Yet Another Fighter Rewrite [3.5, Base Class, a Work in Progress]

[bkdubs123]

The Fighter
The purpose of this rewrite is twofold: 1) make the Fighter awesome in combat without resorting to maneuvers/stances; and 2) give the Fighter a useful out-of-combat schtick. For the former I was inspired by Tome feats, for the latter I struck on making the Fighter a master of battle/weapon/armor/location knowledge. Please let me know what you think.

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d10

Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special
1st	+1	+2	+0	+0	Fighting Style, Style Dice +1d6, Combat Logistics
2nd	+2	+3	+0	+0	Bonus Feat
3rd	+3	+3	+1	+1	Style Dice +2d6
4th	+4	+4	+1	+1	Discern Battle
5th	+5	+4	+1	+1	Style Dice +3d6
6th	+6/+1	+5	+2	+2	Bonus Feat
7th	+7/+2	+5	+2	+2	Fighting Style (2nd)
8th	+8/+3	+6	+2	+2	Arms Lore
9th	+9/+4	+6	+3	+3	Style Dice +4d6
10th	+10/+5	+7	+3	+3	Bonus Feat
11th	+11/+6/+1	+7	+3	+3	Style Dice +5d6
12th	+12/+7/+2	+8	+4	+4	Measure the Man
13th	+13/+8/+3	+8	+4	+4	Fighting Style (3rd)
14th	+14/+9/+4	+9	+4	+4	Bonus Feat
15th	+15/+10/+5	+9	+5	+5	Style Dice +6d6
16th	+16/+11/+6/+1	+10	+5	+5	Legend Lore
17th	+17/+12/+7/+2	+10	+5	+5	Style Dice +7d6
18th	+18/+13/+8/+3	+11	+6	+6	Bonus Feat
19th	+19/+14/+9/+4	+11	+6	+6	Fighting Style (4th)
20th	+20/+15/+10/+5	+12	+6	+6	Timeless Veteran

Class Skills (6 + Int modifier): Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Any), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Survival, Swim, and Tumble.

Weapon & Armor Proficiency
A Fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all armor, and all shields (including tower shields).

Fighting Style (Ex): A Fighter is a true champion of practiced, honed, and perfected martial art. A Barbarian may rely on his rage and toughness, or a Duskblade on his magic to power his blade, but a Fighter relies on his wits, his experience, and his mastery of warfare. To put it simply, he fights better.

At 1st level, select one of the following fighting styles: Archer, Centurion, Duelist, Juggernaut, Outrider, Master of Arms, Tempest, or Vanguard. Your chosen style defines your area of expertise and grants you exceptional prowess within that field. Your skills outmatch the best warriors in the land. As you gain levels your style improves and you are able to pick up additional styles. Your 2nd style deals damage and improves at your level -6, your 3rd at your level -12, and your 4th at your level -18. Style Dice stack when applicable.

For example, a 15th level Fighter has chosen Duelist as his first Fighting Style, Centurion as his 2nd, and Vanguard as his third. While holding a shield, if he moves 10ft and then attacks a flat-footed foe that missed him with a melee attack within 1 round he deals +6d6 damage from Duelist, +4d6 damage from Centurion, and +2d6 damage from Vanguard.

A Fighter may change his Fighting Styles with a period of practice no less than 60 hours. While most humanoid fighters must normally split this training into several sessions it must be completed in a time no greater than two months. At the end of his training he reassigns all Fighting Styles he has gained from his Fighter levels and then loses a level, as if from being raised from the dead.

Styles
[SPOILER]
Archer
[spoiler]At 1st level you do not provoke attacks of opportunity for attacking with a ranged weapon in melee and suffer no penalties to attack rolls when attacking a creature threatened in melee or that is prone. You deal your Style Dice in extra damage whenever you attack an enemy within your first range increment.

At 7th level you threaten creatures with ranged weapons for the purposes of making attacks of opportunity provided you hit them with an attack during your turn and that they remain within your weapon's first range increment. Those creatures provoke attacks of opportunity for movement only when they would move beyond your weapon's first range increment.

At 13th level your attacks with ranged weapons ignore damage reduction and regeneration.

At 19th level your attacks with ranged weapons ignore immunity or resistance to critical hits.[/spoiler]

Centurion
[spoiler]
At 1st level when an enemy misses you with a melee attack, for 1 round after, if you hold a shield you deal your Style Dice in extra damage when attacking that creature with a melee weapon. As long as you hold a shield and aren't flat-footed, you benefit from the Block Arrows feat and add your shield bonus to touch AC as well as reflex saves made to avoid damage.

At 7th level you may make a shield bash attack against a creature that enters one of your threatened squares as an immediate action. Doing so does not cause you to lose your shield bonus to AC.

At 13th level you may make a Bull Rush attempt against any creature you successfully shield bash. If you do, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity and cannot move with the creature. If your attempt succeeds by 5 or more the creature is also knocked prone.

At 19th level you gain Improved Evasion as long as you hold a shield.
[/spoiler]

Duelist
[spoiler]
At 1st level, while you are unarmored and carry a light or one-handed weapon your Base Reflex Save is equal to your Base Fortitude Save, you gain a dodge bonus to AC equal to your Base Reflex Save, you benefit from Uncanny Dodge, and you deal your Style Dice in extra damage when you attack a foe that has been denied its dexterity bonus to AC.

At 7th level, creatures do not deal extra Power Attack damage to you and you may Feint as an immediate action.

At 13th level, creatures flanking you, that attack you and miss, attack another creature of your choice that's flanking you at the same attack bonus. Creatures attacked in this way are flat-footed for the attack and if it hits they are flat-footed for 1 round.

At 19th level, creatures with reach, that attack you and miss, fall prone and are flat-footed while they remain prone in this way.
[/spoiler]

Juggernaut
[spoiler]
At 1st level you are treated as one size category larger for all beneficial purposes but reach (gaining only half normal size bonuses), and you deal your Style Dice in extra damage against any creature smaller than you.

At 7th level you are treated as two size categories larger for all beneficial purposes but reach (gaining only half normal size bonuses), and have Damage Reduction 5/--.

At 13th level you are treated as three size categories larger for all beneficial purposes but reach (gaining only half normal size bonuses), have the reach a creature one size category larger, and have DR 10/--.

At 19th level you actually move up a size category, have DR 20/--, and have a 50% chance to turn critical hits into normal ones.
[/spoiler]

Master of Arms
[spoiler]
At 1st level you gain proficiency with all exotic weapons and armor, you gain a +4 bonus to all Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Overrun, and Trip checks, and you deal your Style Dice in extra damage whenever you successfully Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Overrun, or Trip a creature.

At 7th level, creatures you successfully Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Overrun, or Trip are Staggered for 1 round.

At 13th level, you deal your Style Dice in extra damage to any creature that is Dazed or Staggered.

At 19th level, creatures you successfully Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Overrun, or Trip are Dazed for 1 round.
[/spoiler]

Outrider
[spoiler]
No ideas yet. Help?
[/spoiler]

Tempest
[spoiler]At 1st level you have the ability to make an attack with your off-hand weapon using your full strength modifier to damage and suffering no penalties any time you make an attack with your main-hand weapon and at the same attack bonus. You deal your Style Dice in extra damage each time you hit with both weapons.

At 7th level you may add the higher of your main-hand or off-hand weapon's enhancement bonus as a shield bonus to your AC and you may enchant any two weapons as long as both are either light or one-handed for the price of enchanting one. They need not receive the same magic properties.

At 13th level when you attack a creature you gain a +2 bonus to your attack roll for each attack that has hit that creature this round.

At 19th level the second time in a round in which you deal a creature your Tempest Style Dice damage you knock that creature prone. The third time you slay the creature instantly (death effect).[/spoiler]

Vanguard
[spoiler]
At 1st level you gain a +10ft bonus to speed, ignore armor check penalties, and deal your Style Dice in extra damage when you attack a creature after moving at least 10ft.

At 7th level you gain Pounce. You also gain a bonus to AC for 1 round equal to your number of Style Dice after you move at least 10ft.

At 13th level you may move 10ft as a 5ft step. This allows you to take a 5ft step in difficult terrain. You may also take a 5ft step as an immediate action.

At 19th level you constantly benefit from Freedom of Movement as an extraordinary effect.
[/spoiler]

More to come...
[/SPOILER]

Style Dice
At 1st level when making attacks in the way specified by his Fighting Style a Fighter deals 1d6 additional damage. This additional damage improves by 1d6 at every odd-numbered level hereafter except for levels 7, 13, and 19 when the Fighter obtains new Fighting Styles.

