Author Topic: Build me a REAL assassin  (Read 16788 times)

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brujon

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Re: Build me a REAL assassin
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2011, 06:08:18 PM »
@brujon: What are Telflammar Shadowlord and Rokugan Ninja?

@Mixster: How so? I was always under the impression that that class sort of self-destructed from sucking...

@Cagemarrow: Ew... too cheesy. The fact that an expert can pull that off makes me shudder. Remember: bonus points for up-close and personal!

@Soro: Nice. Now, where did you get the idea for that weapon template? I've never seen anything like that before. Is there a precedent for such a thing?

Rokugan ninja is this: http://antioch.snow-fall.com/files/members/Endarire/DnD/Rokugan%20Ninja.pdf

Telflammar Shadowlord is a prestige class from Unapproachable East that gets Shadow Pounce at level 4. What this means is, every time you teleport/dimension door/shadow jump next to an opponent, you can immediately make a full attack. This breaks action economy, because Swordsage has access to a move action, a standard action, and a swift action dimension-door like ability. Which means if you're so inclined, you can pounce 3 times in a row. With battle jump for jump initiated charge, plus belt of battle or other ways of getting more actions, you can put the number of full attacks in the 8's or 10's. The downside to Telflammar Shadowlord is that it requires a lot of suboptimal feats, and a +1 template or a means of casting dimension door or having it as a spell like ability(Which often requires more effort than simply getting the template and buying it off). Crinti Shadow Marauder is another prestige that gets Shadow Pounce, and it's from Shining South. Requires less feats, but more levels (you have to take all 5), and you only get shadow pounce if mounted. (Good if you're a halfling with a Blink Dog cohort). Both are good ways of going about an assassin, because the more attacks you get, the more sneak attack damage you'll be getting.

The problem is that going the melee route as an assassin will almost always be suboptimal compared to going the arcane assassin route, or the divine assassin or the psionic assassin route, because spells/powers give you so much power. Unseen Seer is a good way of going about it, because they're a full spellcasting progressing class, with a good skill list and progresses sneak attack. Go in it with a Beguiler/Rogue base and it's really nice.

SorO_Lost

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Re: Build me a REAL assassin
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2011, 08:32:16 PM »
Both are good ways of going about an assassin charger, because the more attacks you get, the more sneak attack damage you'll be getting doing. Period.

The problem is that going the melee route as an assassin will almost always be suboptimal compared to going the arcane assassin route, or the divine assassin or the psionic assassin route, because spells/powers give you so much power.
Fixed and reminder: Highest points go to the most creative builds! Go for stylish kills if you can, and, for heaven's sake, be classy! I don't want any infinite loops.

StP Erudite isn't going to be the top winner despite being "the most powerful", you need style. You could have at least tacked on some sale of a spear using fire breathing zombie ninja's teleport attack or something.

You know Ezio pretty much picked up dedicated followers by swooping in Batman style and murdering would be thieves and such. A higher end Charisma score isn't unfathomable; Iaijitsu Master can add a lot of hurt against Flat-Footed foes. And Arcane Swordsage can be dipped in and out of for Half-CL stacking advancement for things like Mindbender or even the almighty Swiftblade. Choices choices.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Rebel7284

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Re: Build me a REAL assassin
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2011, 08:45:54 PM »
Both are good ways of going about an assassin charger, because the more attacks you get, the more sneak attack damage you'll be getting doing. Period.

The problem is that going the melee route as an assassin will almost always be suboptimal compared to going the arcane assassin route, or the divine assassin or the psionic assassin route, because spells/powers give you so much power.
Fixed and reminder: Highest points go to the most creative builds! Go for stylish kills if you can, and, for heaven's sake, be classy! I don't want any infinite loops.

StP Erudite isn't going to be the top winner despite being "the most powerful", you need style. You could have at least tacked on some sale of a spear using fire breathing zombie ninja's teleport attack or something.

You know Ezio pretty much picked up dedicated followers by swooping in Batman style and murdering would be thieves and such. A higher end Charisma score isn't unfathomable; Iaijitsu Master can add a lot of hurt against Flat-Footed foes. And Arcane Swordsage can be dipped in and out of for Half-CL stacking advancement for things like Mindbender or even the almighty Swiftblade. Choices choices.

Human Paragon/Monk with maxed UMD!
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SneeR

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Re: Build me a REAL assassin
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2011, 09:51:28 PM »
Human Paragon/Monk with maxed UMD!

Hey, hey, hey! I said no cheese!
We just want to kill one person, not wreck the entire campaign world!
The answer to everything:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
SneeR
[spoiler]
I don't know if the designers meant you to take Skill Focus for every feat.
Sounds a little OP.

The monk is clearly the best class, no need to optimize here. What you are doing is overkill.

