Author Topic: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?  (Read 12158 times)

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sirpercival

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #80 on: October 04, 2011, 06:06:09 PM »
I don't actually have that one, I was going off of this (each of these requires giving up your familiar), from http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/251331-3-5-good-alternative-having-familiar.html :

[spoiler]Aligned Spellcaster - Choose a non-neutral portion of your alignment. Spells you cast have that alignment descriptor (unless they have the opposite alignment descriptor), and such spells that are targeted against creatures of the opposite alignment are at +1 caster level (+2 if it has the opposing alignment subtype).

Beleaguered Spellcaster - When you take damage equal to three times your spellcaster level from one attack (up to [1 + your spellcasting ability modifier] times per day), the next spell you cast is automatically empowered or maximized (your choice) without increasing the casting time or spell level.

Disciple of Boccob - You are treated as 1 level higher to qualify for magic item creation feats, and magic items you create are treated as being +1 caster level higher. If you destroy a permanent magic item, you lose all arcane spellcasting abilities for 1 day per caster level of the destroyed item.

Eidetic Spellcaster - You do not need a spellbook, either to prepare spells or record new ones. You gain/learn new spells normally otherwise, including paying the appropriate gold pieces (for special incenses) when acquiring new spells that aren't from gaining a level.

Impromptu Metamagic - Each day you choose a metamagic feat you have. A number of times per day equal to (5 - the spell level increase of the feat) you may spontaneously apply that feat to a spell as you cast it, with no increase in casting time or spell level. You must still have the ability to cast spells of the level the spell would have if the feat were applied to it normally.[...]
[/spoiler]

Impromptu metamagic might be best for you, actually.  And Disciple of Boccob is perfect for our crafter!
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]

sirpercival

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #81 on: October 04, 2011, 06:17:20 PM »

Just so you get the idea, my dream Wiz is one that has his own plane where he keeps his laboratory, a Wiz that will take Ice Castle, just because it's that cool.

You guys optimize, I'll be the one crafting and learning dumb spells in the background.   :lmao

One question for the DMs: Do Extraordinary Artisan and Magical Artisan stack?

Are you gonna be a gnome and go for Maester? Or just a human or something for the bonus feat?

Definitely swap out your familiar for Disciple of Boccob, that will be awesome. 

Oh, oh, oh.  You should go Anima Mage and pick up Astaroth!  That way you can craft whatever you want on a given day.  http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a

Illumian Binder 1/Abjurer 1/Anima Mage 4 gets you Astaroth at our starting ECL.  You can take CWI because you'll probably always want that one.  When you get up to Anima Mage 8 you can bind Zceryll (sp?) and summon aliens, too.   :smirk  (Note that you have to be Illumian to get into AM at level 3, because you can take Improved Sigil: Krau at level 1without having spellcasting ability.  If you want to be a different race it's Abj 2/Binder 1 with Precocious Apprentice.)
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #82 on: October 04, 2011, 06:31:37 PM »
Well I'm kinda digging the whole Eidetic Spellcaster theme. Plus I'm wondering how much metamagic I would actually be using on my own spells. I think a lot of my time will be for readying to toss it on someone elses spell or to counter. I'll ponder on it for now since it is just thematic and there may be a chance at something really cool out of a randomly metaed spell.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Midnight_v

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #83 on: October 04, 2011, 06:50:37 PM »
If allowed, I wouldn't mind slapping on some levels of Revised Sorcerer, as it is strictly better than the classic sorcerer at the levels we will be playing. Then I probably wouldn't even need the kobold cheese.
Well I hope not! The point of it was to make it as good as a wizard, so I gave it powers that tried to make up for getting your spells slower. Also, boiling your spells down into more useful weaker spells will free up the horrible spell limitation somewhat. So basically you get to play like all those comic book characters with "Doctor" fate/strange/doom etc, when they use magic. You can cast you regular spells no problem, but casting anything outside your expertise or canceling other peoples magics, costs you more magical power.

The second thign I tried to do was make the thing more flavorful, and open to greater interpretation.
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Mixster

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #84 on: October 04, 2011, 06:59:41 PM »
If allowed, I wouldn't mind slapping on some levels of Revised Sorcerer, as it is strictly better than the classic sorcerer at the levels we will be playing. Then I probably wouldn't even need the kobold cheese.
Well I hope not! The point of it was to make it as good as a wizard, so I gave it powers that tried to make up for getting your spells slower. Also, boiling your spells down into more useful weaker spells will free up the horrible spell limitation somewhat. So basically you get to play like all those comic book characters with "Doctor" fate/strange/doom etc, when they use magic. You can cast you regular spells no problem, but casting anything outside your expertise or canceling other peoples magics, costs you more magical power.

