Author Topic: So I'm gonna stress test a single guy's dungeon... & now I have to op a party!  (Read 6510 times)

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Gavinfoxx

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I would rather go with Breastplate than Full Plate, I mean.  I usually skip chainmail entirely...
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Kajhera

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I would rather go with Breastplate than Full Plate, I mean.  I usually skip chainmail entirely...

My point was, if it's a choice between wearing somewhat sub-par armor and losing access to the class you want to play, chainmail may be worth it. Mithril full plate still doesn't have -5 armor check penalty.

Other options are breastplate with a buckler, or chain shirt with destana, chahar-aina, and buckler (all non-masterwork). Last has the benefit of being light armor even, but disadvantage of, well, not being magical and taking a -1 to two-handed attacks.

Prime32

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Make sure the caster has an enveloping pit and knows blink so they can move the party through walls.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 10:44:09 AM by Prime32 »
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LargePrime

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Cause... chainmail sucks?  I want him to have good armor, not crappy armor?
one of the best armors in the game is chainmail, chri-anna, and dastana.  honestly it is not even close at higher levels

Nunkuruji

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Skimmed this, but quick random thoughts

Levels 5-14 progression
If Wizard, definitely collegiate wizard
If sorc/kobold, can time be taken to Greater Rite
How much time can be taken between tests for that matter
Is Vow of Poverty greater WBL than the 20k
Given dungeon setting, assume cramped environment, definitely reach/lockdown threat
Adamantite weapon for smashing dungeon obstacles
Shadow/Dark Template, Darkhidden Ring, Darkstalker, etc. assuming there's no rooms of daylight
Trapfinding/Disable Device perhaps isn't specifically necessary between Search Check for mundane & detect magic/arcane sight for magic traps...
Team flight asap for pits, or bypassing other such obstacles.
True Seeing for other trap bullcrap, Beguiler Beguiler/Beguiler Familiar
Reserve Feat summon elemental spam, or similar via Binder, pop traps
Ability to animate dead/dominate/etc. defeated opponents to throw them at next encounters, or otherwise snowballing an army

Aliek

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How cheesy would you want it? I'm pretty sure "No infinite loops" would be a nice starting point, but then how about early entry on PrCs and such stuff? Also, what about flaws? I love building characters, and even have some very powerful ideas on, but I need to check on what would go through.

X-Codes

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Levels 5-14 progression
I think it's actually levels 5-10.
If Wizard, definitely collegiate wizard
Definitely.  I would consider just not being a Wizard for this one.
Is Vow of Poverty greater WBL than the 20k
Unless there's more treasure in the dungeon, yes.  VoP will substantially out-pace WBL, and if the items in the Dungeon are simply +1 swords (or items of that nature), then VoP might be preferable on at least one character, anyway, to get better WBL to the other players (sure, he's supposed to donate them to charity... but until he gets to a church, the party might as well use them, anyway).
Trapfinding/Disable Device perhaps isn't specifically necessary between Search Check for mundane & detect magic/arcane sight for magic traps...
It's necessary by the rules the DM has put forward, apparently.
Reserve Feat summon elemental spam, or similar via Binder, pop traps
Summon Elemental is probably more practical.  Binder Summoning doesn't come online until the run is almost over.
Ability to animate dead/dominate/etc. defeated opponents to throw them at next encounters, or otherwise snowballing an army
Good idea here.

Aliek

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Well, I had some ideas, kinda cheesy to have a party like this but...

A cleric 4/crusader 1/RKV 7/??? could work both as the "heavy dude" and the healer. In fact, you could probably do some awesome lockdown with it. I'd go as far as to say you should try to squeeze some huge single target damage in there too, for some four-on-one boss battles.

For the one who manages traps, you could probably go factotum 5/chameleon 10. That'd be awesomely strong and versatile too.

Now that we are free from the requirements with two very strong party members already, let's complement it.

Someone who kills stuff fast. I'd say something along the lines of swordsage/telflammar shadowlord, tough I'm not too well versed on this kind of build. Still, if you can manage "kill 3 guys in one turn, run back home and prepare for the next onslaught" kind of thing, that'd be exactly what to look for. As they say, it doesn't matter if you do a hundred thousand damage in a charge if you'll just kill one guy. In practice, there usually is more than one. Also, I love the flavor of blinking around in the battlefield bringing death to those close to his destination. You could probably get some more power in there, but yeah. I assume this would be the best choice for a "striker" here, but usually I'm more in the ubercharger part of the CO  :lmao