Combat Logistics (Ex): A Fighter gains a bonus equal to his class level on all Appraise, Gather Information, Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Local), Search, and Survival checks as well as any Knowledge checks made to identify monsters and their special powers and vulnerabilities. He may locate and disable traps as a Rogue does and Track as the feat. Knowing is half the battle.

Bonus Feats
At 2nd level and every four levels thereafter a Fighter gains a bonus feat chosen from the list of Fighter feats. He must meet the prerequisite of any feat chosen this way. He may change any number of these bonus feats after 1 hour of practice, but when he does he must retain any feats that are prerequisites for other feats he has.

He is also able to change specific weapons designated or mentioned by his feats to any other specified weapons during this practice one for another.

Discern Battle (Ex): Starting at 4th level a Fighter may study a site where creatures did battle and learn about what took place there with amazing accuracy and uncanny insight. This ability requires 10 minutes and may be used on one corpse or 10ft radius area at a time.

Using this ability on a corpse is similar to the Speak With Dead spell except that the effect can only provide answers to questions related to the fighting that took place immediately before the creature's death (the ability fails if the Fighter mistakenly uses it on a creature that did not die from violence).

Using this ability on an area is similar to the Stone Tell spell except that the effect cannot reveal information about anything covered or concealed in the area and only reveals information about the most recent violence done in the area.

Arms Lore (Ex): Starting at 8th level, when crafting masterwork weapons or armor a Fighter may add an enhancement bonus up to 1/2 his class level half of which may be magical properties. To do so costs him extra gp equal to half the total value of the enhancements and properties, but does not increase the time required to create the items.

This effectively grants him the Craft Magic Arms & Armor feat, but he may craft these items despite having no caster level and without knowing the requisite spells as long as those spells are not of a level higher than 1/2 his Fighter class levels.

He may also identify magical weapon or armor properties of items he handles with an Appraise check as a free action against DC 20 + highest spell level among spells required to add the property.

Measure the Man (Ex): Starting at 12th level, by observing a creature for 10 minutes, or by threatening a creature for 3 consecutive rounds in combat, the Fighter may learn a great many things. He learns the creature's alignment, its base attack bonus, and its Fighter feats (if any). If he is threatening the creature in combat he also detects its surface thoughts as the Detect Thoughts spell as long as he continues to threaten the creature.

Legend Lore (Ex): Starting at 16th level, a Fighter may produce an extraordinary Legend Lore effect at-will as the spell; however he may only perform this task if the person, place, or thing is at hand and only by succeeding at an appropriate skill check (Appraise for an object, Gather Information for a person, or Knowledge (Geography or History or Local, DMs discretion) for a place) at DC 30.

Using this ability requires 1d4x10 minutes like normal; however, you may engage in any sorts of activities while doing so, even stressful activities like combat.

You may not retry a Legend Lore attempt for a particular person, place, or thing until you gain a level.

Timeless Veteran (Ex): At 20th level a Fighter's deeds have already gone down in history, and having left his mark on the multiverse, he takes his experiences and rides them into the sunset. He no longer suffers penalties from aging, removing any that he has already accrued, and becomes exempt from and immune to Divination effects. He is also immune to calling, death and polymorph effects.

[RobbyPants]

First, I really like this. It looks fun as hell to play. I'd want to roll several of these just to try the styles all at once.

Discern Battle, Measure the Man , and Legend Lore are the first mundane divination I've seen. I like them (particularly Discern Battle).

There's a typo in Arms Lore: "when crafting masterwork weapons or armor a Fighter may an enhancement bonus". It looks like you left out the word "add". I like the ability, though.


A few questions:

Can you TWF in the Duelist style? It says you need to hold a one-handed weapon, but says nothing else.

Is the DR supposed to increase at level 19 for the Juggernaut?

What is an outrider? Mounted combat? If so, you could deal Style damage while mounted, or while charging while mounted. I'd make overruns, tramples, and charges work together like in 3.0. I'd see this guy plowing into battle, making curved, devastating charges, and outmaneuvering ground-based opponents. You might want an ability for the steed to ignore difficult terrain eventually. Perhaps some odd clause that lets them maneuver in tighter spaces than normal (like a creature one size smaller or something?) so they can go in dungeons.

[Midnight_v]

Hmm.. style dice = rage dice essentially, why'd you stop them at 7d6?
Also, what made you pick  1,7,13,19 for the powers to online?

At 7th level, creatures you successfully Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Overrun, or Trip are Dazed for 1 round.
At 13th level, you deal your Style Dice in extra damage to any creature that is Dazed, Stunned, or Paralyzed.

