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Author Topic: Utility Cleric Build - New poster looking for suggestions.  (Read 6953 times)
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RacerX103
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« on: October 16, 2011, 06:23:26 PM »

As the title says, I'm a new poster. I would like some help/criticism of a cleric build I put together for a campaign coming up soon. I am new to the group. The group uses Core/Complete/Races/Spell Compendium, and the Magic Item Compendium with DM permission, but NO Unearthed Arcana, "seasonal" books, or campaign-specific books (like, unfortunately, the Player's Guide to Faerun.) The group does not appear to have any particular issues with practical optimization, though the DM does seem to have an unhealthy dislike for Wish and Miracle. I basically would like to know if this build is A) good and B) allowable by an average DM.

Race: Grey Elf
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Deity: Fharlaghan
Classes: Cleric 4/Church Inquisitor 3/Seeker of the Misty Isle 4/Divine Oracle 3/Contemplative 3/Ruathar 3

32-point buy
Ability Scores: STR [10], DEX [16], CON [12], INT [14], WIS [15], CHA [12] (after applying racial modifiers; all points to WIS for [20] at level 20.

Classes              BAB/Saves (without ability bonuses)
Cleric 1              +0, 2/0/2
Cleric 2              +1, 3/0/3
Cleric 3              +2, 3/1/3
Cleric 4              +3, 4/1/4
Church Inquisitor 1  +3, 4/1/6
Seeker of Isle 1      +3, 6/3/6
Seeker of Isle 2      +4, 7/4/6
Seeker of Isle 3      +5, 7/4/7
Seeker of Isle 4      +6/+1, 8/5/7
Divine Oracle 1      +6/+1, 8/5/9
Divine Oracle 2      +7/+2, 8/5/10
Contemplative 1      +7/+2, 8/5/12
Contemplative 2      +8/+3, 8/5/13
Ruathar 1              +8/+3, 8/7/15
Church Inquisitor 2  +9/+4, 8/7/16
Church Inquisitor 3  +10/+5, 9/7/16
Ruathar 2              +11/+6/+1, 9/8/17
Contemplative 3      +11/+6/+1, 10/9/17
Divine Oracle 3      +11/+6/+1, 11/10/17
Ruathar 3              +12/+7/+2, 12/10/17

Domains:
Travel, Luck, Celerity (Contemplative 1), Inquisition (Church Inquisitor 1), Oracle (Div. Oracle 1)

Skills: Spellcraft 23, Concentration 23, Knowledge (Religion) 13, Spot 10, Listen 10, Survival 8, Diplomacy 5, Bluff 5, Sense Motive 5, Heal 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 5, Open Lock 1, Disable Device 1, UMD 1, Decipher Script 1.

Feats: [X] - Knowledge Focus (Religion) from Frog God's Fane, [1] Point Blank Shot, [3] Precise Shot, [6] Divine Spell Power, [6] Travel Devotion (from swapping out spare Travel domain from Seeker of Misty Isle), [9] Spontaneous Domains, [12] Rapid Shot, [15] Extra Turning, [18] Extra Turning.

Some notes: the point of placing a single point in each of the trained skills is to enable them to be used in a pinch with Divine Insight. I am not sure if this should be reduced to 1/2 point per skill or removed altogether. I realize I can get Precise Shot as a weapon enhancement but I'm not sure what kind of equipment we'll be able to get/make/purchase. I am avoiding DMM; I'm certain DMM: Persistent isn't allowed and I don't feel like assembling a DMM: Quicken build or something that gets shot down.

I feel like this build generally improves on Cleric 20, since it has higher saves and a ton of abilities at the cost of a couple points of BAB. I am ultimately entirely unsure about my feats, or even if I should be a ranged attacker vs. a melee one; I just assumed that with my lower CON I should stay away from big monsters.
I really like the organization of the first 12 levels; the rest is pretty much up in the air. The three levels of Ruathar are specifically there to bring up the BAB and especially the reflex saves; I considered removing them for 3 more levels of Divine Oracle or Contemplative and am not sure if that's  a better option. I kinda think the boost to reflex saves and skills outweighs adding a 4th domain from Fharlaghn's portfolio at really high levels and immunity to poison.  Getting Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny from Divine Oracle might be more worth it though. I apologize if a similar build is common and I'm asking already answered questions. Thanks in advance for your time.
 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 06:08:57 AM by RacerX103 » Logged
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Organ Grinder
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Posts: 3941



« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2011, 07:37:33 PM »

Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 5/Divine Oracle 10/Contemplative 2

Abilities: Str 8, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 14
Domains: Cleric- Travel, Windstorm*, Oracle, Knowledge Devotion (Church Inquisitor 1), Travel Devotion (Contemplative 1)
Feats: [1] Point Blank Shot, [3] Precise Shot, [6] Zen Archery, [9] Rapid Shot, [12] Divine Spell Power

*Note that Windstorm is the updated name for the Weather domain.

Spontaneous Domains is not that great of a feat, even though you've got 3 domains that get you a decent selection of domain spells over the full 9 levels, they're pretty diverse so you should know which spell you'll want at a given level.  If you really want to access your other domain spells, consider taking Craft Wondrous Item or Craft Staff at 15 and making either 1/day or charged items out of them.  Guidelines for that are in the DMG.  Also, it's not going to be until right around level 12 that you're easily going to have the bonuses on your turning check needed to guarantee that +4 bonus to caster level with each use of Divine Spell Power.
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RacerX103
Monkey bussiness
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Posts: 8



« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2011, 08:29:04 PM »

I really, really wanted to use the Seeker of the Misty Isle prestige class; I guess I just can't see how levels 4 and 5 of Church Inquisitor and the 7/8/9 levels of Divine Oracle are really worth it. Clearly the 10th level DO ability is awesome, though. I think I was definitely wrong to include the Ruathar levels over the last 3 levels of Divine Oracle, though, I should probably make that change no matter what. Regarding Spontaneous Domains: I can't figure out how, really, to access my domains more regularly; I was thinking instead of maybe Domain Spontaneity [Travel] or something. You are definitely right about Divine Power, though; I'll get both more turns and more reliability later on by moving it up. Thanks!

EDIT: Also, the reason I went with the 4 levels of Cleric and Seeker early is that it made a more robust character as far as saves, skills and hit dice. Is that not as important as I think it is?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 08:33:52 PM by RacerX103 » Logged
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Organ Grinder
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« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2011, 08:46:28 PM »

Generally speaking, you want immunities more than you particularly care about saving throws.  Heroes Feast, Death Ward, your Travel Domain ability, and immunity to Charms AND Compulsions from Church Inquisitor gives you a solid array of immunities that should invalidate most all of the truly dangerous effects that will be used against you.
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jeffrie
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2011, 11:10:29 PM »

Personally, i love the 'multi domain/spontaneous domains' trick, though i understand 'feats are expensive'.

I love the fluff of Seeker, and if you think fluff is important, it gives a domain and caster level for 1.

When i build a cleric, i can barely resist the urge to get Divine Power as a spontaneous conversion spell. Having a full bab, +3 to hit and dam, and an extra hp/lvl whenever you want is pretty useful. The bab works for everything, including ranged spells/etc. The only way i know to get it is Ordained Champion CC

War, Elf (or Celerity), Inquisition, Magic, Travel, Oracle, Choice, Choice
Cleric3 / Inquisitor5 / Ordained Champion1 / Seeker1 / Divine Oracle3 / Contemplative7

Build needs only one feat. Loses only 1 CL. Take the Half Human Elf rule from PHb2. As far as immunities, Contemplative addresses that very well also.

This build gets Divine Power as a spontaneous conversion spell, as well as many goodies. Find a way to store your off day spells (staff?) and you are set.

The thing i like least about the build is that it loses spontaneous heal. I usually make up with Touch of Healing [Reserve] CC.

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"That's one for the good guys.
Current score: Evil 923,472,810, Good 1."

-Kuroimaken
RacerX103
Monkey bussiness
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Posts: 8



« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2011, 01:38:23 AM »

Yeah, the last time I played I used the Innate Spell from PGtF for Divine Power, which I liked quite a bit even with the heavy feat cost. I really dislike losing caster levels, though. I think there's a feat in Complete Divine that just gives you Spontaneous Healing like the regular cleric power; probably does what you want it to for Ordained Champion.
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jeffrie
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2011, 04:05:37 AM »

SPONTANEOUS HEALER [GENERAL]
Benefit: You can use your spellcasting ability to spontaneously cast cure spells (from your class spell list) just
as a cleric can.