And lastly we need a god. This build uses early entry and stuff, so bear with me
If no flaws are allowed, at level 1 chose human and extend spell, sanctum spell, spell focus(abjuration) and go wizard 2. Then get a level in master specialist and the iron will feat. Know where we are headed? Oh yeah, incantatrix 4. While there, greater spell focus(abjuration) as your 6th level feat, persist spell as your first metamagic feat. Now, just go in initiate of the sevenfold veil and make them all cry. Problem is, you can't really go iotsv before level 9. You are level 7, so what to do with those two levels? Well, you could get two more of master specialist to gain a free feat, instead of using your 6h level feat for greater spell focus, or just using something else. Or you could ditch iotsv altogether, but meh. I like that class too  :lmao
It should end up as Wizard 2/Master Specialist 1/Incantatrix 4/??? 2/initiate of the sevenfold veil 5

This party should just breeze through mostly any content made for a regular party, I'd say. So it might be a bit too much.

Saxony

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Several very valid points there but I actually prefer the crusaders recovery mechanism, having played several I know that you can pretty easily fill their readied manuver slots with only the better manuvers and unlike the warblade you can use one every turn no matter how long the fight goes on.

As far as Devoted Spirit goes sure, It isnt the best of the diciplines but it has its gems, Thicket of Blades is pretty awesome and Castigating Strike/Divine Surge are good fun for some damage. Greater Divine Surge followed up with Strike of righteous vitality is pretty awesome for damage at higher levels too. Pretty  much every crusader ever takes Extra Granted Manuver and they are nowhere near as random as people like to point out.

Thicket of blades is so good in fact that I quite often see people recommending dropping 2 feats just to get it (In a lockdown build at least). A Crusader could do similar if they felt the pressing need for Iron Heart Surge.

I am not arguing that its better than a Warblade, I just don't think that it justifies that reaction.
You raise valid points of your own. I think Warblades are a more powerful class in most situations, but in certain situations, the crusader is just plain better. It is better at absorbing hitpoint damage, that's for sure. And if you need to take that damage, you always want to be a crusader instead, especially at low levels when +2 or +4 hp every round is godlike.
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Dictum Mortuum

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1) Crusader warforged with adamantine plating (is the DR applied twice? once when they hit you and once again when your delayed damage pool empties? dunno)
2) focused transmuter going into war weaver (toughening transmutation for fun - boost warforged's DR)
3) factotum or rogue 1/cloistered cleric x with able learner
4) bard 1/cleric x (or cloistered cleric) with initiate of milil and extra music, with inspire courage boosters.
5) bard 1/crusader x with song of the white raven and extra music
6) artificer if you're not bored
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nightshade

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- For the Skillmonkey I'd try Factotum 3 / Chameleon 7 with Item Familiar early entry. You need to be human, have an Int of 18 and the feat Nymphs kiss if i remember correctly.

- A focused something War Weaver

- A Summoning Druid, maybe even Bard 1/Druid for Inspire Courage

- Maybe a Dungeoncrasher Fighter as the Heavy Guy?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 05:58:52 AM by nightshade »

Littha

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1) Crusader warforged with adamantine plating (is the DR applied twice? once when they hit you and once again when your delayed damage pool empties? dunno)

quite possibly by RAW... then again steely resolve actually doubles the damage you take if you follow a particular reading...

JohnnyMayHymn

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Early entry Master of Shrouds can be pretty good at those levels,

Also factotum1, ghost4

Archivist, malconvoker

I can't help but mention bloodlines with Item familiar and Improved Binding plus any Binder PrC, you can get zceryll pretty early - though this relies heavily on the DM's version of this cave aged gruyere.
Big Guy could be BinderX, KoSSX for Zercyll at 5th or 6th.    That should break it

Edit: thrallherd all the way, use Kalashtar(race) and that feat that lets you learn a power if needed for entry
Sneak/traps: psionic rogueX, thrallherd1
Big guy: psychic warriorX, thrallherd1
"Healer" is either a thrall or StP EruditeX, thrallherd1 or ardentX, thrallherd1
Thralls are whatever really druid/archivist/wizard/artificer?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 07:56:28 AM by JohnnyMayHymn »
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X-Codes

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1) Crusader warforged with adamantine plating (is the DR applied twice? once when they hit you and once again when your delayed damage pool empties? dunno)

quite possibly by RAW... then again steely resolve actually doubles the damage you take if you follow a particular reading...
This sounds like an issue for Errata to resolve! ...oh, wait.