The second thign I tried to do was make the thing more flavorful, and open to greater interpretation.

It does, however, seem to be very focused around not multi-classing. So I guess regular sorcerer with loredrake is still better for me.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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Monotremeancer

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #85 on: October 04, 2011, 07:04:18 PM »
This is what I've got so far. I plan on grabbing Ghostly Visage as my familiar later on. With the abilities it will gain from me becoming Fiend Blooded his Ego Score will increase as well.

Edit: Also, I assumed he reached Middle Age before becoming a Necropolitan as undead do not age
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DrHorrible

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #86 on: October 04, 2011, 07:39:28 PM »
Ok, I'll make a quick recap on my PC.

Human Abjurer 5

Feats:

1st: Scribe Scrolls(Bonus), Legendary Artisan(Human), Extraordinary Artisan (1st), Magical Artisan(Craft Wondrous Items)(Flaw)
3rd: Craft Wondrous Items
5th:

Precrafted Items(waiting for approval):

Luminous Robe: Luminous Armor(Sanctified 2, BoED), Use activated or continuous spell effect. Price: 3*2*2000 = 12000 (6000 to craft) gp & 480xp.
Due to Legendary Artisan, the base price is reduced by 25%: 12000*0.25 = 3000 gp
Due to Magical Artisan, the crafting price is reduced by 25%: 12000*0.25 = 3000 gp
The final price is then: 12000 - (3000 + 3000) = 6000 gp (3000 to craft)
Due to Extraordinary Artisan, the xp cost is reduced by 25%: 480*0.25 = 120xp
Due to Magical Artisan, the xp cost is reduced by 25%: 480*0.25 = 120xp
The final cost is then: 480 - (120 + 120) = 240xp

Luminous Robe: CL3, Luminous Armor, 3000gp and 240xp


Periapt of Evil Shielding: Protection from Evil(Sor/Wiz 1, PHB), Shield(Sor/Wiz 1, PHB) Use activated or continuous spell effect, multiple effects. Price 1*1*2000*2*2 = 8000 (4000 to craft) gp & 320xp.
Due to Legendary Artisan, the base price is reduced by 25%: 8000*0.25 = 2000 gp
Due to Magical Artisan, the crafting price is reduced by 25%: 8000*0.25 = 2000 gp
The final price is then: 8000 - (2000 + 2000) = 4000 gp (2000 to craft)
Due to Extraordinary Artisan, the xp cost is reduced by 25%: 320*0.25 = 80xp
Due to Magical Artisan, the xp cost is reduced by 25%: 320*0.25= 80xp
The final cost is then: 320 - (80 + 80) = 160xp

Periapt of Evil Shielding: CL1, Protection from Evil, Shield, 2000gp and 160xp


I may come up with a couple other items, but for now I wanted to see if you were ok with these.

P.s.: For the Luminous Robe we'd have to roll the Strenght loss cause of the sacrifice component.





 
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Midnight_v

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #87 on: October 04, 2011, 07:45:08 PM »
If allowed, I wouldn't mind slapping on some levels of Revised Sorcerer, as it is strictly better than the classic sorcerer at the levels we will be playing. Then I probably wouldn't even need the kobold cheese.
Well I hope not! The point of it was to make it as good as a wizard, so I gave it powers that tried to make up for getting your spells slower. Also, boiling your spells down into more useful weaker spells will free up the horrible spell limitation somewhat. So basically you get to play like all those comic book characters with "Doctor" fate/strange/doom etc, when they use magic. You can cast you regular spells no problem, but casting anything outside your expertise or canceling other peoples magics, costs you more magical power.

The second thign I tried to do was make the thing more flavorful, and open to greater interpretation.

It does, however, seem to be very focused around not multi-classing. So I guess regular sorcerer with loredrake is still better for me.

Well for the record... if you take it you don't lose anything over the regular sorcerer, its essentially the same class as sorcerer with a few perks here and there.

Edit: Also... when I check back its only primordial manipulation that you lose. Further you keep that if you take 7 levels of straight sorcerer.
 I'd think that Lineage Magic and Birthright Arcana would be better than taking dead levels of sorcerer? Does the singular note to stay sorcerer offend somehow? If you're only taking 2 levels whats it hurt?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 07:50:40 PM by Midnight_v »
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sirpercival

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #88 on: October 04, 2011, 07:47:26 PM »
Ok, I'll make a quick recap on my PC.