It's like people who have no idea what a turn signal is. They ruin it for everyone else.
When another driver brandishes a holy symbol and begins glowing with divine light, seek cover or get spattered with zombie brains. I do not see what is so complicated about this.
[/spoiler]

Caelic

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Re: Build me a REAL assassin
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2011, 09:56:45 PM »
A work in progress

ARCADIO POISONTONGUE, THE ICONOCLAST

Neutral Evil Half-Elf Bard 4/Marshal 1/Ur-Priest 10

STR: 8
DEX: 10
CON: 12
INT: 14
WIS: 30 (+3 level, +5 inherent, +6 item)
CHA: 27 (+5 inherent, +6 item)

BAB: +10/+5
FORT: +6
REF: +7
WILL: +13

SKILLS: Perform 8 (+24,) Bluff 18 (+34,) Diplomacy 18 (+43,) Sense Motive 10 (+20,) Gather Information 18 (+40,) Hide 10 (+10,) Move Silently 10 (+10,) Use Magic Device 10 (+26)

1. Half-Elf Bard 1: Bardic Music, Bardic Knowledge, Countersong, Soothing Voice, Inspire Courage +1, Able Learner
2. Bard 2
3. Bard 3: Inspire Competence, Extend Spell
4. Marshal 1: Skill Focus (Diplomacy,) Motivate Charisma
5. Bard 4
6. Ur-Priest 1: Persistent Spell
7. Ur-Priest 2: Rebuke Undead
8. Ur-Priest 3:
9. Ur-Priest 4: Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell)
10. Ur-Priest 5:
11. Ur-Priest 6: Siphon Spell Power
12. Ur-Priest 7: Darkstalker
13. Ur-Priest 8: Divine Spell Resistance 20
14. Ur-Priest 9:
15. Ur-Priest 10: Steal spell-like ability


BACKGROUND: Arcadio is not your run-of-the-mill assassin.  He can't be, given his rather specialized area of expertise: Arcadio hunts and kills clerics.  The god matters not; the faith matters not.   All that matters to him is whittling away at the power of the gods, one worshipper at a time...until such time as he can hunt the gods themselves.  

To hunt the gods--a mad goal, by most reckonings.  Indeed, some call him mad, but only in whispers, and never in his presence.  Rumor has it that as a young man, Arcadio loved a woman, and beseeched the priests of his faith to heal her when she fell ill.  Since her family had offended their god, they refused; Arcadio turned to other gods instead, but the fact that the family had been declared anathema by the most powerful church in the city was commonly known.  For fear of angering such a powerful temple, the other priests from whom he sought aid made excuses, and the woman died.  With her died a part of Arcadio; what was left in its place was the belief that the gods were cruel and capricious, and undeserving of man's worship.

The first priest to die at Arcadio's hand...so the story goes...was the high priest of his own temple.  Since then, there have been more...many, many more.

From time to time, Arcadio takes on a contract that doesn't directly relate to his quest.  Why he accepts certain contracts and not others is a mystery; there seems to be no obvious pattern, and those who pry too deeply into his affairs have a way of vanishing for good.


TACTICS: Arcadio normally operates Shapeshifted into the form of an Ethereal Doppelganger, using the creature's abilities of Assume Identity and Mind Wipe to get close to the victim.   Coupled with his ability to steal spell-like abilities, this tactic lends him phenomenal versatility.  If a task requires skills he lacks, or arcane spells, he can assume an identity that has those abilities.  (He keeps several prisoners in Temporal Stasis for precisely this reason.)  His own phenomenal powers of persuasion allow him to ferret out most secrets, talk his way out of most fights, and convince even the most suspicious opponent of his obvious sincerity...right up until the moment when it's too late.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 10:02:45 PM by Caelic »

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Build me a REAL assassin
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2011, 10:03:41 PM »
ARCADIO POISONTONGUE, THE ICONOCLAST
Why is he evil?

He's doing something wonderful.

Those bastards need to die.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Caelic

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Re: Build me a REAL assassin
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2011, 10:08:22 PM »
ARCADIO POISONTONGUE, THE ICONOCLAST
Why is he evil?

He's doing something wonderful.

Those bastards need to die.


Stare into the void long enough, and the void stares back.  He has a few lines he won't cross in his quest, but only a few.

SneeR

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Re: Build me a REAL assassin
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2011, 02:12:56 AM »
Caelic, you have created an awesome monster amongst men.
The answer to everything:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
SneeR
[spoiler]
I don't know if the designers meant you to take Skill Focus for every feat.
Sounds a little OP.

The monk is clearly the best class, no need to optimize here. What you are doing is overkill.

It's like people who have no idea what a turn signal is. They ruin it for everyone else.
When another driver brandishes a holy symbol and begins glowing with divine light, seek cover or get spattered with zombie brains. I do not see what is so complicated about this.
[/spoiler]