Author Topic: Epic Archery vs infinite deflection, exceptional deflection, deflect arrows  (Read 5215 times)

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lianightdemon

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Is there anyway for an epic level archer to overcome these feats and deflect arrows while still focusing on their archery?
They have access to force and splitting bow.

CantripN

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Can the target block arrows when it can't move or isn't aware of them? Make that happen by some means.

Worst case scenario, attack the ground near the target with an Explosive bow/arrow. Area damage works.

There are multiple ways to use bows to make area attacks - those work just fine, too.
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SorO_Lost

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Those feats are hardly a threat. How will you overcome effects like Stormrage (clr/drd 8; immune to projectile attacks) and Friendly Fire (drd/wiz/sor 4; redirect any ranged touch)? They aren't even epic abilities either.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Bozwevial

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Yeah, it actually is trivially easy to screw over ranged attackers.

That said, Deflect Arrows has a Dexterity prerequisite. Keep a way to use Shivering Touch handy on the off chance you ever run into someone who took those feats.

lianightdemon

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Don't force arrows go through those still? heard being force lets them go through wind walls and stuff.
As for friendly fire that spell is too broken and I don't have that book.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 05:18:59 PM by lianightdemon »

SorO_Lost

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Don't force arrows go through those still? heard being force lets them go through wind walls and stuff.
As for friendly fire that spell is too broken and I don't have that book.
It kind of is. Ray Deflection is also 4th level and it only makes you immune to ranged touch attacks rather than the added effect of reflecting them.

The way Stormrage is written suggest it doesn't care about Wind Wall but you may have with with Force.
You harness the powers of wind and storm to move, protect yourself, and attack. = Flavor, not rules.
You can fly at a speed of 40 feet, and you gain immunity to thrown weapons and projectile ranged attacks. = Immunity to comets & meteors.

Energy isn't a projectile and since Friendly Fire only guards against Ranged Touch Attacks, you may have established the minimum point in which to build from.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Bauglir

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Energy isn't a projectile

Since when?
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

skydragonknight

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Spell-storing arrows. Even if they're deflected the spell goes off on contact. And being immune to the attack (as Stormrage) is not the same as the attack failing (like Wind Wall), so it gets through that too.

That really just leaves wind wall as an obstacle and a simple flying mount or other way to move and full attack beats that easily.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Scrollreader

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http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20050311a
There is the ring of weatherproofing, as well.

SorO_Lost

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Energy isn't a projectile

Since when?
Since Webster/Oxford/Who-Ever-Google-Uses defined projectile, and D&D never redefined it, and the spell whole hearty doesn't comes across as a some sort of direct-energy shield.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Bauglir

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New thread. Let's not derail this one.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

skydragonknight

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As far as projectile weapons go, the ones in the PHB are spelled out under the header Projectile Weapons:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm

[spoiler]"Projectile Weapons

Light crossbows, slings, heavy crossbows, shortbows, composite shortbows, longbows, composite longbows, hand crossbows, and repeating crossbows are projectile weapons. Most projectile weapons require two hands to use (see specific weapon descriptions). A character gets no Strength bonus on damage rolls with a projectile weapon unless it’s a specially built composite shortbow, specially built composite longbow, or sling. If the character has a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when he or she uses a bow or a sling."[/spoiler]

I'm not sure if there's a general description somewhere else or not, but anything fired from those weapons is a projectile ranged attack unless specified otherwise.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

SorO_Lost

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@Sky, yeah fits the term projectile exactly.
Energy weapons are not projectiles so anything energy based bypasses Stormlord's autoproject deflection.

Apparently Baugilr has some case for Force Arrows not really being energy, but regardless of that outcome, Hank's Bow really does shoot energy and so just buy one of those.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Bauglir

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That's true, the projectiles fired by Hank's Bow do not act as arrows, unless you decide the fluff text of "fire arrows of pure magical force" overrides the rules text for some inane reason. They have other limitations (you deal 2d6 points of damage, that is it), but hell. That's just fine for what is a backup option when your standard arrow rain of doom doesn't work.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

SorO_Lost

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That's true, the projectiles fired by Hank's Bow do not act as arrows, unless you decide the fluff text of "fire arrows of pure magical force" overrides the rules text for some inane reason. They have other limitations (you deal 2d6 points of damage, that is it), but hell. That's just fine for what is a backup option when your standard arrow rain of doom doesn't work.
If nothing else you should be using it to begin with. You can fire normal arrows and augment things like Splitting into Hank's Bow to begin with, the option to use Power Attack with ranged attacks is just plain gravy if you have a high attack bonus.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]