Are you going to go with the Disciple of Boccob thing?  :)
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]

DrHorrible

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #89 on: October 04, 2011, 08:18:40 PM »
Ok, I'll make a quick recap on my PC.

Are you going to go with the Disciple of Boccob thing?  :)

I didn't see your post about it... I'll have to check all that stuff and read it carefully cause i'm not very familiar with the Binder.

Meanwhile, what can you tell me about the items I crafted so far? Are they ok?

P.s.: Disciple of Boccob is great, a no-brainer for me! Thanks!
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 08:21:54 PM by DrHorrible »
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Mixster

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #90 on: October 04, 2011, 08:46:52 PM »
If allowed, I wouldn't mind slapping on some levels of Revised Sorcerer, as it is strictly better than the classic sorcerer at the levels we will be playing. Then I probably wouldn't even need the kobold cheese.
Well I hope not! The point of it was to make it as good as a wizard, so I gave it powers that tried to make up for getting your spells slower. Also, boiling your spells down into more useful weaker spells will free up the horrible spell limitation somewhat. So basically you get to play like all those comic book characters with "Doctor" fate/strange/doom etc, when they use magic. You can cast you regular spells no problem, but casting anything outside your expertise or canceling other peoples magics, costs you more magical power.

The second thign I tried to do was make the thing more flavorful, and open to greater interpretation.

It does, however, seem to be very focused around not multi-classing. So I guess regular sorcerer with loredrake is still better for me.

Well for the record... if you take it you don't lose anything over the regular sorcerer, its essentially the same class as sorcerer with a few perks here and there.

Edit: Also... when I check back its only primordial manipulation that you lose. Further you keep that if you take 7 levels of straight sorcerer.
 I'd think that Lineage Magic and Birthright Arcana would be better than taking dead levels of sorcerer? Does the singular note to stay sorcerer offend somehow? If you're only taking 2 levels whats it hurt?

It doesn't hurt anything I just still have to Jazz it up with weird PrCs and Loredrake to make a viable Blaster, but that's to be expected.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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Midnight_v

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #91 on: October 04, 2011, 08:50:17 PM »
Quote
It doesn't hurt anything I just still have to Jazz it up with weird PrCs and Loredrake to make a viable Blaster, but that's to be expected.
Awesome, awesome. . . Hopefully the extra spell like will help you with cast as much as the focused specialists.
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sirpercival

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #92 on: October 04, 2011, 08:55:12 PM »
It doesn't hurt anything I just still have to Jazz it up with weird PrCs and Loredrake to make a viable Blaster, but that's to be expected.

I assume you saw my discussion with archangel.arcanis about making a Ultimate Magus blaster with Knight of the Weave?

With loredrake it's even easier, though without some fast talking you lose the ability to port spells over to the high-CL KotW list since you don't have a spellbook... (you need Arcane Prep to make UM work) anyway, here's the build (assuming DWK & loredrake & greater rite [you only need one extra feat over DWK to get the greater rite):

DWK Loredrake Sorc 4/KotW 1/UM 10/Archmage 5 (or War Mage, but the CL boost from Archmage is nice...)

There's no reason you can't swap out Revised Sorc, and get 7 levels of it from DWK+loredrake+greater rite.
Sorc CL = 19 levels + 3 DWK + 4 UM + 5 Archmage = 31
KotW CL = 8 levels + 31 sorc + 4 UM + 5 Archmage = 48

With Reserves of Strength you can throw down a nice 51d8 orb of force (if you can port it to KotW).  Or, you can just use Wings of Flurry, since you're a sorc.  :)
Burn all the microfiche!  Firebomb all the 8-tracks!

I'm not just a druid -- I'm a singing, dancing, Broadway druid.

[spoiler]
Quote from: PhaedrusXY
"You... saved me? So I was dismantled? I... thank you, then. I will not incinerate you."

There's only one character concept worth having, and that's the one you've thrown darts at.
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #93 on: October 04, 2011, 09:05:03 PM »
Building my sheet now. It really is amazing how quickly you can run up one skill with a few bonuses.