At 19th level, you may attempt a Coup de Grace against a Dazed, Stunned, or Paralyzed creature as an immediate action

What the fuck!??
 So let me ge this straight. Bullrush, Coup de grace?
Counting as huge to do so from taking juggernaut as your second fighting style. So pretty much if you can get adjacent to someone you daze them(no save, just make them play the game you're spec'ed in) and lop off thier head. Thats wrong on a number of levels.

Tempest also is broke. In that as written it appears anytime you full attack someone with 2wpn fighting (with no penalties ftw) they get a scaling +2 to hit, knock them prone +4 more to hit, and then, they die, no save.


Pretty balanced over all. Good job? 

[bkdubs123]

First, I really like this. It looks fun as hell to play. I'd want to roll several of these just to try the styles all at once.

Thank you. I was pretty happy with it myself.

Discern Battle, Measure the Man , and Legend Lore are the first mundane divination I've seen. I like them (particularly Discern Battle).

Discern Battle is very cool. The roleplaying potential for this class is high, which I'm very happy with considering that was an initial design goal.

There's a typo in Arms Lore: "when crafting masterwork weapons or armor a Fighter may an enhancement bonus". It looks like you left out the word "add".

Ha, yes, I left out "add," thank you.

Can you TWF in the Duelist style? It says you need to hold a one-handed weapon, but says nothing else.

Yes you can. Or you can use a shield. Many of the styles were designed to be intentionally open ended since you get 4 of them in your career and can and should combine them when applicable.

Is the DR supposed to increase at level 19 for the Juggernaut?

Yep, thanks for pointing that out.

What is an outrider? Mounted combat?

Yeah, I want to make Mounted Combat work, and that's what Outrider is supposed to account for. Your suggestions are my basic thoughts too. I'll keep thinking about it.

Hmm.. style dice = rage dice essentially, why'd you stop them at 7d6?
Also, what made you pick  1,7,13,19 for the powers to online?

Yes, they definitely bring Rage Dice to mind. Initially I had them go up to 10d6, but because additional styles can stack Style Dice and in the interest of making the table look more attractive I dumped Style Dice at 7th, 13th, and 19th. I picked those levels merely because they were an even split throughout 20 levels and because they allow a 20th level Fighter to retrain all styles, lose a level, and still have 4 styles.

At 7th level, creatures you successfully Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Overrun, or Trip are Dazed for 1 round.
At 13th level, you deal your Style Dice in extra damage to any creature that is Dazed, Stunned, or Paralyzed.

At 19th level, you may attempt a Coup de Grace against a Dazed, Stunned, or Paralyzed creature as an immediate action

What the fuck!??
 So let me ge this straight. Bullrush, Coup de grace?[/quote]

Yep. It's been my understanding that Bull Rush is generally really hard to accomplish without stuff like War Hulk to back you up. I figure at 19th level, it's not really that big of a deal if you're able to shove some mook 20ft and end your movement lopping off their head.

Counting as huge to do so from taking juggernaut as your second fighting style. So pretty much if you can get adjacent to someone you daze them(no save, just make them play the game you're spec'ed in) and lop off thier head. Thats wrong on a number of levels.

By the time you're 19th level you face off against Balors, 9th level spells, and Colossal creatures. Just being Huge isn't going to automatically mean you win.

Tempest also is broke. In that as written it appears anytime you full attack someone with 2wpn fighting (with no penalties ftw) they get a scaling +2 to hit, knock them prone +4 more to hit, and then, they die, no save.

Note that to knock them prone you have to hit them four times (twice each with both weapons), and to kill them with no save you have to hit them six times (three times each with both weapons). I'm not sure that's too crazy at 19th level.

But don't worry. I wrote this all really fast last night, and I'm open to further discussion on these if you still think they're way too powerful. I do realize that they are nasty strong.

[RobbyPants]

Can you TWF in the Duelist style? It says you need to hold a one-handed weapon, but says nothing else.

Yes you can. Or you can use a shield. Many of the styles were designed to be intentionally open ended since you get 4 of them in your career and can and should combine them when applicable.

I was going to ask you if you could use TWF and Duelist at the same time, but...

Hmm.. style dice = rage dice essentially, why'd you stop them at 7d6?
Also, what made you pick  1,7,13,19 for the powers to online?

