Author Topic: Frank and K Jester  (Read 2212 times)

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linklord231

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Frank and K Jester
« on: October 05, 2011, 06:18:42 AM »
Sorry if this is the wrong place, but I was wondering if anyone has any experience with Frank and K's Jester?  I really like the flavor, but I'm concerned about the balance.  I know Frank and K stuff tends to be balanced around Tier 1 level, but I was hoping someone could confirm or deny this for me. 

Bozwevial

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Re: Frank and K Jester
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2011, 06:28:58 AM »
It looks pretty decent to me. A modest spell progression, a defensive ability, sneak attack, poison use, a means of reliably getting sneak attack damage, a good intimidation ability...it all adds up to something pretty solid.

bkdubs123

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Re: Frank and K Jester
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2011, 06:40:00 AM »
it all adds up to something pretty solid.

But it's by no means whatsoever a Tier 1 class. It is however a powerful Tier 3 class, more powerful than your normal Tier 3 class. It will have a good option in just about any situation you could imagine, from combat to dinner party, and it has solid defensive capabilities. Round by round it will generally be undaunted by whatever is thrown at it - it just isn't going to be able to warp reality and break the universe to deal with its problems.

linklord231

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Re: Frank and K Jester
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2011, 07:05:30 AM »
OK thanks.  That's what I came away with after looking at it too, I just wanted to know if I was overlooking something.  But does anyone have any in-game experience with it? 
My character concept for him is basically this:
A man in a suit and a Guy Fawkes mask taps you on the shoulder.  You turn around, and he's holding a Colossal greatsword, which he bops you with before you can react.  You laugh because it was made out of foam and didn't hurt at all.  Then your arm falls off, and he laughs when you realize it wasn't made out of foam after all. 

bkdubs123

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Re: Frank and K Jester
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2011, 07:27:13 AM »
But does anyone have any in-game experience with it?

Unfortunately, no. I prefer games on the lower end of Tier 3, so when I look at most Tome classes I see a garish mess of unnecessarily powerful mechanics piled upon one another. *shrug*

There's a lot of great ideas and insightful design in Tome works, but it always feels slapdash and lazy to me. I would be interested in playing in a full-on Tome rules game though.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 07:30:04 AM by bkdubs123 »

RobbyPants

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Re: Frank and K Jester
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2011, 01:51:18 PM »
OK thanks.  That's what I came away with after looking at it too, I just wanted to know if I was overlooking something.  But does anyone have any in-game experience with it? 
Not quite yet. I'm running a solo Tome game right now and I created a level 3 Jester as an NPC, but he hasn't been introduced yet. I didn't go balls to the walls crazy with him. I just have him using a large maul, acid flasks, and alchemists fire. Basically, he should play like a semi-weak flask rogue with decent spells, and the maul will be handy at low levels.

Sadly, by the time I have much more data than this, this thread will probably be several pages back. ;)
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RobbyPants

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Re: Frank and K Jester
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2011, 01:53:44 PM »
it all adds up to something pretty solid.

But it's by no means whatsoever a Tier 1 class. It is however a powerful Tier 3 class, more powerful than your normal Tier 3 class. It will have a good option in just about any situation you could imagine, from combat to dinner party, and it has solid defensive capabilities. Round by round it will generally be undaunted by whatever is thrown at it - it just isn't going to be able to warp reality and break the universe to deal with its problems.
I agree with this. Looking at the wiki that currently houses the tome rules, they have it listed as Rogue level, which kinda translates into tier 3.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

Midnight_v

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Re: Frank and K Jester
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2011, 02:48:55 PM »
  Actually most of the tier classes are solidly tier 3 by definition. Most people who speak out negatively about it, you'll find have no ACTUAL experiece playing it.
 That being said while I've played the assassin and barbarian, and monk. . . The jester is never 1 I got into...
It'd be interesting to do a full analysis though. Maybe I can squeeze it in today or tommorw.

Edit: I just took a quick look at this and it looks very similar to Bard + prestige class. It has bad bab (which actually does mean something in Tome games)but a really decent spell list and it gets something useful every level.
What I came away thinking was... if you felt like the headache you could likely get a hodgepodge version of this thing in ACTUAL 3.5. So... I like it. I like that it does the concept well without being broken, and minus the needless pouring through books. Also... the damned jesters class abilites all make sense.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 02:57:04 PM by Midnight_v »
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awaken DM golem

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Re: Frank and K Jester
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2011, 12:33:30 AM »
I clicked the link.

I was listening to a Jazz Piano trio.
All the sudden the Kardashians (!) interrupted the music.
Jester = ha, I get it.