SPONTANEOUS SUMMONER[GENERAL]

Neither of these will make Divine Power spontaneous.

Ordained Champ1 does other cute tricks also. It's worth two fighter feats (PA and archery?) Move it back in the build for that.
Cleric3 / Inquisitor2 / Seeker1 / +3Inq5/ Divine Oracle1/  Ordained Champion1 / +2DO3 / Contemplative7

Feats: [X] - Knowledge Focus (Religion) from Frog God's Fane,  Point Blank Shot from Elf Domain, Weapon Focus (Longsword) from deity, Martial Weapon Proficiency (Longbow) from half human heritage.

[1]Precise Shot,[3] Rapid Shot [6] Spontaneous Domains, [6] Travel Devotion (from swapping out spare Travel domain), [9] Zen Archery, [11]Blindfight? (from Inq) and Power Attack (from Oracle), [12]Divine Spell Power , [15] Extra Turning, [18] Extra Turning.

This build gets; detect evil at will, immune to charms, pierce illusion, immune to compulsion, scry bonus, prescient sense, enhanced divination, UMD at 1/2 level, immune to all disease(+magic), immune to poison, and SR 17.

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"That's one for the good guys.
Current score: Evil 923,472,810, Good 1."

-Kuroimaken
RacerX103
Monkey bussiness
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Posts: 8



« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2011, 06:47:50 AM »

My point was that if you did take ordained champion, which would give you spontaneous divine power via the war domain, you could take spontaneous healing to get the ability back. Thanks for the build idea, though.
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RacerX103
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Posts: 8



« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2011, 06:07:48 AM »

For completeness' sake, I figured I'd just post what I ended up going with - I was allowed to add DMM Quicken, so that changed up the feats a little.

Cleric 4/Church Inquisitor 6/Seeker of Misty Isle 4/Divine Oracle 4/Contemplative 2

Cleric 1              +0, 2/0/2
Cleric 2              +1, 3/0/3
Cleric 3              +2, 3/1/3
Cleric 4              +3, 4/1/4
Church Inquisitor 1  +3, 4/1/6
Seeker of Isle 1      +3, 6/3/6
Seeker of Isle 2      +4, 7/4/6
Seeker of Isle 3      +5, 7/4/7
Seeker of Isle 4      +6/+1, 8/5/7
Divine Oracle 1      +6/+1, 8/5/9
Divine Oracle 2      +7/+2, 8/5/10
Contemplative 1      +7/+2, 8/5/12
Contemplative 2      +8/+3, 8/5/13
Church Inquisitor 2  +9/+4, 8/5/14
Church Inquisitor 3  +10/+5, 9/6/14
Church Inquisitor 4  +11/+6/+1, 9/6/15
Divine Oracle 3       +11/+6/+1, 10/7/15
Divine Oracle 4       +12/+7/+2, 10/7/16
Church Inquisitor 5  +12/+7/+2, 10/7/16
Church Inquisitor 6  +13/+8/+3, 11/8/17

Skills basically the same.


Feats: [X] - Knowledge Focus (Religion) from Frog God's Fane, [1] Point Blank Shot, [3] Precise Shot, [6] Rapid Shot, [6] Travel Devotion (from swapping out spare Travel domain from Seeker of Misty Isle), [9] Quicken Spell [12] DMM: Quicken [15] Divine Spell Power [18] Extra Turning.

Thanks to everyone who posted helpful advice; the build feels a lot better without the crappy Ruathar levels in there. I can buy 1 Nightstick, so I guess I'll get the extra turns later from the single Nightstick, a Reliquary Holy Symbol and a +CHA item. I really liked the Ordained Champ level, but I decided against it since I didn't want to lose the caster level and there are some RP issues there. I also still miss either Spontaneous Domains or Domain Spontaneity; but I think you guys are right that either is an expensive feat for what it does.

Thanks all, this character should be a lot of fun to play.


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Kethrian
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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2011, 03:05:13 AM »

While it would likely require you to completely rebuild, the Arcane Disciple variant could make for an excellent base to start will.  It's found in Dragon 311, and a brief description can be found here http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13456.0
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