How does the cost of Oty. Hole come into play for the game? is it -3k from my wealth or would it be recovered as using consumable magic items would be?
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #94 on: October 04, 2011, 09:16:34 PM »
There are a few things I've been working on. First, I know my character's theme, but not much about his build. I decided to start building his background, and worked on his history with magic. He's not a sorcerer, but rather a focused wizard, so he probably went to an academy. Then I remembered these feats, and decided that he not only went to wizard school, but got a friggin higher education in magic. These are from dragon, and while all good, aren't really too powerful.
Greyhawk Method
Nexus Method
Silent Method
Sagacious Method
Arcane Shorthand

I'm interested in taking probably two, both because they're awesome and to represent his extended time learning about magic (but not, ironically enough, learning spells). He's probably going to take Magic Sensitive from complete mage at some point; yes, I'm giving divination half a fuck.

This character is surprisingly harder to build than usual...
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 09:26:43 PM by Flay Crimsonwind »

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #95 on: October 04, 2011, 09:20:41 PM »
Flay you swapped the links on Silent and Sagracious methods. Also if these are available I'd like to nab silent method simply for the extra +2 to dispel checks, assuming that it applies to all and not just illusions.

edit: oh and my sheet so far.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 09:23:53 PM by archangel.arcanis »
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #96 on: October 04, 2011, 09:29:57 PM »
Silent is +2 to dispel overall, so you'd be good to go. I wish they'd designed more of these! I would take up the challenge, but I think the last thing fullcasters need is more toys.

As far as the methods go, I was mainly looking at Greyhawk and Nexus, thinking about maybe silent. Our crafter might like Sagacious, since scrolls are cheap. Depending on our down-time to scribe in our spell-books (gotta find a way to get rid of that...) then the shorthand feat could either be useless or somewhat useful, though I doubt it would in the long run matter.

EDIT: Wow, scratch Greyhawk, which is strictly inferior to complete arcane's collegiate wizard.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 09:42:25 PM by Flay Crimsonwind »

Midnight_v

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #97 on: October 04, 2011, 09:58:28 PM »
Okay. Is the game full? I'd like to give it a go.  :D
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Mixster

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #98 on: October 04, 2011, 10:06:44 PM »
It doesn't hurt anything I just still have to Jazz it up with weird PrCs and Loredrake to make a viable Blaster, but that's to be expected.

I assume you saw my discussion with archangel.arcanis about making a Ultimate Magus blaster with Knight of the Weave?

With loredrake it's even easier, though without some fast talking you lose the ability to port spells over to the high-CL KotW list since you don't have a spellbook... (you need Arcane Prep to make UM work) anyway, here's the build (assuming DWK & loredrake & greater rite [you only need one extra feat over DWK to get the greater rite):

DWK Loredrake Sorc 4/KotW 1/UM 10/Archmage 5 (or War Mage, but the CL boost from Archmage is nice...)

There's no reason you can't swap out Revised Sorc, and get 7 levels of it from DWK+loredrake+greater rite.
Sorc CL = 19 levels + 3 DWK + 4 UM + 5 Archmage = 31
KotW CL = 8 levels + 31 sorc + 4 UM + 5 Archmage = 48

With Reserves of Strength you can throw down a nice 51d8 orb of force (if you can port it to KotW).  Or, you can just use Wings of Flurry, since you're a sorc.  :)


Nice suggestion, but I decided against going for the KotW/UM approach. I like it, but I didn't think it'd feel right for this campaign.
If both DMs will allow me caster level shenanigans, I will consider it.
If not, this is my proposed build:
DW Loredrake White Dragonspawn Kobold w/ both the draconic rites of passage.
Sorcerer 3/Force Weaver 2/War Mage 5/Force Weaver +8/Force Missile Mage 5.
The focus will be around using Arcane Fusion to pump out as many magic missile spells, where all the missiles deal (1d4+10)*1½ damage from empower, each magic missile spell will, when combined with Reserves of strength, dish out like 10 or so missiles. At the end of the day, this can lead to obscene amounts of missiles and thus an obscene amount of damage.

Do note that even though we are just level 6, I'd start with 5th level spells with this build, however, I wont be using the regular god set-up and will rather be using Arcane Fusion and Wings of Flurry to dish out obscene amount of damage, so I think it will be a fair and decent glass-cannon build.

EDIT: Looking this all over again I am wondering whether Master Spellthief + Knight of the Weave dips would be broken, I know they'll practically double my caster level. However, I am using those caster levels for Magic Missiles and stuff like that, also it would reduce me to 4th level spells at the get-go.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 10:21:12 PM by Mixster »
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Anyone want to run an All-Wizard game?
« Reply #99 on: October 04, 2011, 10:41:44 PM »
From our discussion earlier Master ST isn't a doubler. You will get to add your effective caster level from ST to each of your other classes. So unless you have a way to jack that one up before adding it to your base class that qualified for KotW it won't have a huge impact.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren