing stopping someone from taking the bloodline levels right after 1st, aside from wanting to progress other classes before needing to use a level to pay for bloodline bonuses.  Taking bloodline levels is much like taking a dip in some other class.  Their "xp cost" is the same as taking a class level too, so it wouldn't be 3 levels of bloodline for 3000xp.

spacemonkey555

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2011, 08:17:22 AM »
Bloodlines count against ECL because they count as class levels.  They don't grant the typical BAB, saves, etc, but they are class levels and thus can't be lowered through LA buyoff, if that's what you were thinking about.  Allowing them to be bought off would mean no one in their right mind -wouldn't- use bloodlines.

That isn't how everyone sees it. The raw says bloodline levels do not increase character level (explicitly), and the author and originator of the bloodline concept has posted on another forum (quoting that sentence from the bloodline rules) confirming that that was what was meant. The question he was answering was that you don't get a feat for taking a bloodline class level at level 6, because you didnt increase your character level.

It was packaged with (right beside, as a matter of fact) la buyoff, another rule no one in their right mind wouldn't use.

Jackinthegreen

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2011, 03:34:03 PM »
If Bloodlines don't increase character level/ECL, then there's technically nothing to prevent characters from spending 3k XP on a Major Bloodline and nothing to stop them from taking 20 regular class levels and 3 Bloodline levels before Epic.  Might as well add three more class levels onto this build.

Edit: Just found PlzBreakMyCampaign's Bloodline Handbook. http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7167.0  I'll read through it and come back to this topic.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 03:46:47 PM by Jackinthegreen »

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2011, 05:59:10 PM »
Yeah, faq the FAQ.

Right on ...  :fu

awaken DM golem

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2011, 06:05:11 PM »
Yugoloths On Parade !!
 ;)

... The raw says bloodline levels do not increase character level (explicitly), and the author and originator of the bloodline concept has posted on another forum (quoting that sentence from the bloodline rules) confirming that that was what was meant. The question he was answering was that you don't get a feat for taking a bloodline class level at level 6, because you didnt increase your character level ...

hmm ... This could make things interesting.
Old C.O. went ahead and treated a Bloodline level = a class level.
And that's kinda been the standard for awhile.
PLZ on the link above, puts forward a differing interpretation, closer to LAs.
This designer X quote, would make it even more like an LA.

It's fine and all, for one of the designers to clarify their "I"-ntent.
But we still get the task of figuring out the nuts and bolts.

Do you have that quote, or a link to it ??


spacemonkey555

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2011, 08:27:03 PM »
Yugoloths On Parade !!
 ;)

... The raw says bloodline levels do not increase character level (explicitly), and the author and originator of the bloodline concept has posted on another forum (quoting that sentence from the bloodline rules) confirming that that was what was meant. The question he was answering was that you don't get a feat for taking a bloodline class level at level 6, because you didnt increase your character level ...

hmm ... This could make things interesting.
Old C.O. went ahead and treated a Bloodline level = a class level.
And that's kinda been the standard for awhile.
PLZ on the link above, puts forward a differing interpretation, closer to LAs.
This designer X quote, would make it even more like an LA.

It's fine and all, for one of the designers to clarify their "I"-ntent.
But we still get the task of figuring out the nuts and bolts.

Do you have that quote, or a link to it ??


http://gameschat19968.yuku.com/topic/2348

The example question was actually level 12 not 6, close enough though

Arz

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2011, 03:37:57 PM »
Incarnum Helmet will allow you to max out up to 3 incarnum feats.

Prime32

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2011, 04:25:14 PM »
Incarnum Helmet will allow you to max out up to 3 incarnum feats.
I can't find any "Incarnum Helmet" in either MoI or MIC, and a Google search gives 0 results.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

kremti

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2011, 05:14:45 PM »
Incarnum Helmet will allow you to max out up to 3 incarnum feats.
I can't find any "Incarnum Helmet" in either MoI or MIC, and a Google search gives 0 results.

He probably meant 'Essentia Helm' from MiC.

-K

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Re: The Twice-Claimed Warlock (3.5 Build)
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2011, 08:50:39 PM »
Yugoloths On Parade !!
 ;)

... The raw says bloodline levels do not increase character level (explicitly), and the author and originator of the bloodline concept has posted on another forum (quoting that sentence from the bloodline rules) confirming that that was what was meant. The question he was answering was that you don't get a feat for taking a bloodline class level at level 6, because you didnt increase your character level ...

hmm ... This could make things interesting.
Old C.O. went ahead and treated a Bloodline level = a class level.
And that's kinda been the standard for awhile.
PLZ on the link above, puts forward a differing interpretation, closer to LAs.
This designer X quote, would make it even more like an LA.

It's fine and all, for one of the designers to clarify their "I"-ntent.
But we still get the task of figuring out the nuts and bolts.

Do you have that quote, or a link to it ??


http://gameschat19968.yuku.com/topic/2348

The example question was actually level 12 not 6, close enough though

Thanks.

I'm'n'a stick this link over on PLZ's handbook.