Yes, they definitely bring Rage Dice to mind. Initially I had them go up to 10d6, but because additional styles can stack Style Dice and in the interest of making the table look more attractive I dumped Style Dice at 7th, 13th, and 19th.

It looks like you already clarified that you can stack Style Dice. Maybe I missed it, but you might want to put in a note specifically saying you can stack them, just to avoid arguments at the table.

[bkdubs123]

It looks like you already clarified that you can stack Style Dice. Maybe I missed it, but you might want to put in a note specifically saying you can stack them, just to avoid arguments at the table.

Yep, good call, will do.

[Midnight_v]

Yep. It's been my understanding that Bull Rush is generally really hard to accomplish without stuff like War Hulk to back you up. I figure at 19th level, it's not really that big of a deal if you're able to shove some mook 20ft and end your movement lopping off their head.


Quote
Counting as huge to do so from taking juggernaut as your second fighting style. So pretty much if you can get adjacent to someone you daze them(no save, just make them play the game you're spec'ed in) and lop off thier head. Thats wrong on a number of levels.

By the time you're 19th level you face off against Balors, 9th level spells, and Colossal creatures. Just being Huge isn't going to automatically mean you win.

  

Not that you're actually going to get 3 Size Increases Large, huge, gargantuan... and you can become large easily and cheaply by item, or permanced enlarge person. Its common and makes sense when you start automatically winning vs everything you can hit with a standard action. Now some of these dudes may not let you do that easily but these gritters die instantly if you ever hit them.
Hmm... whats that look like.
+4 from becoming large (an actual size increase that you'll buy) Large size
+12 from fighter 3 size increases (Count as colossal)
+4 from master at arms
+4 from improved bull rush.
+10 30 str
+2 from being large.
36 before rolling... 38 if you actually charge well assume you don't for the purpose of this.
Balor + 12 from strength + 4 from large. 16.
If you get a standard action balor dies.
Titan + 16 strength + 8 from size. 24 pre-roll
Titan dies.
Solars are large sized, and weaker than balor.
Tarrasque +17 str + 16 size: 33 before rolling.
Even if you don't kill it, you have a better chance of coup de gracing this thing pretty frequently. Further you still deal damage so that might kill it too.

These are NOT mooks.

[bkdubs123]

Yep. It's been my understanding that Bull Rush is generally really hard to accomplish without stuff like War Hulk to back you up. I figure at 19th level, it's not really that big of a deal if you're able to shove some mook 20ft and end your movement lopping off their head.


Quote
Counting as huge to do so from taking juggernaut as your second fighting style. So pretty much if you can get adjacent to someone you daze them(no save, just make them play the game you're spec'ed in) and lop off thier head. Thats wrong on a number of levels.

By the time you're 19th level you face off against Balors, 9th level spells, and Colossal creatures. Just being Huge isn't going to automatically mean you win.

  

Not that you're actually going to get 3 Size Increases Large, huge, gargantuan... and you can become large easily and cheaply by item, or permanced enlarge person. Its common and makes sense when you start automatically winning vs everything you can hit with a standard action. Now some of these dudes may not let you do that easily but these gritters die instantly if you ever hit them.
Hmm... whats that look like.
+4 from becoming large (an actual size increase that you'll buy) Large size
+12 from fighter 3 size increases (Count as colossal)
+4 from master at arms
+4 from improved bull rush.
+10 30 str
+2 from being large.
36 before rolling... 38 if you actually charge well assume you don't for the purpose of this.
Balor + 12 from strength + 4 from large. 16.
If you get a standard action balor dies.
Titan + 16 strength + 8 from size. 24 pre-roll
Titan dies.
Solars are large sized, and weaker than balor.
Tarrasque +17 str + 16 size: 33 before rolling.
Even if you don't kill it, you have a better chance of coup de gracing this thing pretty frequently. Further you still deal damage so that might kill it too.

These are NOT mooks.

Setting aside the fact that Balors, Titans, and Solars all cast 9th level spells and don't need to engage in melee combat at all, bull rushing the terrasque isn't exactly what I had in mind. I will... attempt to rectify this without watering down Juggernaut/Master of Arms too badly.

EDIT: Halved size bonuses from Juggernaut; nixed the coup de grace effect from Master of Arms, moved the auto-daze to 19th level, changed the 7th level effect to an auto-stagger.

[Bozwevial]

Quick question: Do you actually have to be larger than an opponent to get the style dice from juggernaut, or do the style's virtual size increases work?