Dictum Mortuum

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My sample party would be:

Tank) Elan Psion 4/Crusader 1 (later Slayer levels) with enhanced elan resilience and a power points recharge trick; possibly a mindfeefer weapon for long-duration buffs (along with gray bags of tricks). Uses Vigor, Share Pain with his crystal and possibly biofeedback. Practiced Manifester?
Skills) Changeling Rogue 1/Druid 4 (later more Druid levels) with able learner. You can get that item from complete champion that boosts your effective wild shape level by +1 to get your lost one back. Wild shapes and summons critters.
Arcane) Human Focused Transmuter 5 (later War Weaver) is a martial wizard and gets Martial Study and later a Crown of the White Raven for the Leading the Charge stance (alternatively you or your familiar can get Dragon Aura[Power]). He later gets Improved Familiar (Earth, Salt or Glass Mephit - or Howler). He will need to weave 5 people to his tapestry: Tank, Skills and his companion, his familiar and Divine.
Divine) Human or Illumian Bard 1/Cloistered Cleric 4 (later more Cleric levels) with Melodic Casting or a Harmonizing weapon, Dragon Below/Summoner domains, Twin or Repeat Spell and DMM(Twin or Repeat Spell). He also uses Badge of Valor, Eternal Wand (Inspirational Boost); Words of Creation are probably out as cults of the dragon below are evil.

Edit: thrallherd all the way, use Kalashtar(race) and that feat that lets you learn a power if needed for entry
Sneak/traps: psionic rogueX, thrallherd1
Big guy: psychic warriorX, thrallherd1
"Healer" is either a thrall or StP EruditeX, thrallherd1 or ardentX, thrallherd1
Thralls are whatever really druid/archivist/wizard/artificer?

Hey! That's cheating!
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 07:10:16 PM by Dictum Mortuum »
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Mixster

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How about:

Grey Elf Necropolitan Conjurer 2/Master Specialist 3 (goes into incantatrix but for now he is summoning), takes Faeries Mysteries Initiate.
Grey Elf Necropolitan StP Erudite 5 w/ faeries Mysteries initate
Star Elf Ghost 1(bought off)/Dread Necromancer 5 Also with Faeries Mysteries Initiate.
Star Elf Ghost 1 (bought off)/Bard 3/Warblade 2 With Song of the White Raven

Alternatively, a White Dragonspawn Loredrake Kobold?

Or if you just want to cheese it up:
Loredrake Kobold Sorcerer with Dragonspawn.
Aberrant Wild Shape Divine Minion 1(bought off)/Beholder Mage 5 W/ Boccobs Blessed Book and Arcane Disciple.
Abberrant Wild Shape Divine Minion 1/Warblade 2/Bard 3
Star Elf Ghost 2 (one Bought off)/StP Erudite 4 W/ Faeries Mysteries Initiate.

The ghost will enter Thrallherd at next level, in 3 level the Warblade/Bard will enter Illithid Savant. The Beholder Mage will just be the main killing machine and the Star Elf Ghost is the main tank with his insane amount of HP (16+Int per level)
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Ikeren

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Level 5 is also the level that DMM persist clerics come online; Rod of Extend (3000gp) + all feats + planning/undeath gets you 6 persists of 3rd level or lower; Ice Axe (SpC) = 2d12+2 damage as touch attack, Recitation (swap to Purification domain) for +3 attack, ac, saves, Chanelled Divine Shield (DR 10/Evil is about all you need at level 5), Balor Nimbus, Lesser Vigor Mass, and 1 more option.

Here's a sample; http://www.dndonlinegames.com/profiler/view.php?id=227

Endarire

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How did this stress test go?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Gavinfoxx

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Didn't happen... the guy wasn't asking for people to test his dungeon, he wanted to test a party...
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idontmuchcareforit

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Heavy Guy/Healer
Cloistered Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10
Knowledge Devotion and Divine Metamagic Cheese is a must.

"Rogue"
Rogue 1/Diviner 4/Unseen Seer 10
I really like born of 3 thunders with quick recovery for this build.  Extend Spell for safe sleeping with Rope Trick.

Dat Singin' Guy/Party Face/Can't Fail a Save
Bard 1/Paladin of Freedom 2/Bard 2-8/Sublime Chord 5
Badge of Courage, Inspirational Boost, Words of Creation, use a horn. +5Attack/Damage/Saves vs. Fear @lvl5
Wand in one hand, sword in the other.  Snowflake wardance; Power attack; Divine Might.  Hit like a truck.  Take Dat leadership.

He who summons things that are affected by bardic music
Druid 15
Vow of Poverty is certainly an option.  Augment summoning etc.  Summon wolf packs.

edit:
In spite of 3 of the 4 party members being able to heal, don't.  At least not during combat.  If you want healing, summon a unicorn, or use goodberry spam, or lesser vigor spam.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 12:34:26 PM by idontmuchcareforit »