[Midnight_v]

Setting aside the fact that Balors, Titans, and Solars all cast 9th level spells and don't need to engage in melee combat at all

Well no shit Actually allow me to set aside some of the needless hostlitly for a second
in anycase. . . ...as I mentioned:
"some of these dudes may not let you do that easily but these critters die instantly if you ever hit them."

  I'm gonna make this as clear as possible. Fighters? They can already fight... Can you create something  diffuse enough that the damage they do; makes doing that damage more interesting? Yes.
  However....

Setting aside the fact that Balors, Titans, and Solars all cast 9th level spells and don't need to engage in melee combat at all

Why should we set that aside at all?
  The fact that you can't set aside that fact really and maintain relavance is actually the problem. If there isn't soemthing that adressess the fact that they can't do what we say in the marines "close with and engage the enemy" then what have you really accopmlished? With any fighter fix?
  Sit and look that square in the eye for a second. This is similar if more complex looking than those people who make fighter fixes where the fighter does "MORE DAMAGE!" and gets "MORE FEATS!" givning a fighter, spot, listen, and knowldege any, and honestly proffession for shiggles and gets are just common sense... that reeally every class should have.

[bkdubs123]

Setting aside the fact that Balors, Titans, and Solars all cast 9th level spells and don't need to engage in melee combat at all

Well no shit Actually allow me to set aside some of the needless hostlitly for a second

Whoa, man, I wasn't being hostile. I agreed with you that it needs toned down and then I toned it down. Chill out.

Quick question: Do you actually have to be larger than an opponent to get the style dice from juggernaut, or do the style's virtual size increases work?

The virtual size increases work, I just couldn't think of a good reminder text way of saying that.

[Midnight_v]

Chill out.

Chilled.  Here let me make it up to you
That was bleed from talking to Kaelik and Oslecamo in that other thread. Sorry.

Arms Lore (Ex): Starting at 8th level, when crafting masterwork weapons or armor a Fighter may add an enhancement bonus up to 1/2 his class level half of which may be magical properties. To do so costs him extra gp equal to half the total value of the enhancements and properties, but does not increase the time required to create the items.

This effectively grants him the Craft Magic Arms & Armor feat, but he may craft these items despite having no caster level and without knowing the requisite spells as long as those spells are not of a level higher than 1/2 his Fighter class levels.

He may also identify magical weapon or armor properties of items he handles with an Appraise check as a free action against DC 20 + highest spell level among spells required to add the property.

Why not let him just craft his own weapons? Flat out. Normally only samurai get that power, but I'm not suggesting it as a discount just kind of the same things as this and forge lore but making it weaker than a caster doing the same... seems pointless. Frankly "The Axe of Brumyir the indestructable" may well be made awesome by its closeness to Brumyir, as opposed to being made by whistler or whoever.

[bkdubs123]

Why not let him just craft his own weapons? Flat out. Normally only samurai get that power, but I'm not suggesting it as a discount just kind of the same things as this and forge lore but making it weaker than a caster doing the same... seems pointless. Frankly "The Axe of Brumyir the indestructable" may well be made awesome by its closeness to Brumyir, as opposed to being made by whistler or whoever.

I thought that's what Arms Lore was doing. Hmm... what did I word wrong? It's supposed to be that the Fighter crafts a masterwork sword, in the time it takes him to craft a masterwork sword, using the Craft (Weaponsmithing) skill, and then it just gets to be automatically magic. That's what I want it to do anyway.

Chilled.  Here let me make it up to you
That was bleed from talking to Kaelik and Oslecamo in that other thread. Sorry.

Also, thank you for the beer. I had a feeling that's all it was. I do not have conversations with trolls. It usually just confuses any people I'm trying to educate and just gets me really pissed.

[RobbyPants]

I thought that's what Arms Lore was doing. Hmm... what did I word wrong? It's supposed to be that the Fighter crafts a masterwork sword, in the time it takes him to craft a masterwork sword, using the Craft (Weaponsmithing) skill, and then it just gets to be automatically magic. That's what I want it to do anyway.

That's how I read it.

[Midnight_v]

I thought that's what Arms Lore was doing. Hmm... what did I word wrong? It's supposed to be that the Fighter crafts a masterwork sword, in the time it takes him to craft a masterwork sword, using the Craft (Weaponsmithing) skill, and then it just gets to be automatically magic. That's what I want it to do anyway.

That's how I read it.

Wow. No. I reread it. Works corrrectly, thats perfect. My bad.